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Originally Posted by: Gaycandybacon  I just don't know what peoples expectations are anymore... Ecspecially expectations for a passing team. People should realise our short passing game is our running game. Dumpoffs, Running back screens, option to run or throw a bubble screen etc. etc. They all help us move the chains. Kuhn, Cobb, and Green all excell at this. We dominated the TOP with these types of things sunday. Some of you guys should know yards don't tell the whole story. Running for big yards is overrated.
Would you rather have Adrain Peterson or Aaron Rodgers win you games? Choose wisely boys. I will not only applaud your thinking and logic.. I shall re-post it. Mike and the coaches/coordinators have excelled in mastering the T.O.P. (Time Of Possession) mastery in the second half of the last two games. |
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Originally Posted by: Gaycandybacon I just don't know what peoples expectations are anymore... Ecspecially expectations for a passing team. People should realise our short passing game is our running game. Dumpoffs, Running back screens, option to run or throw a bubble screen etc. etc. They all help us move the chains. Kuhn, Cobb, and Green all excell at this. We dominated the TOP with these types of things sunday. Some of you guys should know yards don't tell the whole story. Running for big yards is overrated.
Would you rather have Adrain Peterson or Aaron Rodgers win you games? Choose wisely boys. I'm all for short, high percentage passing. That's classic WCO. Unfortunately Mike McCarthy prefers a vertical "Run and Shoot" philosophy, which doesn't include much consideration for ToP. Oh yeah, and also with zone blocking. lol |
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.” |
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann I'm all for short, high percentage passing. That's classic WCO.
Unfortunately Mike McCarthy prefers a vertical "Run and Shoot" philosophy, which doesn't include much consideration for ToP. Oh yeah, and also with zone blocking. lol I think Mike likes an Up Tempo Versitle Offense. He challanges the Offensive players to play in any formation, and expects them to execute in every one of the plays. It's not so much run it once then hope for the best and throw down field. He plays to situational football. When he gets an oppurtunity he will take his shots. Sure the Offense was not performing well for a couple of games. But in the last 2 games I say we've put together the fourmula to win each time. Pass the ball and keep the flow of the game at a fast pace keeping that defense off balanced. And we balance that passing game with tons of carries and effective short passing. Give Green and company a few games to get this run game going. It'll get better.
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins I can't say we can't run, we never even line up to try.
I can think of One attempt and it was a Rodgers sneak. And we have been in some 3rd and <1yard. We get 3rd and 1 and we go 5 wide. That is what pisses me off. GB has been pretty good as far as I know in recent years at converting 3rd downs. So long as they convert why should it piss you off how they did it?
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Originally Posted by: steveishere GB has been pretty good as far as I know in recent years at converting 3rd downs. So long as they convert why should it piss you off how they did it? We have been good at 3rd downs, but not at 3rd and short. On pass plays in general, we drop about 13% on 3rd & <2 from 3rd and 3-7. NFL wide, 70% conversion when running on 3rd & 1, 58% passing. Kuhn alone is almost 80% on his attempts at 3rd/4th and 1. Not saying we have to run on them all. But at least line up and make it look like we might, and use the odds to give us what ever advantage we can get. When we go shotgun and empty the back field, it takes the option completely away. |
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Mike McCarthy wrote:I wasn’t real happy with the production in the run game. I thought we left too many hard yards on the field. There were too many 1, 2-yard runs that should have been hardball 3, 4, 5-yard runs. We need to improve that aspect of our offense. |
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins We have been good at 3rd downs, but not at 3rd and short. On pass plays in general, we drop about 13% on 3rd & <2 from 3rd and 3-7. If Mike McCarthy is such the stats guy maybe we should false start on 3rd and short to increase our chances at the first down.  |
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Rodgers seems to be a little more patient the last two games throwing short 5-6 yard passes and swing passes that pick up 12-15 yards. Ala WCO. This can be as effective as a good running game and Green contributes to that. Don't get me wrong I too would like us to add a good running game to our arsenal. But until that happens we have to do what we can. |
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Originally Posted by: Gaycandybacon I just don't know what peoples expectations are anymore... Ecspecially expectations for a passing team. People should realise our short passing game is our running game. Dumpoffs, Running back screens, option to run or throw a bubble screen etc. etc. They all help us move the chains. Kuhn, Cobb, and Green all excell at this. We dominated the TOP with these types of things sunday. Some of you guys should know yards don't tell the whole story. Running for big yards is overrated.
