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Online nerdmann  
#1 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2012 1:16:17 PM(UTC)
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Green's been ok but disappointing.

There's been times he was swarmed under, but there have also been too many shoestring tackles and one play where he fell down untouched when an enormous hole opened up in front of him. He still got like 5 yards on that play.

There was a play by Cobb AND a play by Kuhn where each of those guys bounced off the pile after getting stuffed and gained significant yardage.

Not sure what it is, but I'd give Green one more game, then I'd start feeding Starks to see what he could do. Starks can always fall forward for 1.8 yards a carry, which is what Green averaged today.

All purpose, Green was 2.8 per touch, iirc.

And really, Kuhn is as slow as you can be and still play in the league, but with his cutting ability, he still gets yards. Give Green a little more of a shot, then Start working in Starks. If HE can't get it done, just go with Kuhn.

I'm sick of this Bjack crap.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#2 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2012 1:21:38 PM(UTC)
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Green's Production 2012 wk6? well his production this week, week 7, was crap too. I'd rather Kuhn every time.
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Online nerdmann  
#3 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2012 1:22:33 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
Green's Production 2012 wk6? well his production this week, week 7, was crap too. I'd rather Kuhn every time.


Shoulda traded for Marshawn.
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Offline wpr  
#4 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2012 1:26:28 PM(UTC)
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he did just enough to by Aaron Rodgers time to throw the ball. We are not looking for a guy who will get 150 yards rushing. He did get some key yards on passes to give them a first down. Don't make him one dimensional.
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zombieslayer on 10/21/2012(UTC)
Online nerdmann  
#5 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2012 1:27:38 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
he did just enough to by Aaron Rodgers time to throw the ball. We are not looking for a guy who will get 150 yards rushing. He did get some key yards on passes to give them a first down. Don't make him one dimensional.


All purpose, he was 2.8 per touch.

Just south of shit suckage.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#6 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2012 1:35:58 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
Shoulda traded for Marshawn.


And the pick lost would have been Casey Hayward?



Edit, correct, Seahawks gave up a 4th in 2011 and conditional in 2012.
Packers 2011 3rd rounder was Alex Green and who knows what would have been required for the conditional pick, as it would have been lesser since the round was higher.

Message modified by user Sunday, October 21, 2012 3:32:25 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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DakotaT on 10/21/2012(UTC), wpr on 10/21/2012(UTC)
Offline TheKanataThrilla  
#7 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2012 1:45:23 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
There's been times he was swarmed under, but there have also been too many shoestring tackles and one play where he fell down untouched when an enormous hole opened up in front of him. He still got like 5 yards on that play.


I'd have to check that play again, but I believe he slipped on the logo on the field. I think that happens quite often. A couple of the swarmed tackles were totally blown blocks or lack of blocks completely.

Green did pretty good last week. Is he a starting back in the NFL? No, but his role was not to be the starter going into the season. I would like to see them work Starks in a little. I am hoping his pride and desire to stay in the league will push him to play like we saw him on our Super Bowl run.



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Offline Gaycandybacon  
#8 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2012 1:47:19 PM(UTC)
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haha wow... The guy didn't do half bad. Made some great catches and got us first downs. You're to hard on him, it's his 2nd game starting for crist sake and we've won both times he's carried the rock. He's carried the ball for 40+ times in 2 games that's good enough in my book!

I think Zombie said he'd get 35 on 20 carries? The man is psychic.
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wpr on 10/21/2012(UTC), zombieslayer on 10/21/2012(UTC)
Offline DakotaT  
#9 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2012 1:54:53 PM(UTC)
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I don't know why everyone pisses and moans about the running game when we haven't had a center to run behind since Mike Flanagan. Until we draft a blue chip center, we are not going to have a legitimate running game. A couple weeks ago, I called for Saturday's head because I think we would be better served with EDS out there. Today TJ Lang had his ass handed him, so when your guard and center are getting pushed back towards the quarterback, would someone please explain to me how it is we are going to be able to rush the football?

Our Oline is built to pass block, period. It's probably a good thing we have an elite QB to build that type of Oline around, right?
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wpr on 10/21/2012(UTC)
Offline gbguy20  
#10 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2012 2:06:19 PM(UTC)
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can we play starks yet?
call me Dan
Offline wpr  
#11 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2012 2:48:02 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post

Just south of shit suckage.


nope. just north of 2-0. If they had AP or Lynch, Gore or Charles would they have won any more games?

