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Offline macbob  
#41 Posted : Monday, October 22, 2012 3:16:36 PM(UTC)
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I agree that Green is good enough. Give him more opportunity and he'll get better.

Disagree with Zombie that yards don't matter. They do matter--if everytime you ran the ball the play went for a touchdown you'd attract a LOT of attention to your running game. If everytime you run it goes for -10, not so much.

So, production in the running game has SOME impact on attracting the D's attention away from your passing game--the better the production the more distracting.

What production do you need to gain to get the D's attention? I'm not sure, and I'm not even sure how you'd come up with the stats to support a minimum yards per carry.

My expectation is that it would vary based on the situation during the game--if you're winning by 20 the D may be paying more attention to the run because they expect you to run more. If you're down by 20 then it will take a LOT more production from the running game to distract the D from your passing game.

In any event, Green kept the D honest this week, even with the low yards-per-carry.

Message modified by user Thursday, October 25, 2012 2:08:50 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline wpr  
#42 Posted : Monday, October 22, 2012 6:08:54 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: macbob Go to Quoted Post

What production do you need to gain to get the D's attention? I'm not sure, and I'm not even sure how you'd come up with the stats to support a minimum yards per carry.



I agree the score and time left int he game will matter but in general I would say it is somewhere between 1.8 and 3.0 avg.

Code:

HOU 	22 	65 	3.0
STL 	20 	35 	1.8 
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Offline zombieslayer  
#43 Posted : Monday, October 22, 2012 8:44:39 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: macbob Go to Quoted Post
I agree that Green is good enough. Give him more opportunity and he'll get better.

Disagree with Zombie that yards don't matter. They do matter--if everytime you ran the ball the play went for a touchdown you'd attract a LOT of attention to your running game. If everytime you run it goes for -10, not so much.

So, production in the running game has SOME impact on attracting the D's attention away from your passing game--the better the production the more distracting.

What production do you need to gain to get the D's attention? I'm not sure, and I'm not even sure how you'd come up with the stats to support a minimum yards per carry.

My expectation is that it would vary based on the situation during the game--if you're winning by 20 the D may be paying more attention to the run because they expect you to run more. If you're down by 20 then it will take a LOT more production from the running game to distract the D from your passing game.

In any event, Green kept the D honest this week, even with the low runs-per-carry.


Wait. Now I'm not getting what you're saying.

You're saying that Green kept the D honest this week, even with the low runs-per-carry. That, we agree on.

But you're saying I'm wrong about the yards not mattering. How much worse can you get than 35 yards on 20 carries? Was there any RB in the NFL in the 2012 season that got such crappy production on 20 carries? Anyone? Beuller?

If anything, THAT just proved my point. The yards don't matter. 35 yards on 20 carries is downright awful. Which is great from my perspective, because we got our carries, and with such crappy production, Green can't go to Ted Thompson with a straight face and say "Hey Uncle Ted, I want $1 million a year or else I'll sign with the Buffalo Bills." The usually stone faced Uncle Ted will wet himself laughing.

And this is exactly the scenario The Zombieslayer wants - a crappy RB who can run the ball 20+ times a game and doesn't fumble. Bonus if he's a good blocker. Secondary bonus if he's a good receiver.
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Offline RaiderPride  
#44 Posted : Monday, October 22, 2012 9:49:08 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan Go to Quoted Post
I'm just thinking to myself, wonder what Ryan Grant is thinking.
Probably, man I feel sorry for that kid, I put up 1200+ yds a yr. before I was injured and most wanted me gone, this kid has no chance. Oh well better him than me.


Perhaps... But if Ryan Grant is honest to himself, he is most likely thinking...

Thank GOD the Packers pulled me out of a failed football career, by plucking me out of a practice squad, and giving me an opportunity. An opportunity to step into a position that 12 other practice squad running backs would have produced the numbers as I did. Thank God I had the opportunity to be over paid by screwing the Packers and holding them hostage due to the turmoil the team was in during my contract negotiations.



""People Will Probably Never Remember What You Said, And May Never Remember What You Did. However, People Will Always Remember How You Made Them Feel."
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wpr on 10/23/2012(UTC)
Offline Gaycandybacon  
#45 Posted : Monday, October 22, 2012 10:01:29 PM(UTC)
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I just don't know what peoples expectations are anymore... Ecspecially expectations for a passing team. People should realise our short passing game is our running game. Dumpoffs, Running back screens, option to run or throw a bubble screen etc. etc. They all help us move the chains. Kuhn, Cobb, and Green all excell at this. We dominated the TOP with these types of things sunday. Some of you guys should know yards don't tell the whole story. Running for big yards is overrated.

