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Offline Gaycandybacon  
#1 Posted : Thursday, November 8, 2012 3:32:08 PM(UTC)
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Sacks>Interceptions We don't wanna be Cutler and do both!
Offline zombieslayer  
#2 Posted : Friday, November 9, 2012 10:18:45 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Gaycandybacon Go to Quoted Post
Sacks>Interceptions We don't wanna be Cutler and do both!


Wish Aaron would throw the ball away more and not take sacks.
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Offline Gaycandybacon  
#3 Posted : Friday, November 9, 2012 11:01:34 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: zombieslayer Go to Quoted Post
Wish Aaron would throw the ball away more and not take sacks.


He really shouldn't worrie about that though. That's the fault of to many QBs. They're afraid to take nothing and make it into something.

Every QB does it not just Aaron. I think it's a piss poor excuse imo that a lot of people make because there's so many things happening on the field at once and sometimes he's inside the pocket and no ones open. I say try to make a play everytime just be smart with the football. Most times than not he does it very well.
Offline steveishere  
#4 Posted : Saturday, November 10, 2012 6:35:55 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: zombieslayer Go to Quoted Post
Wish Aaron would throw the ball away more and not take sacks.


Every time I start thinking that I wait a few plays and watch him have a play where he holds the ball too long but buys enough time to make a huge first down or throw a TD. I really don't have any problem either with a 3rd down sack as opposed to throwing the ball away. It doesn't really change much.

I've never been a big fan of the sack stat though I think it's extremely overrated. It's the same thing as a TFL and it's an extra 4 or 5 yards as opposed to a throwaway but it's so revered as this amazing thing (or damaging thing if it happens to you) that changes the game so much when all it changes is a single drive (and that's only if the offense doesn't get a first down afterwards, in that case it really meant nothing).
Offline zombieslayer  
#5 Posted : Saturday, November 10, 2012 9:27:14 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
Every time I start thinking that I wait a few plays and watch him have a play where he holds the ball too long but buys enough time to make a huge first down or throw a TD. I really don't have any problem either with a 3rd down sack as opposed to throwing the ball away. It doesn't really change much.

I've never been a big fan of the sack stat though I think it's extremely overrated. It's the same thing as a TFL and it's an extra 4 or 5 yards as opposed to a throwaway but it's so revered as this amazing thing (or damaging thing if it happens to you) that changes the game so much when all it changes is a single drive (and that's only if the offense doesn't get a first down afterwards, in that case it really meant nothing).


Couldn't disagree with you more about the sack stat, amigo.

Past 5 SB winners, 4 of them were among the top in the NFL in sacks. The lone exception were the '09 Saints who were #1 in INTs.

No coincidence.

Stop the pass, win the game. You either stop it by having one hell of a pass D or you put the opposing QB on his back. Either way is fine.
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Offline doddpower  
#6 Posted : Saturday, November 10, 2012 12:22:24 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
Every time I start thinking that I wait a few plays and watch him have a play where he holds the ball too long but buys enough time to make a huge first down or throw a TD. I really don't have any problem either with a 3rd down sack as opposed to throwing the ball away. It doesn't really change much.

I've never been a big fan of the sack stat though I think it's extremely overrated. It's the same thing as a TFL and it's an extra 4 or 5 yards as opposed to a throwaway but it's so revered as this amazing thing (or damaging thing if it happens to you) that changes the game so much when all it changes is a single drive (and that's only if the offense doesn't get a first down afterwards, in that case it really meant nothing).


The mental effect of a QB getting swarmed and slammed to the ground cannot be over rated. If a QB is nervous in the pocket, it effects his entire game. That's a big reason sacks are important. A throw away generally doesn't hurt the QB at all. But a nasty sack of a 250 lb + (perhaps 325+) defensive player falling on their shoulder sticks with them the entire game.

