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Online nerdmann  
#26 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 12:44:17 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: zombieslayer Go to Quoted Post
Kuhn maybe being saved for the Playoffs as well. We all know that whereas Kuhn's not gonna break the big one, tackling Kuhn hurts you more than Kuhn.

Green WILL bust a big one. It's just a matter of time. Green in the open field > Starks. I love Starks' brutality, but in the open field, my Grandma will catch up to him and tackle him. Green on the other hand will get away.

Green can handle the load. He already proved that. Starks is always injured. Starks also seems to piss of Mike McCarthy a lot.


For right now, I'm putting Green's struggles on the OL in front of him. That was a good article on the subject.

And Green is very dynamic in the open field.

I don't buy this idea of saving Starks as a "secret weapon" for the playoffs. Mike McCarthy does seem to do that with various plays and stuff during the season. In fact, all this weird bullshit on ST seems like he's fucking with the heads of coordinators around the league so they'll have plenty to think about in the post season.

BUT, keep in mind, Benson SHOULD (although he has a history of problems with that foot) be back for the playoffs.

I like Starks, but I think he's in the doghouse with Arodge/MM, for whatever reason.
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Offline gbguy20  
#27 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 9:19:11 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
I'm terrified he's gonna run it too.

Then again I'm even MORE terrified, he's gonna throw deep off play action. LOL


same.

what happened to a good ol fashion slant?
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Offline Pack93z  
#28 Posted : Friday, November 2, 2012 7:21:51 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: gbguy20 Go to Quoted Post
same.

what happened to a good ol fashion slant?


Teams have film on this offense from last year.. they as well know that we have in the recent pass been dependent on the short passing game for short yardage.. so guess what, they are scheming to take that away.

Sitting the corners on the inside shoulder, clogging up the middle of the field with extra coverage.. etc.. they are daring us to run the ball, and if not, leaving the over a little more open, thus why we are taking shots down the field, because it looks like the best option available.

Basically it is all a trickle down from us in the past not running the ball and currently struggling to run it effectively. With repetitions, we will start running the ball more effectively. But even us running the ball and struggling it is helping the offense. Sure we threw a clunker out there last week.. but the prior two weeks were tight.

Basically.. I think we are over reacting at this point, we have won three straight games with balance. That balance even helped last week in securing the win.. but because we aren't clipping off 4 yards per carry, everyone is assuming that the run isn't helping. It is still, but not as much as it could be yet. That is a work in progress, the bright spot for me, Mike McCarthy is still sticking with it and that will pay dividends later in this season.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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yooperfan on 11/2/2012(UTC)
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#29 Posted : Friday, November 2, 2012 7:46:46 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
Teams have film on this offense from last year.. they as well know that we have in the recent pass been dependent on the short passing game for short yardage.. so guess what, they are scheming to take that away.

Sitting the corners on the inside shoulder, clogging up the middle of the field with extra coverage.. etc.. they are daring us to run the ball, and if not, leaving the over a little more open, thus why we are taking shots down the field, because it looks like the best option available.


We have run the slant since the beginning days of Favre. A real slant, those that, Rice ran, and those that Favre threw. They were one step drop throws. That can't be done out of the shotgun because of the time for the ball to get to QB. So the slants have been extended to 3-4 yards then slant which gives pass rush more time, and coverage more tim. Corners couldn't play inside on those real slants because each of them had a slant and a slant and go option. If the CB cheated inside, they just lofted a quick pass over the Cheating CB head, they had to play straight up, and read and try to jump the route risking the big gain. We need to get back to that.
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Offline Porforis  
#30 Posted : Friday, November 2, 2012 8:11:13 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: polargrizz Go to Quoted Post
My question is this, with the passing game that you have why would you ever run the ball except for 3rd and short? Face it you have no running game, or at least one good enough that McCarthy will stay with it.


