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Offline beast  
#21 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2012 11:34:48 AM(UTC)
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I like the idea of a fake but have some other problems with play they picked.


1) They faked a run but sliding him to his left... that might be fine if he was an experienced passer... but as far as I know he's not, why not tell him to stay put so he can focus on proper foot placement, which leads to a better pass.

2) Why did they put in two kickers? That didn't make sense to me.

2a) If they're doing it off of a fake FG kick they could of put Cobb in as the holder (Cobb has been the holders and still is the back-up holder) also Cobb has played the wild cat QB in college and has also thrown some WR passes in college, and much more of a threat to run it and get away from a pass rush. Also I think Cobb is left handed just like the punter.

2b) If they did it off of a fake Punt they wouldn't of had to put in Crosby, who I think most people didn't think was a threat to be thrown to.
Offline Pack93z  
#22 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2012 11:41:03 AM(UTC)
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Do you not think if they put Harrell or Cobb in to hold for the kick that the Jags might have read that something is up?

thanks Post received 1 applause.
Zero2Cool on 10/30/2012(UTC)
Offline Porforis  
#23 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2012 11:42:53 AM(UTC)
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beast said: Go to Quoted Post
I like the idea of a fake but have some other problems with play they picked.


1) They faked a run but sliding him to his left... that might be fine if he was an experienced passer... but as far as I know he's not, why not tell him to stay put so he can focus on proper foot placement, which leads to a better pass.

2) Why did they put in two kickers? That didn't make sense to me.

2a) If they're doing it off of a fake FG kick they could of put Cobb in as the holder (Cobb has been the holders and still is the back-up holder) also Cobb has played the wild cat QB in college and has also thrown some WR passes in college, and much more of a threat to run it and get away from a pass rush. Also I think Cobb is left handed just like the punter.

2b) If they did it off of a fake Punt they wouldn't of had to put in Crosby, who I think most people didn't think was a threat to be thrown to.


1. Masthay is the normal holder unless I'm crazy
2. Putting Cobb in there immediately tips off the special teams to trickery. By leaving Masthay in there rather than sending Cobb back to pass, it's much more believable that they were just going to punt it away. With Cobb back there, it's obvious they're trying to pick up the first down. Maybe they could try sneaking him in elsewhere in the formation, have Masthay lateral it to him if nobody's wide open right away and let Cobb decide whether he's going to run with it or pass it. But that's too complicated of a play IMO.
3. Masthay's not a terrible passer, in fact his other NFL throw resulted in a TD for what that's worth. He just didn't make a great read, and tried making a very difficult pass. The pass itself looked good, just way underthrown because he was throwing it something like 15 yards deep across the length of the field. He might not be a terrible passer, but he's still a punter, he's going to have a noodle arm.
Offline wpr  
#24 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2012 12:09:02 PM(UTC)
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Porforis said: Go to Quoted Post
1. Masthay is the normal holder unless I'm crazy
2. Putting Cobb in there immediately tips off the special teams to trickery. By leaving Masthay in there rather than sending Cobb back to pass, it's much more believable that they were just going to punt it away. With Cobb back there, it's obvious they're trying to pick up the first down. Maybe they could try sneaking him in elsewhere in the formation, have Masthay lateral it to him if nobody's wide open right away and let Cobb decide whether he's going to run with it or pass it. But that's too complicated of a play IMO.
3. Masthay's not a terrible passer, in fact his other NFL throw resulted in a TD for what that's worth. He just didn't make a great read, and tried making a very difficult pass. The pass itself looked good, just way underthrown because he was throwing it something like 15 yards deep across the length of the field. He might not be a terrible passer, but he's still a punter, he's going to have a noodle arm.


agreed. Cobb as the holder would have changed the coverage personnel. They would have potentially changed personnel if they say Cobb on the field anyway. After reviewing 100 other kick formations without Cobb would have meant something was up.
Offline yooperfan  
#25 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2012 12:27:08 PM(UTC)
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It made one of the top 5 dumbest decisions on "Mike and Mike".
Offline beast  
#26 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2012 12:46:46 PM(UTC)
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Pack93z said: Go to Quoted Post
Do you not think if they put Harrell or Cobb in to hold for the kick that the Jags might have read that something is up?


Do you think the Jags are stupid enough not to know something is up when Tim Masthay stands up in shotgun and Crosby and the others spread out? The set-up TOLD the other team something is up. You could of had anybody in there and the Jags would of known something was up when they switched to the different set up.

So

1) The set-up told them something was up no matter the player

2) The Packers have been able to sneak Flynn into a couple different ST plays, why would Cobb be different?

