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Zero2Cool  
#21 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 8:12:24 AM(UTC)
DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
I was pissed that we didn't draft a center when it was a definite weakness going into the season.


It really doesn't matter who is drafted if the coaches can't coach them up properly. Why don't you folks realize this? It is not that complicated. Drop the whole draft more OL rhetoric until a new OL coach is brought in. Until then, it is nothing but a wasted draft pick.

musccy  
#22 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 8:16:04 AM(UTC)
DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
I think Lang should go back to guard, EDS moved to center and bring in Barclay to play RT with a tight end next him. Saturday is done - and we are just fooling ourselves thinking we can get another season out of him.

I was pissed that we didn't draft a center when it was a definite weakness going into the season.


Agreed - it's scary to think how far away this team is in the OL. I'm not too worried about the guard play with Lang, Sitton, and possibly EDS, but beyond that I have minimal to no confidence in any talent at tackle (Bulaga, Newhouse, or Sherrod) and even the most optomisitic critique of Saturday would be that he's a 1 year gum in a leaking dam "fix."



Rios39  
#23 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 8:17:50 AM(UTC)
Today the rush was mostly all coming from the outside. I thought Osi gives us more problems than JPP, more pure speed off the edge.
User is suspended until 5/28/2018 11:54:40 AM(UTC) DakotaT  
#24 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 8:18:46 AM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
It really doesn't matter who is drafted if the coaches can't coach them up properly. Why don't you folks realize this? It is not that complicated. Drop the whole draft more OL rhetoric until a new OL coach is brought in. Until then, it is nothing but a wasted draft pick.



It's more than just replacing Campen. We need to spend a high draft pick on an interior lineman for once, instead of waiting until the sixth round. Your point is warranted and I agree with it, but you can't turn dogshit into patte. You have to have some talent. Rewatch the games this year and watch how Saturday gets pushed into the pocket. It's embarrassing.
musccy  
#25 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 8:22:10 AM(UTC)
play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
Uh, I didn't call it that. I know there are greater and lesser talents on all teams that fill out the roster. The point is, even our starters have failed, miserably, against top pass rushes when we don't commit to the run.

1. Get your guys ready to run block.
2. Call the running plays that allow your guys to run block.
3. Win.

How hard is that?


If it were that easy, everyone in the league would have a 100 yard rusher each game. I'm sure Campen is an issue, but aside from Lang and Sitton at guard, I have virtually no confidence in anyone else on the roster at any other OL position. They seemingly can't pull, move for screens, hell they were manhandled in a 3 man rush at times last night. Every f'n draft pick in 2013 should be on an OL - well maybe one pick on a WR capable of beating a 5'9" corner pressing at the line wouldn't hurt.

Zero2Cool  
#26 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 8:29:10 AM(UTC)
LT
T.J. Lang
C
Josh Sitton
Bryan Bulaga


C is obviously a need and they are grooming Saturday's backup.
LT is hopefully going to be adequately filled by Derek Sherrod.


Marshall Newhouse (my thoughts) is an serviceable backup T at either position to finish a game.


Howie Long says Bulaga is the best RT in the game, so I'm going to defer to his expertise on that.
Porforis  
#27 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 9:26:00 AM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
It really doesn't matter who is drafted if the coaches can't coach them up properly. Why don't you folks realize this? It is not that complicated. Drop the whole draft more OL rhetoric until a new OL coach is brought in. Until then, it is nothing but a wasted draft pick.


That.
Yerko  
#28 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 9:26:04 AM(UTC)
I think it is a bit overboard to say we need to draft all offensive lineman in the next draft.
Bulaga is a good RT and minus some of his bad play this season, he has been just fine.
Sitton is the best lineman we have.
Lang is just fine at left guard...his play at right tackle is giving people a bad taste in their mouth.