Would you rather have Adrain Peterson or Aaron Rodgers win you games? Choose wisely boys.
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RaiderPride on 10/22/2012(UTC), wpr on 10/23/2012(UTC), zombieslayer on 10/23/2012(UTC)
Offline RaiderPride  
#46 Posted : Monday, October 22, 2012 10:17:30 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Gaycandybacon Go to Quoted Post
I just don't know what peoples expectations are anymore... Ecspecially expectations for a passing team. People should realise our short passing game is our running game. Dumpoffs, Running back screens, option to run or throw a bubble screen etc. etc. They all help us move the chains. Kuhn, Cobb, and Green all excell at this. We dominated the TOP with these types of things sunday. Some of you guys should know yards don't tell the whole story. Running for big yards is overrated.

Would you rather have Adrain Peterson or Aaron Rodgers win you games? Choose wisely boys.


I will not only applaud your thinking and logic.. I shall re-post it.

Mike and the coaches/coordinators have excelled in mastering the T.O.P. (Time Of Possession) mastery in the second half of the last two games.

""People Will Probably Never Remember What You Said, And May Never Remember What You Did. However, People Will Always Remember How You Made Them Feel."
Offline nerdmann  
#47 Posted : Monday, October 22, 2012 10:46:02 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Gaycandybacon Go to Quoted Post
I just don't know what peoples expectations are anymore... Ecspecially expectations for a passing team. People should realise our short passing game is our running game. Dumpoffs, Running back screens, option to run or throw a bubble screen etc. etc. They all help us move the chains. Kuhn, Cobb, and Green all excell at this. We dominated the TOP with these types of things sunday. Some of you guys should know yards don't tell the whole story. Running for big yards is overrated.

Would you rather have Adrain Peterson or Aaron Rodgers win you games? Choose wisely boys.


I'm all for short, high percentage passing. That's classic WCO.

Unfortunately Mike McCarthy prefers a vertical "Run and Shoot" philosophy, which doesn't include much consideration for ToP. Oh yeah, and also with zone blocking. lol
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
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TheKanataThrilla on 10/23/2012(UTC)
Offline Gaycandybacon  
#48 Posted : Monday, October 22, 2012 11:21:51 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
I'm all for short, high percentage passing. That's classic WCO.

Unfortunately Mike McCarthy prefers a vertical "Run and Shoot" philosophy, which doesn't include much consideration for ToP. Oh yeah, and also with zone blocking. lol


I think Mike likes an Up Tempo Versitle Offense. He challanges the Offensive players to play in any formation, and expects them to execute in every one of the plays. It's not so much run it once then hope for the best and throw down field. He plays to situational football. When he gets an oppurtunity he will take his shots. Sure the Offense was not performing well for a couple of games. But in the last 2 games I say we've put together the fourmula to win each time. Pass the ball and keep the flow of the game at a fast pace keeping that defense off balanced. And we balance that passing game with tons of carries and effective short passing. Give Green and company a few games to get this run game going. It'll get better.
Offline steveishere  
#49 Posted : Tuesday, October 23, 2012 4:10:17 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
I can't say we can't run, we never even line up to try.

I can think of One attempt and it was a Rodgers sneak. And we have been in some 3rd and <1yard. We get 3rd and 1 and we go 5 wide. That is what pisses me off.


GB has been pretty good as far as I know in recent years at converting 3rd downs. So long as they convert why should it piss you off how they did it?
thanks Post received 2 applause.
wpr on 10/23/2012(UTC), zombieslayer on 10/23/2012(UTC)
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#50 Posted : Tuesday, October 23, 2012 5:53:49 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
GB has been pretty good as far as I know in recent years at converting 3rd downs. So long as they convert why should it piss you off how they did it?


We have been good at 3rd downs, but not at 3rd and short. On pass plays in general, we drop about 13% on 3rd & <2 from 3rd and 3-7. NFL wide, 70% conversion when running on 3rd & 1, 58% passing. Kuhn alone is almost 80% on his attempts at 3rd/4th and 1.

Not saying we have to run on them all. But at least line up and make it look like we might, and use the odds to give us what ever advantage we can get. When we go shotgun and empty the back field, it takes the option completely away.
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thanks Post received 1 applause.
TheKanataThrilla on 10/23/2012(UTC)
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