3) Even if it's not Cobb, faking a punt and putting someone in there besides Crosby would of still be better set-up.

Porforis said: Go to Quoted Post
1. Masthay is the normal holder unless I'm crazy
2. Putting Cobb in there immediately tips off the special teams to trickery. By leaving Masthay in there rather than sending Cobb back to pass, it's much more believable that they were just going to punt it away. With Cobb back there, it's obvious they're trying to pick up the first down. Maybe they could try sneaking him in elsewhere in the formation, have Masthay lateral it to him if nobody's wide open right away and let Cobb decide whether he's going to run with it or pass it. But that's too complicated of a play IMO.
3. Masthay's not a terrible passer, in fact his other NFL throw resulted in a TD for what that's worth. He just didn't make a great read, and tried making a very difficult pass. The pass itself looked good, just way underthrown because he was throwing it something like 15 yards deep across the length of the field. He might not be a terrible passer, but he's still a punter, he's going to have a noodle arm.



1) I agree Masthay is the normal holder.

2) If they see Cobb, then yes maybe... but Cobb is also the back-up holder, and they could sneak him in just like they did with Flynn.

And the set-up gave it away that it was a trick when they spread everyone out and the punter stood up. Why would you have a kicker as a gunner? It was clearly a trick after that.

3) His touchdown pass was what, a 5 yard screen pass with a long run?

Also I think it's fine with Masthay passing it, my problem with that was putting him motion and then asking him to pass it. To me it wasn't a noodle arm pass, it was a pass off his back foot, while leaning back-wards and the wrong way. If you're going to ask a kicker to pass it, keep them in the pocket (unless they're good with their footwork on the run, which was one of the problems (also that he had a rusher in his face, but if he stayed put, the blocker would of been between him and the rusher, and he wouldn't of had to rush the pass.)


Offline Porforis  
#27 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2012 12:51:05 PM(UTC)
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My point is that while it's obvious that it's a trick play when they change formations, it's NOT obvious that they're going to try to go for the first when you send your punter back in shotgun formation in a spot in the field where a punt would be ideal. The second Cobb is back in shotgun, any doubt is completely eliminated. As far as Crosby going out wide as a gunner, where else is he supposed to go in that formation where he's less likely to get killed?
thanks Post received 1 applause.
wpr on 10/30/2012(UTC)
Offline Pack93z  
#28 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2012 12:54:43 PM(UTC)
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beast said: Go to Quoted Post
Do you think the Jags are stupid enough not to know something is up when Tim Masthay stands up in shotgun and Crosby and the others spread out? The set-up TOLD the other team something is up. You could of had anybody in there and the Jags would of known something was up when they switched to the different set up.

So

1) The set-up told them something was up no matter the player

2) The Packers have been able to sneak Flynn into a couple different ST plays, why would Cobb be different?

3) Even if it's not Cobb, faking a punt and putting someone in there besides Crosby would of still be better set-up.



It was about personnel grouping on the Jags part... so.. they didn't shift until after the players are set.. so by trotting out Mastay, the Packers apparently liked the match ups with the personnel on the field. The benefit of even trotting out the unit.. to gain the personnel advantage, or what they perceived to be so.

Otherwise.. if you are just going to go for it.. then why not have your best players on the field.. with Rodgers leading the play?



thanks Post received 1 applause.
wpr on 10/30/2012(UTC)
Offline beast  
#29 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2012 12:56:39 PM(UTC)
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yooperfan said: Go to Quoted Post
It made one of the top 5 dumbest decisions on "Mike and Mike".


Hiring Mike Greenberg for that should of been one as well...
okay maybe not really...

But the guy bugs the crap out of me, giving a 5 to 10 minute blow by blow of what they've already covered after every commercial break... the people that have been listening don't need it because they heard you the first time...

And I don't mind a recap.... but not after you come back from every single break, and they don't need to be so long.


Also he doesn't know sports...

nor would he let his kid order french fries for breakfast at ihop, you know the important stuff jk
Offline beast  
#30 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2012 1:01:24 PM(UTC)
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Porforis said: Go to Quoted Post
My point is that while it's obvious that it's a trick play when they change formations, it's NOT obvious that they're going to try to go for the first when you send your punter back in shotgun formation in a spot in the field where a punt would be ideal. The second Cobb is back in shotgun, any doubt is completely eliminated. As far as Crosby going out wide as a gunner, where else is he supposed to go in that formation where he's less likely to get killed?

I agree with what you're saying about Cobb there.

My point is simply they already raised red flags by going from a FG look to a Shot gun / punting look... that red flag got them thinking.

If they wanted to pass out of the punt look, they should of started in the punt look with Crosby on the bench (which he's even less likely to get killed)



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