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Offline gbguy20  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, October 31, 2012 9:55:35 PM(UTC)
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fuck this bring back samkon gado
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Porforis on 11/2/2012(UTC)
Offline Zero2Cool  
#17 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 4:42:16 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: porky88 Go to Quoted Post
I recall Starks having poor practice habits in the past. Someone may want to check me on that, but I think it was just after his debut against San Francisco in 2010, and he received poor reviews this training camp. In fact, his lack of progress is what prompted Green Bay to go and sign Cedric Benson. Perhaps Starks is just game day player with a poor practice routine. Regardless, Alex Green isn't getting it done and it wouldn't hurt to work Starks into the game plan more.


Yes sir, I also mentioned the practice habits earlier in this thread. I've noticed when Mike McCarthy speaks on Alex Green, it almost seems like the things he over states are meant for James Starks ears. "He practices VERY well" ... then you almost hear "James, you hear why Alex is playing and you're not?" lol

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SINCITYCHEEZE on 11/1/2012(UTC), porky88 on 11/1/2012(UTC)
Offline zombieslayer  
#18 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 9:19:33 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
Here is my thought on the topic.. why not Starks.

This is with the premise that we are marching forward with the stable we have.

Starks has not been a model of durability in college nor the pros.. but he has playoff experience under his belt. So he provides value as the playoff push and run draw closer, hence his still being on the roster.

But I think the Packers are trying to protect him somewhat so he is fresh towards the end of the year and in the push. Benson is a maybe on his return at best, that injury is just that unpredictable. Increasing Starks value in the postseason.

So the Packers are feeding Green the ball currently with hopes that experience leads to performance improvement. Green was a one cut hole reading back in college, to write his vision off already is premature in my eyes. He isn't going to improve on the sidelines.. so feeding him the rock now is going to tell the Packers what they have in him.

My opinion as runners, I like Green better as a pure runner, he runs behind his pads and low. Starks on the other hand is more vertical, and although he runs with some power, he takes a beating in the process.

Summary, I think the Packers are better off with Green as option 1 and Starks as the overflow for the above mention reasons at this point. Starks will get to knock the rust off and yet is protected as a back can be in terms of injury risks. Benson's progress will then dictate the roles moving forward, if he comes back, Starks will move more towards the feature back and Green will overtake the role the serves him and the Packers best.. 3rd down and change of pace.


Holy smokes. Point by point, this is what I was gonna write. OK, Pack93z beat me to it so he gets an applause point. I'm pretty sure this is why Mike McCarthy is still feeding Green the carries, point by point.
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Offline olds70supreme  
#19 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 9:39:35 AM(UTC)
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My thoughts, take them for what they are worth:
  • The Starks vs Green stats listed for 20+ carries came behind different offensive lines (Jeff Saturday is detrimental to the running game).
  • I don't think that Starks having played in a playoff game means much, if anything. As far as executing as a running back a game is a game, regardless of whether it is regular season or post season. As far as leadership during a playoff game, he is waaaay down on the list of influences on the roster.
  • I am probably wrong on this, but it seems like Kuhn is rarely on the field for running plays this year. Maybe with his influence Green would be able to put up comparable numbers to Starks.
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Offline zombieslayer  
#20 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 9:43:43 AM(UTC)
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Kuhn maybe being saved for the Playoffs as well. We all know that whereas Kuhn's not gonna break the big one, tackling Kuhn hurts you more than Kuhn.

Green WILL bust a big one. It's just a matter of time. Green in the open field > Starks. I love Starks' brutality, but in the open field, my Grandma will catch up to him and tackle him. Green on the other hand will get away.

Green can handle the load. He already proved that. Starks is always injured. Starks also seems to piss of Mike McCarthy a lot.
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Offline polargrizz  
#21 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 10:03:48 AM(UTC)
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My question is this, with the passing game that you have why would you ever run the ball except for 3rd and short? Face it you have no running game, or at least one good enough that McCarthy will stay with it.
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zombieslayer on 11/1/2012(UTC)
Offline olds70supreme  
#22 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 11:15:20 AM(UTC)
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Quote:
My question is this, with the passing game that you have why would you ever run the ball except for 3rd and short? Face it you have no running game, or at least one good enough that McCarthy will stay with it.


The point is that right now the run game is anemic. If there was a simple way to improve it it would improve the team immensely. At the moment the run game is nowhere near good enough to even count on on third and short.
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Offline gbguy20  
#23 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 11:24:09 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: olds70supreme Go to Quoted Post
The point is that right now the run game is anemic. If there was a simple way to improve it it would improve the team immensely. At the moment the run game is nowhere near good enough to even count on on third and short.