If those backs had played for GB would they have still had the same number of yards that they got the past 2 games? nope. If they had been with GB would Aaron Rodgers had fewer yards passing? yes.
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Offline coltonja  
#12 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2012 2:51:29 PM(UTC)
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Yeah really, that small amount of yardage against such a horrible defense. The Rams don't have any talent on D...

Oh yeah- their ENTIRE d-line is made up of first round picks and they have the 5th ranked best defense in the league. 20 carries against a defensive line that was almost always in the backfield each touch, what do you expect? He does the job that we need him to do, catches the ball, doesn't funble, and changes the pace of the game.
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wpr on 10/21/2012(UTC)
Online nerdmann  
#13 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2012 2:58:58 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
I don't know why everyone pisses and moans about the running game when we haven't had a center to run behind since Mike Flanagan. Until we draft a blue chip center, we are not going to have a legitimate running game. A couple weeks ago, I called for Saturday's head because I think we would be better served with EDS out there. Today TJ Lang had his ass handed him, so when your guard and center are getting pushed back towards the quarterback, would someone please explain to me how it is we are going to be able to rush the football?

Our Oline is built to pass block, period. It's probably a good thing we have an elite QB to build that type of Oline around, right?


How'd CedBen do it?
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Offline doddpower  
#14 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2012 3:03:08 PM(UTC)
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Well, Green is still a young back with almost no starting experience. He is also coming off an ACL injury. While he may be 'healthy,' he probably doesn't have the same burst as he had pre-injury yet. That will come in time. Moreover, most the run blocking was complete shit today. There were a few holes, but Green was blown up in the backfield constantly. Could an elite back do a little more? Sure, but probably not a lot. It all starts with the run blocking and the Packer's are piss poor in that regard, unfortunately. James Starks may be able to fall forward for a few more yards sometimes, but that would likely be the only difference. I'm guessing that his toe injury is still pretty sore and the Packers are trying to get by without him to allow him to get close to 100%. They know they need him. Also, Green needs time. He'll improve as he trusts his knee more and more and the game slows down a bit. However, it's never going to get a lot better with the atrocious run blocking. It's just the way it is. At least we will be getting Benson back to get drive for a few extra yards, but that's about as good as it's going to get for Green Bay in the running game.
Offline wpr  
#15 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2012 3:37:45 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
How'd CedBen do it?


Benson has not been all THAT spectacular running the ball. He isn't the 2nd coming of Barry Sanders.

2.0 avg vs SF #12 rush defense
4.1 vs #1 Bears
2.6 vs # 6 Seattle
4.7 vs #31 NO
2.9 vs #29 Indy.

One of his 2 "good games" was against one of the worst rush defenses. the other against the best but that was probably as much about wanting to stick it to the team that let him go as anything. The Bears were off balance all day long. Pass rushing when GB was running the ball and being out of position all the time.
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Offline Gaycandybacon  
#16 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2012 3:48:50 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
How'd CedBen do it?


He didn't wow me but him and Green can do just enough. Which is better than no run game. Pass block, catch the football, and run the ball 20 plus times game. That's all we need. Do you know why other running backs gain so many yards? Because teams rely on them to much.. You rarely see in a game a QB and a RB both put up good numbers and frankly if my running back can carrie the ball a lot of times in a game I could give 2 shits if they run for 35 yards or 100 yards. Trust me.... it would be amazing if we had a 100 yard rusher from time to time but... we're a passing team! It will rarely happen as long as we have arod and the recieving core around. I believe you need a good QB to win a super bowl. Not that run the ball and play good defense crap.
Offline wpr  
#17 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2012 3:49:53 PM(UTC)
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If you had said you would like to have a RB like BenJarvus Green-Ellis who averages about 3.4 a carry this year and about 4 for his career, he can catch the pass some too, I would agree. But to say it is all Green's fault is not correct.
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Online nerdmann  
#18 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2012 3:50:33 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Gaycandybacon Go to Quoted Post
He didn't wow me but him and Green can do just enough. Which is better than no run game. Pass block, catch the football, and run the ball 20 plus times game. That's all we need. Do you know why other running backs gain so many yards? Because teams rely on them to much.. You rarely see in a game a QB and a RB both put up good numbers and frankly if my running back can carrie the ball a lot of times in a game I could give 2 shits if they run for 35 yards or 100 yards. Trust me.... it would be amazing if we had a 100 yard rusher from time to time but... we're a passing team! It will rarely happen as long as we have arod and the recieving core around. I believe you need a good QB to win a super bowl. Not that run the ball and play good defense crap.


