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Offline beast  
#31 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2012 1:07:58 PM(UTC)
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Pack93z said: Go to Quoted Post
It was about personnel grouping on the Jags part... so.. they didn't shift until after the players are set.. so by trotting out Mastay, the Packers apparently liked the match ups with the personnel on the field. The benefit of even trotting out the unit.. to gain the personnel advantage, or what they perceived to be so.

Otherwise.. if you are just going to go for it.. then why not have your best players on the field.. with Rodgers leading the play?


I'm fine with that... I still disagree with rolling Masthay to the left and having Crosby on the field, I think if they wanted a Masthay pass, a fake punt would of been better than a fake FG, into a fake punt...


I'm guessing you would make an argument that the Jags FG rush team might be easier to make a play on then the Jag Punt rush team, but I think the fake FG switch gave it away.

If they were going to try a fake FG into a fake Punt into a pass play, they should of done a couple of fake FGs into a real punt first... at least one...
Offline Porforis  
#32 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2012 1:12:39 PM(UTC)
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beast said: Go to Quoted Post
I agree with what you're saying about Cobb there.

My point is simply they already raised red flags by going from a FG look to a Shot gun / punting look... that red flag got them thinking.

If they wanted to pass out of the punt look, they should of started in the punt look with Crosby on the bench (which he's even less likely to get killed)


I still say it's just as obvious from the punt formation if you send Cobb back there in Masthay's place. 5-10 black guy doesn't do a great 6'1" white guy impression. I guess one upside to starting with Cobb in the punt formation that I didn't consider before was that if they make it REAL obvious that they're going to go for it and it takes them at least a few seconds to realize what's up, it's that much more likely that they're going to call a timeout because of personnel, matchup issues.

Kind of a moot point here as we'll never know for sure, but this might have been a situation where the Packers saw something on film that shows the Jaguars have problems with getting their special teams personnel in order or tend to have slower players on their field goal unit that are exploitable. By starting in field goal formation, then shifting to an offensive formation this prevents any last-second substitutions and it's much more likely that you're going to be able to get set before the defenders than if you start in the offensive formation.
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#33 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2012 1:29:41 PM(UTC)
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Best option IMO for a fake in that situation, would have been to line up in Punt formation, with Cobb as the personal protector with Kuhn out. Then shift Masthay from the normal punt depth to standard Shotgun. Shifting the rest how ever to create a pass formation crabtee, boykin, cobb, DJ. That would make the defense think about Cobb, and if nothing looks right, snap the ball and quick kick it, if it looks good, go for it.
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Pack93z on 10/30/2012(UTC)
Offline beast  
#34 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2012 1:31:48 PM(UTC)
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Porforis said: Go to Quoted Post
I still say it's just as obvious from the punt formation if you send Cobb back there in Masthay's place. 5-10 black guy doesn't do a great 6'1" white guy impression. I guess one upside to starting with Cobb in the punt formation that I didn't consider before was that if they make it REAL obvious that they're going to go for it and it takes them at least a few seconds to realize what's up, it's that much more likely that they're going to call a timeout because of personnel, matchup issues.

Kind of a moot point here as we'll never know for sure, but this might have been a situation where the Packers saw something on film that shows the Jaguars have problems with getting their special teams personnel in order or tend to have slower players on their field goal unit that are exploitable. By starting in field goal formation, then shifting to an offensive formation this prevents any last-second substitutions and it's much more likely that you're going to be able to get set before the defenders than if you start in the offensive formation.



I don't think you understand what I was saying... I meant Cobb at holder in the fake FG look, OR just out of the punt look with no Cobb. My point is one kicker on the field... not both.

Also I'd be for a fake FG into a real punt... as long as they got a speedsters to get down the field fast to down that thing. I wouldn't want to see Crosby going for a tackle (which he would, and one of the reasons I like him, he's willing to try his best to make the tackles if they come close enough to him).

Offline Porforis  
#35 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2012 1:35:56 PM(UTC)
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PackFanWithTwins said: Go to Quoted Post
Best option IMO for a fake in that situation, would have been to line up in Punt formation, with Cobb as the personal protector with Kuhn out. Then shift Masthay from the normal punt depth to standard Shotgun. Shifting the rest how ever to create a pass formation crabtee, boykin, cobb, DJ. That would make the defense think about Cobb, and if nothing looks right, snap the ball and quick kick it, if it looks good, go for it.


Agreed that if you're going to do a passing play from the punt formation, that's the best way to do it. Disguise Cobb as best as you can for as long as you can. Heck, I'd fake a run to Cobb then pass it. I'd assume the defense would note Cobb and pay more attention to him than anyone else.
Offline macbob  
#36 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2012 1:49:03 PM(UTC)
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I'm a nay, but more on the what it says about our team/approach to the Jags game vs the play call/execution itself.

Obviously, we spent time in practice working on that play--we didn't just whip it out during the game. We're going against a team that we're favored to whip by more than two touchdowns and we're working on cutesy trick plays?

I can't shake the feeling that we weren't taking the Jags all that seriously in advance of the game, and this makes me feel like it was starting from the coaching staff on down.
Offline MontanaBob  
#37 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2012 3:41:01 PM(UTC)
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As a holder waaaay back in college, I was one for one on fake field goal passes. This was directly off the snap...we were in field goal formation and did not shift.

Unfortunately, my pass was a Pick Six for 70 yards against Utah State, in Ogden , Utah. Didn't matter, we still got crushed 49-17.
Offline Scythe  
#38 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2012 3:55:12 PM(UTC)
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I found the play I was talking about earlier.


Maybe Harrell should have taken the snap.
Offline RajiRoar  
#39 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2012 4:37:49 PM(UTC)
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IMO



1. If you MUST fake it, use players in a role they are familiar with.. ex. Kuhn up the middle, fake pass from Flynn (or Harrell) last year. Don't let the punter chuck it.. although we all know Jon Ryan was a RB trapped in a punter's body.

2. Just leave Aaron Rodgers out there.

3. Just leave Aaron Rodgers out there.

4. Punting and FGs are not bad things in most cases.
Offline beast  
#40 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2012 7:57:15 PM(UTC)
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Why do we even take Rodgers off the field for 4th down? ... just let him pass it and we'll get the 1st down Laugh
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