Left tackle and center are the two positions in question. You can cancel out drafting a left tackle since we have a 1st round pick in Sherrod still waiting to play. Who knows what he will do when he is given that chance next season. Newhouse blows, that I will agree with. He is just as big of a wet fart as Webb on the Bears.
Center is an obvious need for this team. Saturday was a temporary fix that will not work past this season. He is just getting worked over and over again. At this point, I would take a top center in the draft and throw him into the mix immediately over another year with Jeff Saturday.
musccy  
#29 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 9:39:47 AM(UTC)
Yerko said: Go to Quoted Post
I think it is a bit overboard to say we need to draft all offensive lineman in the next draft.
Bulaga is a good RT and minus some of his bad play this season, he has been just fine.
Sitton is the best lineman we have.
Lang is just fine at left guard...his play at right tackle is giving people a bad taste in their mouth.

Left tackle and center are the two positions in question. You can cancel out drafting a left tackle since we have a 1st round pick in Sherrod still waiting to play. Who knows what he will do when he is given that chance next season. Newhouse blows, that I will agree with. He is just as big of a wet fart as Webb on the Bears.
Center is an obvious need for this team. Saturday was a temporary fix that will not work past this season. He is just getting worked over and over again. At this point, I would take a top center in the draft and throw him into the mix immediately over another year with Jeff Saturday.


I was speaking facetiously about using every pick on an OL, but at the bare minimum this team needs a solution at LT and C and I'm not confident that solution is on the roster right now.

Dakota mentioned EDS at center, I'd be curious about that myself, but that's far from a sure fire solution.
Pack93z  
#30 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 9:55:15 AM(UTC)
Of course they were dominated last night, but it is not solely an offensive line talent problem.

I will remain in the corner that much of the struggles fall upon Campen's feet, and that sets in motion a Mike McCarthy mindset that he has to pass often.

We actually moved the ball decently when we ran balanced.. and the offensive line could even up the advantage a bit.

I disagree with the analysis on Newhouse, he is developing nicely at left tackle, far from the worst issue upon the line. Really, I think much of the issue start with the center over the last couple of seasons.. Wells couldn't get a ton of push due to size, and Saturday is a step back there in terms of running the ball.

Put an ass kicking Center in the middle of this line so that we can consistently open holes up the middle and this entire line improves instantly.

Of course there are more issues than just that, but I truly don't think we are that far away. 4 of the 5 spots are in good hands. And yes, that includes Newhouse.

Newhouse struggles with speed especially on turf.. give him a chip block in terms of help on the edge so he can get set up and he accounts for himself just fine. The problem we have currently, is they are trying to help Lang on the edge as well.. and with our open sets, can't help both.

Bulaga's injury was especially detrimental with us rolling the dice with Sherrod and not much else at depth there. It bit us square.
PackerTraxx  
#31 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 10:02:31 AM(UTC)
musccy said: Go to Quoted Post
The next man up is cute rhetoric, but in reality it doesn't mean much. Your starters are starters for a reason - they're more talented, faster, quicker, stronger, more instinctive. If Harrell or Driver were forced into the position of "next man up" we could preach the mantra all we want, but would you really expect the same production?



This...and it shows more blatantly when you play good teams.
nerdmann  
#32 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 10:08:00 AM(UTC)
Ted always leaves us dangerously thin at one position or another.

This year was OL.

And QB...
Zero2Cool  
#33 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 10:13:26 AM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
Ted always leaves us dangerously thin at one position or another.

This year was OL.

And QB...


I agree, I think Mark Murphy should find a better General Manager. Ted Thompson is failing to have starting caliber backups at all 22 starting positions and can easily be replaced.
play2win  
#34 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 10:33:44 AM(UTC)
musccy said: Go to Quoted Post
If it were that easy, everyone in the league would have a 100 yard rusher each game. I'm sure Campen is an issue, but aside from Lang and Sitton at guard, I have virtually no confidence in anyone else on the roster at any other OL position. They seemingly can't pull, move for screens, hell they were manhandled in a 3 man rush at times last night. Every f'n draft pick in 2013 should be on an OL - well maybe one pick on a WR capable of beating a 5'9" corner pressing at the line wouldn't hurt.



This is crazy talk.

Our #1 problem at OL is: COACHING. Plain and simple.

We have drafted OL with our #1 pick twice in the last 3 years. Bulaga with the 23rd pick in 2010. Sherrod with the 32nd pick in the 2011 draft. Let's face it, our coaches (Campen and Hilgenberg) are not coaching this OL properly, and McCarthy and Clements are not calling the plays properly to put our team in a position to win.

