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Pack93z  
#41 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 11:18:47 AM(UTC)
play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
I should have stuck with NT Pack93z. I just have not been thrilled with the idea of leaving Raji and Pick without proper backup.

I expected more from Worthy and Neal. Those two disappointed me against the Giants.


I could point to trying to play nickel with a 2 man front and getting destroyed off guard.. but that would be making an excuse.

The guy that really had a bad game.. Brad Jones. He got tied up in traffic very often last night. Moses played decently, Walden showed he was nicked up. Hawk played another good game. Pickett was stout inside.. Raji was hit and miss. Daniels size was exposed a bit.. Neal is what he is, a up field player that can be beat at the point. Worthy I though played solid but didn't make a play all night.

I think we are starting to see that attrition bleed though with the loss of Bishop and Smith to injury.. we just can't rotate like we need to there.

I still will say we have better rotation overall in the defensive front.. but playing Pickett and Raji as much as we do is an issue.. but what else do you want them to do.. they are two of the best options we have.

I am not as concerned with the defense long term as I am with Mike McCarthy vs the offensive line limitations currently with play mix verse playoff caliber pass rushes. Notably, the Niners and the Giants.

To me.. there is a huge drop off past those two.. including us.

beast  
#42 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 11:20:01 AM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
Ted always leaves us dangerously thin at one position or another.

This year was OL.

And QB...


Every team is always dangerously thin at one position group or another...

Often times for the Packers lately it has been linemen, on one side of the ball or the other. But the Packers have done a pretty good job with their "skilled" positions (aka non-linemen (I still disagree with that phase but it's caught on))

And we've got talent on the lines... but they're not getting the job done (coaching maybe?). And on the OL, the two most talented OTs are injured (Bulaga and Sherrod... Newhouse might be better right now than Sherrod but I think Sherrod has more pure talent).

What this team needs is a running game... and to get a running game they need at least a very good RB and a better run blocking OL... Lang and Sitton might be good enough to get that done at OG, but Saturday needs upgraded, Newhouse needs to get upgraded, Bulaga and Sherrod needs to get 100% healthy and play up to their potential.

RB Green doesn't seem to be able to read his blocks and doesn't have much power. Starks has power but seems to get into Mike McCarthy dog house and get injured at times.
nerdmann  
#43 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 11:51:26 AM(UTC)
I think we're fine at NT.

We keep 6 DL. Two at each position.

NTs are Pickett and Raji. Pickett is the run stuffer, Raji is the pass rusher.
QCHuskerFan  
#44 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 11:52:37 AM(UTC)
play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
This is crazy talk.

Our #1 problem at OL is: COACHING. Plain and simple.

We have drafted OL with our #1 pick twice in the last 3 years. Bulaga with the 23rd pick in 2010. Sherrod with the 32nd pick in the 2011 draft. Let's face it, our coaches (Campen and Hilgenberg) are not coaching this OL properly, and McCarthy and Clements are not calling the plays properly to put our team in a position to win.

It is really simple. Get your guys together, tell them we are going to run at the opponent 55% of our plays. Then, fucking call those plays and let your guys tee off!

Alex Green alone should have had 22 carries. Starks should have that or close to that too. Guess what? We would have won, and our OL would have gotten the game ball.

We should have punched NYG in the mouth. Instead, we absorbed their rush with devastating consequences, putting our players mostly in pass protection. The play calling alone made them look like a bunch of pansies. You cannot absorb that from a quality DL, on a mission, and expect to win. No team can.


Our #1 problem at OL is not coaching. It's injury/talent. 2 of our last 3 first round picks, arguably the most talented players in each draft, are injured and not playing. And it is the coaches fault that our line is struggling? They are working with less talented players and, naturally, getting less out of them. Are people really suggesting that it is the coaches fault that Saturday is not a dominating player? I haven't heard anybody say that. Most people are saying that he is too old. So how is that Campen's fault?

How was our pass rush last night? Crappy. Would it have been better with Matthews in the game. I believe so. Why? Would Greene or Capers all of a sudden been better coaches? No. But you would have an incredibly talented player in the game. Talent makes a difference.

Is Aaron Rodgers the MVP because his coach was the best in the world or is he the MVP because he is immensely talented and driven? He may have a great QB coach, but he is a stud player and that is why he is MVP.

The game against the Giants was exactly the wrong type of game to have. When the Pack got down early, it allowed the Giants to ignore the run game and rush the passer with abandon. When you have a 20pt lead, who cares if you give up 7-8 yard runs? So that type of game put our weakness in the oline on display. Does anybody besides me think that our oline performance would have been better if the Pack D hadn't allowed the Giants to score at will and build a big lead?

Unquestionably, all facets of the coaching staff can be better. But so can all levels of our players. And so can all levels of every business in the world. Perfection is not attainable.
Rockmolder  
#45 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 12:11:47 PM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
I think we're fine at NT.

We keep 6 DL. Two at each position.

NTs are Pickett and Raji. Pickett is the run stuffer, Raji is the pass rusher.


I think that we're fine, as well. What team has more than two capable bodies at NT? We just happen to have our backup play DE, as well.

I'm quite disapointed in the way the Packers played yesterday, as well, but how many teams would manage to get an o-line function properly when your starting RT is on IR, your back-up T still isn't able to play, your guard has to move to T and a third year UDFA has to play G.

To be fair, after knowing that Sherrod would be out for such a long time, we should've taken a look on the waiver wire and try to get a bit deeper with either a veteran tackle or guard, but there are very few o-lines in this league that could survive two tackles going down.

Then, combining that with your nr. 1 receiver being out, that makes for a pretty tough situation for any offense.