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zombieslayer on 11/10/2012(UTC), Since69 on 11/12/2012(UTC)
Offline zombieslayer  
#7 Posted : Saturday, November 10, 2012 12:30:48 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: doddpower Go to Quoted Post
The mental effect of a QB getting swarmed and slammed to the ground cannot be over rated. If a QB is nervous in the pocket, it effects his entire game. That's a big reason sacks are important. A throw away generally doesn't hurt the QB at all. But a nasty sack of a 250 lb + (perhaps 325+) defensive player falling on their shoulder sticks with them the entire game.



Exactly.

These guys are all supreme athletes. I worked out with semi-pro guys and got injured in a scrimmage. Those guys can't hang with the pro guys so I can imagine just how awesome even your #3 and #4 pro guy is.

So, when you have someone who is a supreme athlete vs someone else who is also a supreme athlete, it comes down to morale/heart. It becomes a test of wills. We saw Tom Brady put up the best season ever for a QB (up until that time) in 2007 and Tom Coughlin get into his head to beat Brady in the SB. That's one example I probably use too frequently, but it's for a reason - it was an extreme performance getting nullified by better chess moves.

After these QBs all retire, ask them how they feel about CM3 standing over them and doing the Predator move. Ask if that got inside their heads. I can guarantee you it did.

There was a commercial years ago with Joe Montana looking at ink blots. The psychologist asks him "what do you see?" Montana says "Reggie White." The psychologist shows another ink blot and asks the same question. Same answer. Repeat one or two more times.

I know it's a joke, but I can also guarantee you that at any time, those QBs were hoping they had a safe distance from Reggie White.
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Offline steveishere  
#8 Posted : Sunday, November 11, 2012 8:42:14 AM(UTC)
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I'm not saying that getting pressure on the QB or hitting him is overrated. That's what matters. I'm saying that the individual aspect of getting a sack is overrated. Nobody ever talks about TFLs or hits on the QB that cause a bad pass with nearly the respect that they talk about sacks. Players have an amazing season if they have 15 sacks on the year which is great but that only explains what happened on 15 out of 300+ of their pass rushes and probably a bunch of those sacks were meaningless because the other team got a first down afterwards.

If a QB gets sacked on his first 5 plays of the game but gets a completely clean pocket the rest of the game the "psychological impact" would be minimal and it would look like the other team really got after him when in reality they spent most of the game being stonewalled.

Offline zombieslayer  
#9 Posted : Sunday, November 11, 2012 10:30:23 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
I'm not saying that getting pressure on the QB or hitting him is overrated. That's what matters. I'm saying that the individual aspect of getting a sack is overrated. Nobody ever talks about TFLs or hits on the QB that cause a bad pass with nearly the respect that they talk about sacks. Players have an amazing season if they have 15 sacks on the year which is great but that only explains what happened on 15 out of 300+ of their pass rushes and probably a bunch of those sacks were meaningless because the other team got a first down afterwards.

If a QB gets sacked on his first 5 plays of the game but gets a completely clean pocket the rest of the game the "psychological impact" would be minimal and it would look like the other team really got after him when in reality they spent most of the game being stonewalled.



Sacks on 3rd down end drives. Unless you're in a 4 down situation. Sacks on 4th down of course end drives. Sacks on 2nd down usually end drives. I don't see how sacks can be overrated.

Even better than a sack is a sack + fumble.
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Offline steveishere  
#10 Posted : Monday, November 12, 2012 10:30:37 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: zombieslayer Go to Quoted Post
Sacks on 3rd down end drives. Unless you're in a 4 down situation. Sacks on 4th down of course end drives. Sacks on 2nd down usually end drives. I don't see how sacks can be overrated.

Even better than a sack is a sack + fumble.


Throwing the ball away on 3rd down ends the drive as well. My point is everyone gets all exited over like 12 sacks a year from a player when all that means is that 12 drives were effected MAX. How many pass rushes does a full time edge rusher take a year like 300+ maybe? Then a number of those sacks probably didn't mean that much due to The other team converting a first down afterwards or being in a meaningless garbage time situation etc..

