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Offline vikesrule  
#406 Posted : Wednesday, November 14, 2012 6:30:56 PM(UTC)
vikesrule

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Originally Posted by: 4PackGirl Go to Quoted Post
27 f'in pages on dems vs reps bullshit.
and people wonder what is wrong with this country?!?
the blame game has gotten us nowhere & yet you STILL continue doing it.
blaming the rich OR the poor is idiotic.
how about we blame the people who are supposed to represent us as a whole??
every single GD politician is to blame.
every single lobby is to blame.
the gov't tells us the facts & figures they want us to hear - not the truth!
i've said this so many times i feel like i'm bashing my head against the f'in wall!
give up the BS of conservative vs liberal because it's a complete fallacy being shoved down your throats by the GD politicians, the media, & the lobbyists!!
the politicians are lining their pockets with YOUR money while YOU sit here & feel all justified in standing up for your policital party of preference. you defend them to the very end because what - they've DONE something for you lately?? bullshit!


Interesting and I hear where you are coming from 4PG.

Which brings up an intriguing question.....
OK, Liberal or Conservative or neither or whatever your leanings/beliefs are....

How many of you (and me) have actually done something other than bitch and moan about the state of affairs of this country?

And I don't mean just voting.

How many of you have contacted your US Senators and Congressmen?
How many of you have tried to make your voice heard?
Emails, Phone calls, letters.....joined a protest?

Take it down a notch, how many of you have contacted your State legislators with your concerns?
Gone to the State capital?

Another notch down...

How many of you have attended City Council meetings and spoke your piece?

Or go to the local school board meeting and voiced your opinions and thoughts?


Or how many of you just think "There is nothing that I can do that will make any difference?"

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Offline 4PackGirl  
#407 Posted : Wednesday, November 14, 2012 7:14:34 PM(UTC)
4PackGirl

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at the lowest level, i totally pissed in our school superintendent's cheerios when i wrote a letter to every member of the school board regarding said superintendent's piss poor performance regarding bullying in my kids school. he doesn't care for me too much anymore. HA!

at the next level, on my farmland, some stupid company is trying it's damndest to get eminent domain to put some big high wire electrical lines right through it so i've actively contacted my state rep's & senator's, the ICC, & anybody else with power who can help those of us in the path of this pile of crappedness!! they don't care for me too much either. HA HA!!

higher than that, i haven't gone. i don't know why except that i honestly don't feel that one lil country girl has enough power to make any significan change with the political environment we're in. maybe i'm wrong & should start writing some letters. maybe i can find someone who will listen to me. i happen to know a senator (she used to be a teacher of mine) who was recently elected in illinois. i could contact her with my concerns too.

other than that, i keep my life small. i do what i can to help out my community by volunteering where i'm needed. in fact, i'm currently trying to find a place to help serve the homeless thanksgiving dinner. i'm not some great do-gooder or holier than thou - i know i could do a helluva lot more so maybe i need to push myself.

the hubby & i had actually wanted to start our own non-profit company but looking at the red tape that requires scared us away.
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Offline Wade  
#408 Posted : Wednesday, November 14, 2012 8:15:14 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: vikesrule Go to Quoted Post
Interesting and I hear where you are coming from 4PG.

Which brings up an intriguing question.....
OK, Liberal or Conservative or neither or whatever your leanings/beliefs are....

How many of you (and me) have actually done something other than bitch and moan about the state of affairs of this country?

And I don't mean just voting.

How many of you have contacted your US Senators and Congressmen?
How many of you have tried to make your voice heard?
Emails, Phone calls, letters.....joined a protest?

Take it down a notch, how many of you have contacted your State legislators with your concerns?
Gone to the State capital?

Another notch down...

How many of you have attended City Council meetings and spoke your piece?

Or go to the local school board meeting and voiced your opinions and thoughts?


Or how many of you just think "There is nothing that I can do that will make any difference?"

UserPostedImage








All of the above before I was 40. Pretty much none of the above since then (roughly 15 years).

Here's my (ex post) rationalization:

Most such forms of "citizen action" are now limited to "getting the government to do something about X". IMO, what is needed is people saying to government "stop doing X...and Y...and ... and get the fuck out of my life." People who sit in legislatures, city councils, school boards -- these people are all about doing stuff.