The defense is even extremer, with two of your best players out, your only other OLB who seemed to have a chance at rushing the passer and a starting corner. I'd like to see how that Denver defense does when Dumervil and Miller get injured, joining Tracy Porter.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't look for depth at those positions, it's just that you can't possibly have every single position covered depth-wise.

RajiRoar  
#46 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 12:18:35 PM(UTC)
As easy as it is to goat our OL, Rodgers and McCarthy have done them no favors this year.

(Holding the ball, not throwing short, calling long developing routes)
Rockmolder  
#47 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 12:19:46 PM(UTC)
RajiRoar said: Go to Quoted Post
As easy as it is to goat our OL, Rodgers and McCarthy have done them no favors this year.

(Holding the ball, not throwing short, calling long developing routes)


I saw a ton of quick outs, sticks etc. None of our guys where getting any kind of seperation, though. Not that weird when they can constantly rush just four and get to Aaron in a second or three.
beast  
#48 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 12:33:54 PM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
I think we're fine at NT.

We keep 6 DL. Two at each position.

NTs are Pickett and Raji. Pickett is the run stuffer, Raji is the pass rusher.


Honestly I thought that for a while... but has Raji been getting any pass rush lately?

I'm a big Pickett fan and think he's underrated but this DL doesn't seem to be getting the job done as whole. Don't get me wrong it's been decent to good at times. But there hasn't been any real stand out players the last two years, just consistently slightly above average guys...

And for the record I have noticed they have changed the defense some, being more conservative with the DL, protecting the LB more going to a more traditional 3-4 defense like the Patriots used to run. BUT even with Capers lets the dogs loose playing in the aggressive styles like he has the last couple of years... they not really getting too much pressure other than against bad OL (like the Lions RG, which they took a bad OL and made him look horrible.).
Pack93z  
#49 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 1:00:52 PM(UTC)
Rockmolder said: Go to Quoted Post
I saw a ton of quick outs, sticks etc. None of our guys where getting any kind of seperation, though. Not that weird when they can constantly rush just four and get to Aaron in a second or three.


Exactly, I think that is what is being underlooked last night.. the receivers were getting handled in the jam and couple that with a defense that could let loose on the pass rush after we got down.. it was the perfect storm.

They and the rest of the NFL knows are MO.. we will abandon the run at some point if pushed. I had hope that we stick with it and stay patient. That pick was a killer that put a little panic in MM.

We are not as bad as that game indicated.. but we definitely have work to do. Cowherd called us frauds.. and beyond Rodgers a pathetic team. I hope those statements hit the locker room.. that and the late 4th down tries.

DarkaneRules  
#50 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 3:40:43 PM(UTC)
Well I mean fraud is harsh but we are certainly not super bowl contenders with the team we took out on the field yesterday.
nerdmann  
#51 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 4:39:45 PM(UTC)
Rockmolder said: Go to Quoted Post
I saw a ton of quick outs, sticks etc. None of our guys where getting any kind of seperation, though. Not that weird when they can constantly rush just four and get to Aaron in a second or three.


I think Greg Jennings might be more valuable than anyone realizes.

But I also don't think Mike McCarthy called the best game yesterday, by his own admission.
nerdmann  
#52 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 5:57:00 PM(UTC)
Micheal Rodney's Twitter:

Quote:
It's always a risk playing a rookie, but at least Barclay has a chance to improve. EDS is a journeyman who has maxed out.


He's suggesting giving Barlay a shot over EDS.
coltonja  
#53 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 6:20:14 PM(UTC)
We have a player who has never started at LG, a short term replacement(hopefully) at LT, and a player that has moved around the line since we brought him here at RT. And we went up against the best d-line in the NFL. Please, let's just throw everyone away. We could probably sign a better OL from the street. We could even bring back Clifton.

The Giants owned us last year when we had our most concrete line for years. Did we really expect to go in and dominate the trenches? There's one way to beat the Giants (and any other D as dominate as them), there must be some form of respect for the run. Balance is fine and dandy against the middle of the pack but having a quality run game is vital against teams like the 9'ers and Giants.

We may not see the Giants again this year. But if we do, I guarantee it will be a different team on our side of things for a couple of reasons-
1) The return of players- including Ced
2) A team that isn't apathetic- I believe our team came out entirely flat and read Randall Cobb said that after the game
nerdmann  
#54 Posted : Tuesday, November 27, 2012 11:14:13 PM(UTC)
Micheal Rodney's Twitter:


Quote:
Pro Football Focus: When Rodgers had 2.6 seconds or more vs. NYG, his QB rating was 125.9. With 2.5 seconds or less, his QB rating was 25.9.
gbguy20  
#55 Posted : Wednesday, November 28, 2012 10:52:27 AM(UTC)
coltonja said: Go to Quoted Post
We have a player who has never started at LG, a short term replacement(hopefully) at LT, and a player that has moved around the line since we brought him here at RT. And we went up against the best d-line in the NFL. Please, let's just throw everyone away. We could probably sign a better OL from the street. We could even bring back Clifton.

The Giants owned us last year when we had our most concrete line for years. Did we really expect to go in and dominate the trenches? There's one way to beat the Giants (and any other D as dominate as them), there must be some form of respect for the run. Balance is fine and dandy against the middle of the pack but having a quality run game is vital against teams like the 9'ers and Giants.

We may not see the Giants again this year. But if we do, I guarantee it will be a different team on our side of things for a couple of reasons-
1) The return of players- including Ced
2) A team that isn't apathetic- I believe our team came out entirely flat and read Randall Cobb said that after the game


1) Doesn't sound like Ced is going to be returning.
2) Our team came out flat last year in playoffs. Our team came out flat Sunday in a game that they should have all been pumped for. Why are you sure they won't do the same shit again?
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