This is one of the biggest issues this team faces right now. When its 3rd and 2, I am TERRIFIED that McCarthy is about to run the ball. I should not have to be afraid of running the ball on 3rd and 2.
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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#24 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 11:48:23 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: gbguy20 Go to Quoted Post
This is one of the biggest issues this team faces right now. When its 3rd and 2, I am TERRIFIED that McCarthy is about to run the ball. I should not have to be afraid of running the ball on 3rd and 2.


I look forward to him calling a run play. I can think of maybe 2 or 3 times where we have even lined up to try and get a 3rd and short by running.
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Offline nerdmann  
#25 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 12:40:59 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: gbguy20 Go to Quoted Post
This is one of the biggest issues this team faces right now. When its 3rd and 2, I am TERRIFIED that McCarthy is about to run the ball. I should not have to be afraid of running the ball on 3rd and 2.


I'm terrified he's gonna run it too.

Then again I'm even MORE terrified, he's gonna throw deep off play action. LOL
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Offline nerdmann  
#26 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 12:44:17 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: zombieslayer Go to Quoted Post
Kuhn maybe being saved for the Playoffs as well. We all know that whereas Kuhn's not gonna break the big one, tackling Kuhn hurts you more than Kuhn.

Green WILL bust a big one. It's just a matter of time. Green in the open field > Starks. I love Starks' brutality, but in the open field, my Grandma will catch up to him and tackle him. Green on the other hand will get away.

Green can handle the load. He already proved that. Starks is always injured. Starks also seems to piss of Mike McCarthy a lot.


For right now, I'm putting Green's struggles on the OL in front of him. That was a good article on the subject.

And Green is very dynamic in the open field.

I don't buy this idea of saving Starks as a "secret weapon" for the playoffs. Mike McCarthy does seem to do that with various plays and stuff during the season. In fact, all this weird bullshit on ST seems like he's fucking with the heads of coordinators around the league so they'll have plenty to think about in the post season.

BUT, keep in mind, Benson SHOULD (although he has a history of problems with that foot) be back for the playoffs.

I like Starks, but I think he's in the doghouse with Arodge/MM, for whatever reason.
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Offline gbguy20  
#27 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 9:19:11 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
I'm terrified he's gonna run it too.

Then again I'm even MORE terrified, he's gonna throw deep off play action. LOL


same.

what happened to a good ol fashion slant?
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Offline Pack93z  
#28 Posted : Friday, November 2, 2012 7:21:51 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: gbguy20 Go to Quoted Post
same.

what happened to a good ol fashion slant?


Teams have film on this offense from last year.. they as well know that we have in the recent pass been dependent on the short passing game for short yardage.. so guess what, they are scheming to take that away.

Sitting the corners on the inside shoulder, clogging up the middle of the field with extra coverage.. etc.. they are daring us to run the ball, and if not, leaving the over a little more open, thus why we are taking shots down the field, because it looks like the best option available.

Basically it is all a trickle down from us in the past not running the ball and currently struggling to run it effectively. With repetitions, we will start running the ball more effectively. But even us running the ball and struggling it is helping the offense. Sure we threw a clunker out there last week.. but the prior two weeks were tight.

Basically.. I think we are over reacting at this point, we have won three straight games with balance. That balance even helped last week in securing the win.. but because we aren't clipping off 4 yards per carry, everyone is assuming that the run isn't helping. It is still, but not as much as it could be yet. That is a work in progress, the bright spot for me, Mike McCarthy is still sticking with it and that will pay dividends later in this season.
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yooperfan on 11/2/2012(UTC)
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#29 Posted : Friday, November 2, 2012 7:46:46 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
Teams have film on this offense from last year.. they as well know that we have in the recent pass been dependent on the short passing game for short yardage.. so guess what, they are scheming to take that away.

Sitting the corners on the inside shoulder, clogging up the middle of the field with extra coverage.. etc.. they are daring us to run the ball, and if not, leaving the over a little more open, thus why we are taking shots down the field, because it looks like the best option available.


We have run the slant since the beginning days of Favre. A real slant, those that, Rice ran, and those that Favre threw. They were one step drop throws. That can't be done out of the shotgun because of the time for the ball to get to QB. So the slants have been extended to 3-4 yards then slant which gives pass rush more time, and coverage more tim. Corners couldn't play inside on those real slants because each of them had a slant and a slant and go option. If the CB cheated inside, they just lofted a quick pass over the Cheating CB head, they had to play straight up, and read and try to jump the route risking the big gain. We need to get back to that.
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Offline Porforis  
#30 Posted : Friday, November 2, 2012 8:11:13 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: polargrizz Go to Quoted Post
My question is this, with the passing game that you have why would you ever run the ball except for 3rd and short? Face it you have no running game, or at least one good enough that McCarthy will stay with it.


Fine and dandy once at LEAST Jordy Nelson is healthy (preferably Jennings as well), but I don't have much faith in anybody but Cobb getting open routinely, and if he does he's going to be doubleteamed.
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