Fine and dandy once at LEAST Jordy Nelson is healthy (preferably Jennings as well), but I don't have much faith in anybody but Cobb getting open routinely, and if he does he's going to be doubleteamed.
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Offline play2win  
#31 Posted : Friday, November 2, 2012 11:00:14 AM(UTC)
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I thought something might be funky with regards to Green and his OL blocking in front of him:

"Green Bay Packers RB Alex Green needs to be more patient with the team's zone-blocking scheme, according to running backs coach Alex Van Pelt. "Slow it down," Van Pelt said. "He's such a fast-twitch guy that a lot of times the blocks haven't quite developed yet. But we're getting there. Just to slow our pace down, tempo, just track down, and then once he sees it, accelerate and explode through the hole." Green has just a 2.4-yards-per-carry average in the last three games on 64 carries."

Read more: http://www.kffl.com/hotw/NFL?page=0#ixzz2B5XQhBGk

Hey, hopefully the kid shows a bit more patience and puts a good running game together Sunday, and for the rest of the season. That would be awesome. It really is a beautiful thing watching a back who knows how to let his blocking develop in front of him, then burst into the hole and the open field. Maybe this little bit of coaching does the trick.

If it doesn't, I think Starks will be fine getting more of a chance to carry this team into the playoffs.
Offline Rios39  
#32 Posted : Friday, November 2, 2012 11:10:11 AM(UTC)
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Been watching a lot of film break down and I find the blocking to be at least average. Not much room to run but Alex Green has not shown any vision what so ever. That and he's very easy to take down around the line of scrimmage. He's good in open space but he's gotta get there.
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Offline play2win  
#33 Posted : Friday, November 2, 2012 11:23:05 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Rios39 Go to Quoted Post
Been watching a lot of film break down and I find the blocking to be at least average. Not much room to run but Alex Green has not shown any vision what so ever. That and he's very easy to take down around the line of scrimmage. He's good in open space but he's gotta get there.


Yeah, the blocking hasn't been great, for sure. However, Green has been running into spaces that look to not be part of the play design. Man, if both the line blocks better, and Green gets a better feel for how to hit it, that would be beautiful.
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#34 Posted : Friday, November 2, 2012 8:00:55 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Yeah, the blocking hasn't been great, for sure. However, Green has been running into spaces that look to not be part of the play design. Man, if both the line blocks better, and Green gets a better feel for how to hit it, that would be beautiful.


Perhaps he is running to where the play is designed to go. The scheme is to run to an area, and look for the gap and go. Most of the bad runs I have seen, look like the holes are opening behind him or to late.
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Offline PackerTraxx  
#35 Posted : Saturday, November 3, 2012 10:12:58 AM(UTC)
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There was an article in one of the papers this week that he is not being patient enough for the holes to open. For what it's worth. A number of the plays I've seen don't coincide with that as he's being tackled in our backfield. I guess there's others where it would have made a difference. If I can find it I'll post it.
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Offline zombieslayer  
#36 Posted : Sunday, November 4, 2012 9:44:29 PM(UTC)
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I know it's just one game, but Green looked better than Starks today.

Code:


James Starks 	17 	61 	3.6 	14
Alex Green 	11 	53 	4.8 	21


Neither of them got a TD run. Starks fumbled once and was lucky Aaron Rodgers is the man and recovered it. Plus, Starks had no receptions whereas Green had 4 for 25 yards.

Starks isn't making a good case for himself to be ahead of Green in the depth chart. However, I'd still love to see Starks get 20+ carries in a game and see how he performs. We still don't have enough info on him this year to judge.
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Online nerdmann  
#37 Posted : Sunday, November 4, 2012 9:57:03 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: zombieslayer Go to Quoted Post
I know it's just one game, but Green looked better than Starks today.

Code:


James Starks 	17 	61 	3.6 	14
Alex Green 	11 	53 	4.8 	21


Neither of them got a TD run. Starks fumbled once and was lucky Aaron Rodgers is the man and recovered it. Plus, Starks had no receptions whereas Green had 4 for 25 yards.