It is really simple. Get your guys together, tell them we are going to run at the opponent 55% of our plays. Then, fucking call those plays and let your guys tee off!

Alex Green alone should have had 22 carries. Starks should have that or close to that too. Guess what? We would have won, and our OL would have gotten the game ball.

We should have punched NYG in the mouth. Instead, we absorbed their rush with devastating consequences, putting our players mostly in pass protection. The play calling alone made them look like a bunch of pansies. You cannot absorb that from a quality DL, on a mission, and expect to win. No team can.
play2win  
#35 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 10:36:46 AM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
I agree, I think Mark Murphy should find a better General Manager. Ted Thompson is failing to have starting caliber backups at all 22 starting positions and can easily be replaced.


i don't think that's fair. Ted has to own his part of the blame with regard to positions he left thin. And we all know he left BOTH DL and OL depth thin on the final 53. I , personally, cannot believe he did not find an adequate backup at NT for this season. That blows my mind.
Zero2Cool  
#36 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 10:40:43 AM(UTC)
play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
i don't think that's fair. Ted has to own his part of the blame with regard to positions he left thin. And we all know he left BOTH DL and OL depth thin on the final 53. I , personally, cannot believe he did not find an adequate backup at NT for this season. That blows my mind.


You want to talk about being fair? Check the injury report. You can find flaws with EVERY single GM in the NFL. Is it really fair to lack objectivity and reason when saying someone is failing in their profession?

No one is absolving the GM of responsibility, but expecting 22 starting quality backup's is freaking absurd expectations.
play2win  
#37 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 10:47:01 AM(UTC)
I love Ted, and I think he's been an amazing GM for us. I like McCarthy too. Hey, this staff of his got an inordinate amount of rookies to step up and play very well.

I'm just saying there are a couple of areas that are in fact on the GM. OL and DL depth. To start the season, both were left quite thin, were they not? Now, we've got atrophy on both lines, and questions looming about how to fill in the blanks. I'm not railing on Thompson, not at all. But, he left us thin in the trenches, where most teams win in this NFL.

The kicker for me is the DL. We needed pass rush. That was paramount after last season. Why, why, why leave your DL thin to start the season?

As for the OL, I happen to think we wouldn't even be talking about it if they were coached up to smash the Giants in the mouth for 4 quarters of run dominated offense.
Pack93z  
#38 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 10:54:37 AM(UTC)
play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
I love Ted, and I think he's been an amazing GM for us. I like McCarthy too. Hey, this staff of his got an inordinate amount of rookies to step up and play very well.

I'm just saying there are a couple of areas that are in fact on the GM. OL and DL depth. To start the season, both were left quite thin, were they not? Now, we've got atrophy on both lines, and questions looming about how to fill in the blanks. I'm not railing on Thompson, not at all. But, he left us thin in the trenches, where most teams win in this NFL.

The kicker for me is the DL. We needed pass rush. That was paramount after last season. Why, why, why leave your DL thin to start the season?

As for the OL, I happen to think we wouldn't even be talking about it if they were coached up to smash the Giants in the mouth for 4 quarters of run dominated offense.


I will disagree with the premise that we don't have better DL depth than last season.. the numbers simply tell us that we have a better rotation than last season. See the defensive comparison thread.
musccy  
#39 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 11:08:37 AM(UTC)
play2win said: Go to Quoted Post


The kicker for me is the DL. We needed pass rush. That was paramount after last season. Why, why, why leave your DL thin to start the season?



You can blame Ted et al for not drafting well, but not for a lack of an attempt to address this. He brought in Muir, a former 2nd rounder from the Dolphins, Hargrove, drafted Worthy, Daniels, and 2 LBs to help with the pass rush. Their was certainly a recognition of a flaw and an attempt to fix it.

play2win  
#40 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 11:09:54 AM(UTC)
Pack93z said: Go to Quoted Post
I will disagree with the premise that we don't have better DL depth than last season.. the numbers simply tell us that we have a better rotation than last season. See the defensive comparison thread.


I should have stuck with NT Pack93z. I just have not been thrilled with the idea of leaving Raji and Pick without proper backup.

I expected more from Worthy and Neal. Those two disappointed me against the Giants.
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