So I suppose you'd call this a variation on "nothing I can do will make any difference". But, ISTM, its something far different. What we need is not using citizen participation to make a difference in what government does. What we need is citizens who do things without thinking they have to go to the state first.

As long as this country emphasizes empowerment (even self-empowerment) in the political processes, it will continue to move in the wrong direction. What this country needs to emphasize is taking power away. Not taking it away and giving it to someone else. Taking it away, period.
None of the above. It wouldn't have been a wasted vote. Obama and Romney -- Those were the wasted votes.
Offline vikesrule  
#409 Posted : Thursday, November 15, 2012 4:55:13 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Wade Go to Quoted Post
...As long as this country emphasizes empowerment (even self-empowerment) in the political processes, it will continue to move in the wrong direction. What this country needs to emphasize is taking power away. Not taking it away and giving it to someone else. Taking it away, period.


So correct me if I am wrong here my amigo, but what you are proposing is that you are relying on everyone to do the "right or correct" thing?

Offline Wade  
#410 Posted : Thursday, November 15, 2012 6:44:33 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: vikesrule Go to Quoted Post
So correct me if I am wrong here my amigo, but what you are proposing is that you are relying on everyone to do the "right or correct" thing?



Not at all.

My point would be twofold: First, putting someone in the "government" doesn't increase the probability that they will do the "right or correct thing". Individuals are what they are. Putting them in government merely gives them power to decide things that they otherwise wouldn't be able to decide. Second, power to those who would not do "correct" is like light to a moth. The power that state action represents attracts those who would control the decisions of others, those who do not trust others to make choices on their own behalf.

That's what makes it such an insidious temptress. We all wish others would behave differently. Sometimes this is because we see things better than the others do. More often, however, we simply don't see the problems with our own way of behaving. Political empowerment simply encourages us in our arrogance and our delusion.

People won't always do the right thing. People can and will be vain, self-absorbed, stupid, ignorant, short-sighted, wrong-headed, unthinking, corrupt, and delusional. Man is fallen.

Giving more of us the opportunity to govern merely makes it easier for us to give vent to our vanities, our self-absorptions, our stupidities, our ignorances, our short-sightednesses, our wrong-headednesss, our unthinking characters, our corruptions, and our delusions.

Some government is, alas, a necessity for us. But it is also a necessity that necessarily brings with it evil. We ought never to forget that. We may need to accept a smaller evil to prevent a larger one from time to time. But we ought not to embrace what inherently appeals to the fallen and corruptible in all of us as our default mechanism.

Caesar cannot be avoided. But that doesn't mean he should be embraced. Much less emulated.

We who would elevate "the people" to Caesar are embracing Nero as inevitable.

Treating the state as a jack-of-all-trades problem solver merely strengthens the temptations we ought to be resisting. And it takes us from being fallen toward being evil.

It takes us in the wrong direction.

I don't rely on people to "do the right thing." I simply recognize that giving a person the imprimatur of Caesar makes it no more likely that he will do the right thing, and probably makes it less likely.



None of the above. It wouldn't have been a wasted vote. Obama and Romney -- Those were the wasted votes.
Offline Cheesey  
#411 Posted : Thursday, November 15, 2012 12:27:55 PM(UTC)
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Seriously, I love all you guys, (and gals!).
That's the great thing about America.....we still have to right to voice our opinions, whether you agree with them or not.
I have gotton to know most of you pretty well, and i'd stand side by side and defend each of you in a fight.
I really do have the hope that the next 4 years will be alot better then the last 4. In the end, that's what i want, is America to grow and prosper. I don't care WHO is in office if the end results is that we as a people grow stronger.
Heck.....i think Vikesrule even says he still loves me! (The feeling is mutual, i might add.....although i won't do an "Elmo" on you!)Big Grin
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thanks Post received 1 applause.
4PackGirl on 11/15/2012(UTC)
Offline Pack93z  
#412 Posted : Tuesday, November 20, 2012 11:32:24 PM(UTC)
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NSFW..
The wolves will never lose sleep over the feelings of the sheep.

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thanks Post received 1 applause.
Zero2Cool on 11/21/2012(UTC)
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