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Offline Zero2Cool  
#1 Posted : Sunday, December 9, 2012 3:26:40 PM(UTC)
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We see several folks constantly whine "Ted draft OL!!", and I've been saying (along with others) that it's not the need to draft OL that is where attention needs to be sought ... it's at the COACHING the drafted players! I used to be in the camp that Ted can't draft OL. That changed a couple years ago to the Packers can't COACH OL players anymore. You just can't miss THAT many times.

Code:

2012 	7th Andrew Datko*

2011 	1st Derek Sherrod *
2011 	6th Caleb Schlauderaff 

2010 	1st Bryan Bulaga *
2010 	5th Marshall Newhouse*

2009 	4th T.J. Lang*  	
2009 	5thJamon Meredith

2008 	4th Josh Sitton*
2008 	5th Breno Giacomini

2007 	4th Allen Barbre

2006 	2nd Daryn Colledge 
2006 	3rd Jason Spitz  
2006 	5th Tony Moll

2005 	5th Junius Coston  
2005 	7th Will Whitticker
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Offline zombieslayer  
#2 Posted : Sunday, December 9, 2012 3:31:52 PM(UTC)
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Pack93z knows OL way better than I do.

But I stand by what I said in another thread - Ted Thompson is off the hook. He's done his job. He's drafted OL.
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nerdmann on 12/9/2012(UTC)
Offline nerdmann  
#3 Posted : Sunday, December 9, 2012 3:50:11 PM(UTC)
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First of all, Mike was asking for "smaller, quicker" guys.

So that's what Ted got him.

For the past few years, Mike's relented to asking for "bigger, stronger" guys. Since then, Ted's looked much better, because a higher percentage of those guys have worked out. We've got some guys out with injury, but they are in the pipeline. We've also got sufficient depth (not to jinx us) that we are still in the race.

But yes, I think we could do better than Campen.

Right now it behooves our QB to get the ball out in under 8 seconds.

JSO

Quote:
Sustain the long drive. Aaron Rodgers did a great job last week against the Vikings by staying patient and decisive underneath a two-safety shell. Rodgers finished 27 of 35 and made the throws necessary to string together a game-clinching 11-minute drive. On the 18-play drive, Rodgers converted a trio of third downs. Lions defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham, who didn't blitz at all against the Packers a few weeks ago, will try to test Rodgers' patience again.
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Offline gbguy20  
#4 Posted : Sunday, December 9, 2012 4:50:56 PM(UTC)
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coach sucks
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Offline wpr  
#5 Posted : Sunday, December 9, 2012 5:11:48 PM(UTC)
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just look at when they drafted most of the players. Until Sherrod & Bulaga the only players they took above the 4th round came in 2006. It is hard to build a quality line when you are constantly using leftover spare parts. Even the best coaches will have problems developing a Pro Bowl player if they have nothing to work with.

Once Sherrod & Bulaga come back from their injuries (in 2013) the tackle positions will be solid. Lang and Sitton will do fine at G and then all they need to do is to find a quality center.
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Offline nerdmann  
#6 Posted : Sunday, December 9, 2012 5:15:34 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
just look at when they drafted most of the players. Until Sherrod & Bulaga the only players they took above the 4th round came in 2006. It is hard to build a quality line when you are constantly using leftover spare parts. Even the best coaches will have problems developing a Pro Bowl player if they have nothing to work with.

Once Sherrod & Bulaga come back from their injuries (in 2013) the tackle positions will be solid. Lang and Sitton will do fine at G and then all they need to do is to find a quality center.


I'll say this.

If Barclay and Van Roten turn out to be players, that will make Campen look pretty good.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline DakotaT  
#7 Posted : Sunday, December 9, 2012 5:22:53 PM(UTC)
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I think the problem has more to do with injuries than anything. Sherrod had his bones in the lower leg snapped. Now that's a two year injury and very freaky to the say the least. But not to draft a center when you let Wells walk is a mistake. It would have cost Casey Hayward to get one of the better centers in the draft though. So then you're at the opportunity cost thing.
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Offline wpr  
#8 Posted : Sunday, December 9, 2012 5:37:25 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
I think the problem has more to do with injuries than anything. Sherrod had his bones in the lower leg snapped. Now that's a two year injury and very freaky to the say the least. But not to draft a center when you let Wells walk is a mistake. It would have cost Casey Hayward to get one of the better centers in the draft though. So then you're at the opportunity cost thing.


I can understand the Packers wanting to take a shot with Saturday. EDS as his backup and drafting someone next year that would take Saturday's place in 2014. They were wrong but they didn't know that in April.
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Offline nerdmann  
#9 Posted : Sunday, December 9, 2012 5:40:43 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
I can understand the Packers wanting to take a shot with Saturday. EDS as his backup and drafting someone next year that would take Saturday's place in 2014. They were wrong but they didn't know that in April.


Saturday hasn't been great, but I wouldn't say he's completely shit himself.

He's a stopgap.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#10 Posted : Sunday, December 9, 2012 5:41:25 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
Saturday hasn't been great, but I wouldn't say he's completely shit himself.

He's a stopgap.


I read in a few places that the Packers are grooming their eventual Center. Who that is? No idea.
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Offline wpr  
#11 Posted : