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Offline Since69  
#16 Posted : Sunday, November 25, 2012 10:02:09 PM(UTC)
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Why, why, why is James Campen still employed? Have we had a decent line since 2007? Even in 2010, Aaron was running for his life.
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Pack93z on 11/25/2012(UTC), play2win on 11/26/2012(UTC)
Offline play2win  
#17 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 7:40:35 AM(UTC)
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Those are worthy questions, Since.

If the philosophy of "next man up" is your mantra, shouldn't the next man up be ready to carry out his assignments?

Personally, I think it is a combination of poor OL coaching, and oppr play calling that fails to emphasize a power rushing attack.
Offline musccy  
#18 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 7:51:34 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Those are worthy questions, Since.

If the philosophy of "next man up" is your mantra, shouldn't the next man up be ready to carry out his assignments?

Personally, I think it is a combination of poor OL coaching, and oppr play calling that fails to emphasize a power rushing attack.



The next man up is cute rhetoric, but in reality it doesn't mean much. Your starters are starters for a reason - they're more talented, faster, quicker, stronger, more instinctive. If Harrell or Driver were forced into the position of "next man up" we could preach the mantra all we want, but would you really expect the same production?

Offline play2win  
#19 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 8:06:21 AM(UTC)
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Uh, I didn't call it that. I know there are greater and lesser talents on all teams that fill out the roster. The point is, even our starters have failed, miserably, against top pass rushes when we don't commit to the run.

1. Get your guys ready to run block.
2. Call the running plays that allow your guys to run block.
3. Win.

How hard is that?
Offline DakotaT  
#20 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 8:09:46 AM(UTC)
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I think Lang should go back to guard, EDS moved to center and bring in Barclay to play RT with a tight end next him. Saturday is done - and we are just fooling ourselves thinking we can get another season out of him.

I was pissed that we didn't draft a center when it was a definite weakness going into the season.
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Since69 on 11/30/2012(UTC)
Offline Zero2Cool  
#21 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 8:12:24 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
I was pissed that we didn't draft a center when it was a definite weakness going into the season.


It really doesn't matter who is drafted if the coaches can't coach them up properly. Why don't you folks realize this? It is not that complicated. Drop the whole draft more OL rhetoric until a new OL coach is brought in. Until then, it is nothing but a wasted draft pick.


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Porforis on 11/26/2012(UTC)
Offline musccy  
#22 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 8:16:04 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
I think Lang should go back to guard, EDS moved to center and bring in Barclay to play RT with a tight end next him. Saturday is done - and we are just fooling ourselves thinking we can get another season out of him.

I was pissed that we didn't draft a center when it was a definite weakness going into the season.


Agreed - it's scary to think how far away this team is in the OL. I'm not too worried about the guard play with Lang, Sitton, and possibly EDS, but beyond that I have minimal to no confidence in any talent at tackle (Bulaga, Newhouse, or Sherrod) and even the most optomisitic critique of Saturday would be that he's a 1 year gum in a leaking dam "fix."



Offline Rios39  
#23 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 8:17:50 AM(UTC)
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Today the rush was mostly all coming from the outside. I thought Osi gives us more problems than JPP, more pure speed off the edge.
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Offline DakotaT  
#24 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 8:18:46 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
It really doesn't matter who is drafted if the coaches can't coach them up properly. Why don't you folks realize this? It is not that complicated. Drop the whole draft more OL rhetoric until a new OL coach is brought in. Until then, it is nothing but a wasted draft pick.



It's more than just replacing Campen. We need to spend a high draft pick on an interior lineman for once, instead of waiting until the sixth round. Your point is warranted and I agree with it, but you can't turn dogshit into patte. You have to have some talent. Rewatch the games this year and watch how Saturday gets pushed into the pocket. It's embarrassing.
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Offline musccy  
#25 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 8:22:10 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Uh, I didn't call it that. I know there are greater and lesser talents on all teams that fill out the roster. The point is, even our starters have failed, miserably, against top pass rushes when we don't commit to the run.

1. Get your guys ready to run block.
2. Call the running plays that allow your guys to run block.
3. Win.

How hard is that?