Starks isn't making a good case for himself to be ahead of Green in the depth chart. However, I'd still love to see Starks get 20+ carries in a game and see how he performs. We still don't have enough info on him this year to judge.


Green had a higher per carry average, if that's what you mean.

I think they can both play, but Starks is more likely to fall forward.

Green's a better receiver, better at pass pro and better in the open field.
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Offline Porforis  
#38 Posted : Sunday, November 4, 2012 9:58:35 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackerTraxx Go to Quoted Post
There was an article in one of the papers this week that he is not being patient enough for the holes to open. For what it's worth. A number of the plays I've seen don't coincide with that as he's being tackled in our backfield. I guess there's others where it would have made a difference. If I can find it I'll post it.


You're misunderstanding what was being said. He needs to be patient. He's trying to push ahead for whatever yards he can, he SHOULD be going to the ground, waiting for the whistle to be blown, and then running through the holes that develop in the defense.
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Offline zombieslayer  
#39 Posted : Sunday, November 4, 2012 10:13:09 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
Green had a higher per carry average, if that's what you mean.

I think they can both play, but Starks is more likely to fall forward.

Green's a better receiver, better at pass pro and better in the open field.


Green is undeniably faster. But Starks hurts tacklers more. Both of those skills are assets going forward for the Packers.

I'm convinced Mike McCarthy still hasn't made up his mind who will be the starting RB when the Playoffs come around. Right now, I'm betting Mike McCarthy is hoping Benson will be 100% for the Playoffs. I think Benson's 84 yard effort against the Saints was the Packers' best effort so far this year.
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Offline Gaycandybacon  
#40 Posted : Sunday, November 4, 2012 10:14:16 PM(UTC)
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I got my wish. Kindof a 2-back system! The results speak for themselves.
Offline gbguy20  
#41 Posted : Sunday, November 4, 2012 10:42:12 PM(UTC)
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IDC what the numbers say, I was happier with Starks running the ball.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#42 Posted : Monday, November 5, 2012 7:34:43 AM(UTC)
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During the game the announcers said Mike McCarthy was planning on using James Starks on 1st and 2nd down and then Alex Green on 3rd. Where did we hear that before? I think Mike is stalking our little website! haha.

James Starks was by far the better runner yesterday, no question. But Green is worlds better on 3rd and long and pass blocking. The only time I'd want Starks in on 3rd is if it's 3rd and 3 or less to go. I feel Green has tons more potential to break one 50+, where I think the longest we'll see from Starks is 30'ish. However, I think Starks makes more out of nothing than Green and that's why I prefer Starks.
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SINCITYCHEEZE on 11/5/2012(UTC)
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#43 Posted : Monday, November 5, 2012 8:18:45 AM(UTC)
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I don't think either overall is better than the other. Like any back Both are dependent on the Oline blocking.

For a break down
Starks had 1 negative run, 1 No gain, 7 0-3 yards, 6 4-9, and 1 >10.
Green had 0 Negative runs, 1 No gain, 5 0-3 yards, 4 4-9, and 1 >10.

The key for the run success this week, was running up the middle more. The line can run block when they are allowed to plow forward.

I like the day Green had, the only bad run he had was the no gainer which there was nothing he could do. the only hole opened had an unbloced DT and LB waiting for him. When you add his screen play on top of his rushes.
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Offline zombieslayer  
#44 Posted : Monday, November 5, 2012 8:30:13 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
I don't think either overall is better than the other. Like any back Both are dependent on the Oline blocking.

For a break down
Starks had 1 negative run, 1 No gain, 7 0-3 yards, 6 4-9, and 1 >10.
Green had 0 Negative runs, 1 No gain, 5 0-3 yards, 4 4-9, and 1 >10.

The key for the run success this week, was running up the middle more. The line can run block when they are allowed to plow forward.

