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Offline Pack93z  
#1 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 10:27:27 AM(UTC)
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Ahhh... bring back such sweet memories.. glad to see there is still some grudges from the Monsters of the Midway.

Dent is probably right.. but fanning the flames is still fun.

Quote:

Richard Dent blames Mike Ditka

Mike Ditka refused to engage in a war of words with Hall of Fame defensive Richard Dent, who said Wednesday that Ditka was the reason the 1985 Chicago Bears didn't repeat as Super Bowl champions.

After winning Super Bowl XX to cap a 15-1 season with one of the greatest defenses of all time, the Bears looked poised to challenge for another one in '86. But a controversial hit by Green Bay Packers defensive lineman Charles Martin ended Jim McMahon's season in Week 12 with the Bears at 10-2.

The Bears finished the regular season 14-2, but after having Mike Tomczak and Steve Fuller back up McMahon during the regular season, Ditka turned to Doug Flutie in the playoffs. Flutie went 11 of 31 for 134 yards with a touchdown and two interceptions in a playoff loss to the Washington Redskins.

"More than anything, Mike didn't manage that quarterback position," Dent said on WSCR-670 (AM). "Bringing Doug Flutie in and thinking that he's gonna come in and be on a team for three weeks and start him in a playoff game? Hell, I mean you're trying to change the name on the Super Bowl trophy to Mike Ditka (from) Vince Lombardi when you do something like that.

"We had won with Tomczak and Fuller. That's all we needed to do is stay with that plan. Then you bring a guy off the street."

Ditka said the accusation from Dent was nothing new.

"He's done it many times," Ditka told ESPNChicago.com's Melissa Isaacson. "I have no idea (why he's doing it again now).

"I think lot of times you gotta consider the source. I never get too upset about it. It doesn't bother me. I don't know what it is, I really don't. It's been 28 years ago that we won it and I could care less."

Edited by user Sunday, November 4, 2012 2:21:07 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline zombieslayer  
#2 Posted : Thursday, November 1, 2012 11:33:56 AM(UTC)
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Mike Tomzcak was awful. In '86, the year Dent mentioned, Tomzcak threw 2 TDs vs 10 INTs. Really Dent?

Steve Fuller wasn't much better. Yes, Flutie was right off the street, but he could throw a football better than Tomzcak and Fuller COMBINED. Heck, my Grandma throws better than Mike Tomzcak. Tomzcak was the precursor to Wrecks G***sm*n.
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Offline nyrpack  
#3 Posted : Sunday, November 4, 2012 8:49:09 AM(UTC)
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ditka is more a fun personality then a great football mind, he did a good job with the bears in 85 , but with that defense most guys could have won the superbowl that year !!
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Offline Wade  
#4 Posted : Sunday, November 4, 2012 10:41:28 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nyrpack Go to Quoted Post
ditka is more a fun personality then a great football mind, he did a good job with the bears in 85 , but with that defense most guys could have won the superbowl that year !!


Except for Norm Van Brocklin, Bud Grant, Les Steckel, Jerry Burns, Dennis Green, Mike Tice, Brad Childress, and Leslie Frazier, that is.

Big Grin
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Offline Cheesey  
#5 Posted : Thursday, November 8, 2012 12:07:58 PM(UTC)
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Well....many of the Packer players blame Holmgren for losing SB 32.

I guess you take the "attaboys" along with the "YOU SUCK!"Big Grin
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Offline zombieslayer  
#6 Posted : Saturday, November 10, 2012 9:35:45 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Cheesey Go to Quoted Post
Well....many of the Packer players blame Holmgren for losing SB 32.

I guess you take the "attaboys" along with the "YOU SUCK!"Big Grin


If one person tells a story, I take it with a grain of salt.

If everyone tells the same story, then I tend to believe it.

I know this is a weird example, but let's take Oasis. Remember that English band from the 90s? Well, there are two brothers - Liam and Noel. They used to fight all the time. They broke up a few years back and haven't talked to each other since.

Everyone says Noel is the asshole and is still friends with Liam. So if I had to put my $$$ down, I'd say that Noel is the asshole.

Same applies to Holmgren. I've heard from not one, but several Packer players that Holmgren lost it at half-time and just started yelling at the Packer players instead of making the necessary half-time adjustments. When I saw Brett Favre's face after the game, it made sense. He took off his jersey like he was ashamed to be a Packer.

Thus is one HUGE plus to Mike McCarthy. Mike never loses it. He gets scared. He gets nervous. But he doesn't take it out on the players. He always has his players' backs. Had Mike been in that situation, I could guarantee you Mike would have adjusted. The adjustments I would have made would have been to rotate (to rest) the front 4 DL (they were exhausted and worthless by the end of the game), put 7 or 8 men in the box and force Elway to beat us. Elway wasn't (and never was) an elite passer. An elite QB, yes, but his passing was never very accurate. Compare Aikman and Elway's passing and Aikman smoked Elway, and Aikman wasn't even the most accurate passer back then. Steve Young and Favre were both better.

Holmgren didn't do any of that. He just kept the same stupid setup while lowering everyone's morale and managed to get us our only SB loss ever.

I'll probably forgive him in a few more decades. Right now, not yet.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#7 Posted : Saturday, November 10, 2012 10:20:59 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: zombieslayer Go to Quoted Post
Thus is one HUGE plus to Mike McCarthy. Mike never loses it. He gets scared. He gets nervous. But he doesn't take it out on the players. He always has his players' backs. Had Mike been in that situation, I could guarantee you Mike would have adjusted.


I bet everyone thought the same thing about Mike Holmgren too, until he left the Packers and several years later people started freely speaking about their former coach/boss.

I do think Mike McCarthy has more self control than Mike Holmgren, but we've heard reports of McCarthy lashing out hard on the players during half time already. I also think Holmgren was more ego driven than McCarthy.

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Offline zombieslayer  
#8 Posted : Saturday, November 10, 2012 12:23:37 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
I bet everyone thought the same thing about Mike Holmgren too, until he left the Packers and several years later people started freely speaking about their former coach/boss.

I do think Mike McCarthy has more self control than Mike Holmgren, but we've heard reports of McCarthy lashing out hard on the players during half time already. I also think Holmgren was more ego driven than McCarthy.


Mike is about accountability and availability, which from a coach's perspective I completely agree with. Lashing out on one individual player I actually agree with. If you do boneheaded things, you should be yelled at. But the people who are doing things right should be praised.

Now, to yell at the entire team and lower everyone's morale, HUGE difference. If it's an individual person being a dumbass, you can pull them and put the #2 guy in there. You can't eject your team.

I don't think I wrote what I put above very well because I didn't differentiate the two.

I see Mike McCarthy being a Packers coach for much longer than Holmgren did. I also see Mike McCarthy having considerably more titles.
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