Would you rather have Adrain Peterson or Aaron Rodgers win you games? Choose wisely boys. Wish I could give you more than one applause point for this. We are a passing team. And we will remain a passing team as long as  is our QB and  is our Coach. Run just enough to keep the opposing D honest and to give our D a rest, blah blah blah, but we're a passing team. We win games by throwing the ball well, not by running the football. Give an elite receiving set. Who cares who's running the football as long as he doesn't fumble? Bonus if he can block. Bonus if he's a good receiver. I'd rather have Alex Green and than Adrian Peterson and Christian Ponder. With some of you folks, I seriously question if you'd want it the other way around. |
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Originally Posted by: PackerTraxx Rodgers seems to be a little more patient the last two games throwing short 5-6 yard passes and swing passes that pick up 12-15 yards. Ala WCO. This can be as effective as a good running game and Green contributes to that. Don't get me wrong I too would like us to add a good running game to our arsenal. But until that happens we have to do what we can. All purpose, Green was 2.8 per touch. |
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First 1/2 of the game, of 26 real plays (not counting clocking). 21 plays from shotgun, 5 from conventional.
Second 1/2 of the game, 23 plays shotgun, 17 conventional.
Second half was better, but when you are in shotgun that often, it makes it difficult on the Oline, and makes running harder. There are very few options in the run game out of shotgun. which leaves very few things defense has to worry about. No fear of a run game, and QB in a predictable depth to rush at allows defense to be very aggressive in their pass rush.
We need more standard formations, use 1 and 3 step drops, on some quick plays. Run the ball forwards instead of sideways.
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All that is needed with the rules as they are is the threat of the run to assist the offense, I could roll onto the soapbox again, but as ZS says.. Blah, Blah, Blah. If you haven't heard it here enough, well before the pundits, well then continue on as you wish.
We should be a pass heavy team with our talent and the rules as they are.
I spent a couple hours compiling the numbers during Rodgers tenure, those numbers don't lie. 80% of the games in which we run the ball with the backs 20 times.. we win. Garbage time (4 Qtr) runs only see a 2% increase over the number of carries of the next highest quarter.
We only win at a clip of ~45% of the time when we don't run the ball with the backs 20 times.
I will take 80% over 45% any day of the week, including and especially Sundays. :) |
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann All purpose, Green was 2.8 per touch. they aught to release the bum. he's worthless. who cares that they are 2-0 in his starts. who cares if the OL is culpable for his numbers. who cares that 8 of his 12 carries were in the 4th quarter with GB milking the clock and the rams expecting the run. it is all green's fault that GB lost. Oh wait... never mind. |
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z All that is needed with the rules as they are is the threat of the run to assist the offense, I could roll onto the soapbox again, but as ZS says.. Blah, Blah, Blah. If you haven't heard it here enough, well before the pundits, well then continue on as you wish.
We should be a pass heavy team with our talent and the rules as they are.
I spent a couple hours compiling the numbers during Rodgers tenure, those numbers don't lie. 80% of the games in which we run the ball with the backs 20 times.. we win. Garbage time (4 Qtr) runs only see a 2% increase over the number of carries of the next highest quarter.
We only win at a clip of ~45% of the time when we don't run the ball with the backs 20 times.
I will take 80% over 45% any day of the week, including and especially Sundays. :) Yes. Thus 20 carries for 35 yards by Green is perfect. Do that all season long and we'll be fighting for Playoff position. |
My man Donald Driver (thanks to Pack93z for the pic) 2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. |
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins First 1/2 of the game, of 26 real plays (not counting clocking). 21 plays from shotgun, 5 from conventional.
Second 1/2 of the game, 23 plays shotgun, 17 conventional.
Second half was better, but when you are in shotgun that often, it makes it difficult on the Oline, and makes running harder. There are very few options in the run game out of shotgun. which leaves very few things defense has to worry about. No fear of a run game, and QB in a predictable depth to rush at allows defense to be very aggressive in their pass rush.
We need more standard formations, use 1 and 3 step drops, on some quick plays. Run the ball forwards instead of sideways.
A team can still do power runs from a shotgun formation. Personally, I'd like to see more of those. It'd be nice to see Lang and/or Sitton pulling and mauling defensive players.
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