Maybe they do it, because they can break shoestring tackles and have sufficient vision to see daylight.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#19 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2012 3:52:22 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
If you had said you would like to have a RB like BenJarvus Green-Ellis who averages about 3.4 a carry this year and about 4 for his career, he can catch the pass some too, I would agree. But to say it is all Green's fault is not correct.


Two fumbles lost in six games out of three fumbles and only once had a yards per carry over 4.0 wets your whistle?
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Offline wpr  
#20 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2012 3:57:04 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
Two fumbles lost in six games out of three fumbles and only once had a yards per carry over 4.0 wets your whistle?


He had over 500 carries over 5 years without any fumbles before his 3 this season. I am saying GB doesn't need Lynch to be successful.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#21 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2012 4:01:39 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
He had over 500 carries over 5 years without any fumbles before his 3 this season. I am saying GB doesn't need Lynch to be successful.


He hasn't had 500 carries this season so that is not relevant to my response. It was a bad player to use.

Packers need a RB who
Always gets positive yards, even if its 1 yard.
Never fumbles
Superb pass protection
Average and above receiving out of backfield


Those are dime a dozen!!! Big Grin
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Offline wpr  
#22 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2012 4:22:40 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
He hasn't had 500 carries this season so that is not relevant to my response. It was a bad player to use.

Packers need a RB who
Always gets positive yards, even if its 1 yard.
Never fumbles
Superb pass protection
Average and above receiving out of backfield


Those are dime a dozen!!! Big Grin


don't be such a fn ass.

I intentionally used an average, vanilla player to say GB can still win with someone like that. They don't need Lynch which was nermann's original premise.

And Green-Ellis' prior career abilities do matter because I say the do. he is my example not yours. you want to twist what I am saying by taking a small sample size. I prefer to use his whole career because it is a better indicator of his abilities and a couple of weeks this year.

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Offline Gaycandybacon  
#23 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2012 4:37:24 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
He hasn't had 500 carries this season so that is not relevant to my response. It was a bad player to use.

Packers need a RB who
Always gets positive yards, even if its 1 yard. Theres not 1 back in the NFL that ALWAYS gets positive yards...
Never fumbles We've never fumbled once this year to my knowledge and rarely fumbled in the past
Superb pass protection Been pretty good so far from a RBs POV
Average and above receiving out of backfield Bang Head We have Cobb that does that, plus Green and Kuhn shown that ablity even todays game
Those are dime a dozen!!! Big Grin
Offline Packfan87  
#24 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2012 6:36:37 PM(UTC)
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I'm not sure what to take of Green yet. I like what I've seen from him as far as pass protection and receiving out of the backfield but he's also left a lot of yards on the field(tripping etc...).

All in all I don't think we can make a fair assessment of a player after two games in what is essentially his rookie season.
Offline RaiderPride  
#25 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2012 7:14:20 PM(UTC)
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My opine. I think I am close to being sorta right.

Every team has a structure for what talents and production they need out of a running back. It varies based on the QB, the team strengths, and of course the O-Line that that team has in a particular season, or reign.

For example.. Pretend you could take any running back in history and put him in this years starting line up. Who would you put in as the starter?

Kevin my friend.. Please do not say Barry Sanders. That would be the wrong answer, even though he is the most exciting of all time.

For this present Packer offence, structure, and O line... If I could pick any running back in history to put in the 2012 line up....I would put Earl Campbell in the line up rather than Barry Sanders. Eric Dickerson, Gayle Sayers, O.J. Simpson, most anyone else...

I reckon what I am saying is every offence has different skills they need out of a running back.

OK.. Go ahead now.. Trash my theory : )

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