There is never any context with them and it's such a small sample of a players total body of work. It's become a very overrated stat. Nobody ever cares about TFL or batted/defensed passes like they do sacks. I'm not saying they are worthless and don't mean anything just that people overrate the stat itself.
Offline zombieslayer  
#11 Posted : Monday, November 12, 2012 11:11:56 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
Throwing the ball away on 3rd down ends the drive as well. My point is everyone gets all exited over like 12 sacks a year from a player when all that means is that 12 drives were effected MAX. How many pass rushes does a full time edge rusher take a year like 300+ maybe? Then a number of those sacks probably didn't mean that much due to The other team converting a first down afterwards or being in a meaningless garbage time situation etc..

There is never any context with them and it's such a small sample of a players total body of work. It's become a very overrated stat. Nobody ever cares about TFL or batted/defensed passes like they do sacks. I'm not saying they are worthless and don't mean anything just that people overrate the stat itself.


You're talking about an individual stat. I'm talking about a team stat. Like I said, 4 out of the 5 last SB winners were among the top or the top in sacks. The lone exception were the Saints who were #1 in the NFL in INTs.

A team that consistently sacks the opposing QB will be better than a team that doesn't. Of course the exception is if they consistently get INTs.
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Offline doddpower  
#12 Posted : Monday, November 12, 2012 3:45:07 PM(UTC)
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I'm confused here. I hear people talking about pressure, hits, batted passes, etc. all the time. Sacks are a highlight obviously, but I always hear a lot about the other stats, too. In fact, most networks always show drop backs, hits, knockdowns, etc throughout the game. And with teams such as the Eagles and Cowboys, we hear about that kind of stuff anymore.

I agree that sacks themselves aren't all that matters. However, generally, if a team gets lots of sacks, chances are they also get a lot of pressure, hits, knockdowns, and possible even batted passes. I imagine those things are fairly highly correlated. Perhaps the 2012 Packers could be an exception though, since they are leading the league in sacks, but the pass rush seems to disappear at times. =/ There are always exceptions though, that's why it's important to state things as generalizations.

Throwing the ball away on 3rd down ends the drive, sure, but the QB might not get hit. I want mean sacks as often as possible to that the QB hears foot steps and is terrified in the pocket. That mental aspect cannot possible be over rated, imo. I'll gladly settle for some quick pressure and a throw away, but a sack would always be ideal.
Offline nerdmann  
#13 Posted : Monday, November 12, 2012 4:04:53 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: doddpower Go to Quoted Post
I'm confused here. I hear people talking about pressure, hits, batted passes, etc. all the time. Sacks are a highlight obviously, but I always hear a lot about the other stats, too. In fact, most networks always show drop backs, hits, knockdowns, etc throughout the game. And with teams such as the Eagles and Cowboys, we hear about that kind of stuff anymore.

I agree that sacks themselves aren't all that matters. However, generally, if a team gets lots of sacks, chances are they also get a lot of pressure, hits, knockdowns, and possible even batted passes. I imagine those things are fairly highly correlated. Perhaps the 2012 Packers could be an exception though, since they are leading the league in sacks, but the pass rush seems to disappear at times. =/ There are always exceptions though, that's why it's important to state things as generalizations.

Throwing the ball away on 3rd down ends the drive, sure, but the QB might not get hit. I want mean sacks as often as possible to that the QB hears foot steps and is terrified in the pocket. That mental aspect cannot possible be over rated, imo. I'll gladly settle for some quick pressure and a throw away, but a sack would always be ideal.


We just lost BOTH of our starting OLBs.

That's gonna take a toll on any team.

Fortunately, we've got a little bit of depth there nowadays. Interesting they picked up So'oto again. I guess he'll take Perry's roster spot. Starters should be Walden and Moses, with Zombo and So'oto backing them up, no?
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Offline PackerTraxx  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2012 7:53:09 AM(UTC)
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Both sacks and interceptions are important. But there's no question that interceptions are more important. Interceptions always stop drives and they always give you the ball and vice versa. So even though I'd like to see Aaron throw the ball away on occasion I'd sooner see him take the sack than throw an interception. As mentioned, he off sets some of the sacks, maybe even more than the number of sacks, by buying time and making something out of nothing.
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Online Zero2Cool  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2012 8:01:00 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
We just lost BOTH of our starting OLBs.