I like the day Green had, the only bad run he had was the no gainer which there was nothing he could do. the only hole opened had an unbloced DT and LB waiting for him. When you add his screen play on top of his rushes.


Sort of agreed on your first point. There is one thing that I'm sure Mike McCarthy will take into consideration is that there aren't too many DBs in the NFL who Starks will get away from in the open field. Green on the other hand is capable of busting big ones. Plus, Green is a better receiver and better blocker. Starks may be tougher to tackle, but right now, I give a slight nod to Green.

By the end of the season, if Starks proves me wrong, so be it. I'll support whomever we're playing.
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Offline SINCITYCHEEZE  
#45 Posted : Monday, November 5, 2012 11:09:48 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
During the game the announcers said Mike McCarthy was planning on using James Starks on 1st and 2nd down and then Alex Green on 3rd. Where did we hear that before? I think Mike is stalking our little website! haha.

James Starks was by far the better runner yesterday, no question. But Green is worlds better on 3rd and long and pass blocking. The only time I'd want Starks in on 3rd is if it's 3rd and 3 or less to go. I feel Green has tons more potential to break one 50+, where I think the longest we'll see from Starks is 30'ish. However, I think Starks makes more out of nothing than Green and that's why I prefer Starks.

I agree.It would be nice to be able to run it on 3rd-short instead passing.

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Offline TheKanataThrilla  
#46 Posted : Monday, November 5, 2012 11:13:56 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: gbguy20 Go to Quoted Post
IDC what the numbers say, I was happier with Starks running the ball.


Me too until he fumbled the ball. This seems like a risk/reward type of situation. Starks provides more talent, but is more likely to cause the negative play.
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Offline doddpower  
#47 Posted : Monday, November 5, 2012 2:36:08 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: TheKanataThrilla Go to Quoted Post
Me too until he fumbled the ball. This seems like a risk/reward type of situation. Starks provides more talent, but is more likely to cause the negative play.


Yeah, I'd rather 2.5ish yards per carry average on 20 attempts and no fumbles than than a 4.0 ypc average and a fumble or two, at least I'm pretty sure I would. This offense has and will continue to run through Aaron Rodgers and the passing game. The running game is there for the attempts and hopefully enough yardage to keep the defense honest and allow the offensive line to tee off on the defense a bit. Obviously a better average is ideal, but most important, don't turn the damn ball over. Even if there is no running game, with the ball in Aaron Rodgers hands, the Packers always have a chance. Allow Starks or Green to fumble the ball away and the opposing team to keep Rodgers off the field for extended periods of time is a recipe for disaster for the packers.

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Offline Zero2Cool  
#48 Posted : Tuesday, November 6, 2012 7:11:26 AM(UTC)
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"McCarthy said the Packers will let “next week tell us the story” about how the team will proceed with platooning running backs James Starks and Alex Green in the backfield, but it sounded promising that Starks will continue to see an expanded role on offense."


James Starks, hasn't had ball security issues before, so hopefully it doesn't become one now and it looks like he'll get more playing time. Of course, unless he puts the ball on the turf again.
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Online nerdmann  
#49 Posted : Tuesday, November 6, 2012 3:18:37 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
"McCarthy said the Packers will let “next week tell us the story” about how the team will proceed with platooning running backs James Starks and Alex Green in the backfield, but it sounded promising that Starks will continue to see an expanded role on offense."


James Starks, hasn't had ball security issues before, so hopefully it doesn't become one now and it looks like he'll get more playing time. Of course, unless he puts the ball on the turf again.


One of them will get injured.

Meantime, the Packers will platoon them based on matchups.

If one of them gets injured too badly, they might even make Grant a lowball offer.
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Offline Pack93z  
#50 Posted : Tuesday, November 6, 2012 4:43:11 PM(UTC)
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Well, if Starks doesn't have the motivation to stay on the field and produce with Green nipping at his heals.. then this might be the last stand he has in Green Bay.
Mike McCarthy has done all but color him a picture... want reps stay on the field you candy ass.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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