If it were that easy, everyone in the league would have a 100 yard rusher each game. I'm sure Campen is an issue, but aside from Lang and Sitton at guard, I have virtually no confidence in anyone else on the roster at any other OL position. They seemingly can't pull, move for screens, hell they were manhandled in a 3 man rush at times last night. Every f'n draft pick in 2013 should be on an OL - well maybe one pick on a WR capable of beating a 5'9" corner pressing at the line wouldn't hurt.

Offline Zero2Cool  
#26 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 8:29:10 AM(UTC)
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LT
T.J. Lang
C
Josh Sitton
Bryan Bulaga


C is obviously a need and they are grooming Saturday's backup.
LT is hopefully going to be adequately filled by Derek Sherrod.


Marshall Newhouse (my thoughts) is an serviceable backup T at either position to finish a game.


Howie Long says Bulaga is the best RT in the game, so I'm going to defer to his expertise on that.

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nerdmann on 11/26/2012(UTC)
Offline Porforis  
#27 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 9:26:00 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
It really doesn't matter who is drafted if the coaches can't coach them up properly. Why don't you folks realize this? It is not that complicated. Drop the whole draft more OL rhetoric until a new OL coach is brought in. Until then, it is nothing but a wasted draft pick.


That.
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Offline Yerko  
#28 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 9:26:04 AM(UTC)
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I think it is a bit overboard to say we need to draft all offensive lineman in the next draft.
Bulaga is a good RT and minus some of his bad play this season, he has been just fine.
Sitton is the best lineman we have.
Lang is just fine at left guard...his play at right tackle is giving people a bad taste in their mouth.

Left tackle and center are the two positions in question. You can cancel out drafting a left tackle since we have a 1st round pick in Sherrod still waiting to play. Who knows what he will do when he is given that chance next season. Newhouse blows, that I will agree with. He is just as big of a wet fart as Webb on the Bears.
Center is an obvious need for this team. Saturday was a temporary fix that will not work past this season. He is just getting worked over and over again. At this point, I would take a top center in the draft and throw him into the mix immediately over another year with Jeff Saturday.
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Offline musccy  
#29 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 9:39:47 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Yerko Go to Quoted Post
I think it is a bit overboard to say we need to draft all offensive lineman in the next draft.
Bulaga is a good RT and minus some of his bad play this season, he has been just fine.
Sitton is the best lineman we have.
Lang is just fine at left guard...his play at right tackle is giving people a bad taste in their mouth.

Left tackle and center are the two positions in question. You can cancel out drafting a left tackle since we have a 1st round pick in Sherrod still waiting to play. Who knows what he will do when he is given that chance next season. Newhouse blows, that I will agree with. He is just as big of a wet fart as Webb on the Bears.
Center is an obvious need for this team. Saturday was a temporary fix that will not work past this season. He is just getting worked over and over again. At this point, I would take a top center in the draft and throw him into the mix immediately over another year with Jeff Saturday.


I was speaking facetiously about using every pick on an OL, but at the bare minimum this team needs a solution at LT and C and I'm not confident that solution is on the roster right now.

Dakota mentioned EDS at center, I'd be curious about that myself, but that's far from a sure fire solution.
Offline Pack93z  
#30 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 9:55:15 AM(UTC)
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Of course they were dominated last night, but it is not solely an offensive line talent problem.

I will remain in the corner that much of the struggles fall upon Campen's feet, and that sets in motion a Mike McCarthy mindset that he has to pass often.

We actually moved the ball decently when we ran balanced.. and the offensive line could even up the advantage a bit.

I disagree with the analysis on Newhouse, he is developing nicely at left tackle, far from the worst issue upon the line. Really, I think much of the issue start with the center over the last couple of seasons.. Wells couldn't get a ton of push due to size, and Saturday is a step back there in terms of running the ball.

Put an ass kicking Center in the middle of this line so that we can consistently open holes up the middle and this entire line improves instantly.

Of course there are more issues than just that, but I truly don't think we are that far away. 4 of the 5 spots are in good hands. And yes, that includes Newhouse.

Newhouse struggles with speed especially on turf.. give him a chip block in terms of help on the edge so he can get set up and he accounts for himself just fine. The problem we have currently, is they are trying to help Lang on the edge as well.. and with our open sets, can't help both.

Bulaga's injury was especially detrimental with us rolling the dice with Sherrod and not much else at depth there. It bit us square.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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