That's gonna take a toll on any team.

Fortunately, we've got a little bit of depth there nowadays. Interesting they picked up So'oto again. I guess he'll take Perry's roster spot. Starters should be Walden and Moses, with Zombo and So'oto backing them up, no?


Clay will play.
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Offline PackerTraxx  
#16 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2012 8:04:05 AM(UTC)
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Have you heard something or is this just an educated opinion? I think that would be huge, as long as he's 100% healthy. Stafford can be deadly given time.
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Offline gbguy20  
#17 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2012 9:59:36 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackerTraxx Go to Quoted Post
Have you heard something or is this just an educated opinion? I think that would be huge, as long as he's 100% healthy. Stafford can be deadly given time.


I'm going to guess he is going by mccarthy saying "we'll see how it goes with clay this week" and he is just assuming that clay will not sit out if he is close. ~could be wrong~
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Online Zero2Cool  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2012 10:04:10 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackerTraxx Go to Quoted Post
Have you heard something or is this just an educated opinion? I think that would be huge, as long as he's 100% healthy. Stafford can be deadly given time.


Experience following the Packers and Clay Matthews III. Chances are, he won't practice at all and will do a walk through before they fly out Saturday and will be a 'game time' decision. Coach will say Clay isn't progressing as well as he had hoped.

The flip side, if they feel he could aggravate it to the point he misses the Giants game, they will sit him.

Do you need Clay for the Lions game or Giants game and beyond? I think Clay came out more preventive than actual injury. I seen him running off the field with no limp after he came out of the game.
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Offline wpr  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2012 3:19:33 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackerTraxx Go to Quoted Post
Both sacks and interceptions are important. But there's no question that interceptions are more important. Interceptions always stop drives and they always give you the ball and vice versa. So even though I'd like to see Aaron throw the ball away on occasion I'd sooner see him take the sack than throw an interception. As mentioned, he off sets some of the sacks, maybe even more than the number of sacks, by buying time and making something out of nothing.


very true. But then a sack that forces a fumble that your team recovers is almost always much more better than an int as you will end up with better field position. (Unless there is a great return on the int.)
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Offline PackerTraxx  
#20 Posted : Wednesday, November 14, 2012 11:57:55 AM(UTC)
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Every play has the possibility of a TD for each side, except extra points.
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#21 Posted : Wednesday, November 14, 2012 12:24:21 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackerTraxx Go to Quoted Post
Every play has the possibility of a TD for each side, except extra points.


If you're going to be technical, lets add two point conversions.
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Offline wpr  
#22 Posted : Wednesday, November 14, 2012 12:50:49 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackerTraxx Go to Quoted Post
Every play has the possibility of a TD for each side, except extra points.


wait you are going too fast. hang on while I write this down.
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Offline Pack93z  
#23 Posted : Wednesday, November 14, 2012 1:03:33 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
If you're going to be technical, lets add two point conversions.


I was going to add a free kick field goal, but upon a quick research, it may be returned as a kickoff or punt. I thought is was a dead play upon the miss.. I was incorrect.


I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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#24 Posted : Wednesday, November 14, 2012 2:42:01 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
Experience following the Packers and Clay Matthews III. Chances are, he won't practice at all and will do a walk through before they fly out Saturday and will be a 'game time' decision. Coach will say Clay isn't progressing as well as he had hoped.

The flip side, if they feel he could aggravate it to the point he misses the Giants game, they will sit him.

Do you need Clay for the Lions game or Giants game and beyond? I think Clay came out more preventive than actual injury. I seen him running off the field with no limp after he came out of the game.


So much for that theory.
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Online Zero2Cool  
#25 Posted : Saturday, December 7, 2013 7:35:49 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: zombieslayer Go to Quoted Post
Wish Aaron would throw the ball away more and not take sacks.


I agree. Less chances of breaking err fracturing a collarbone.
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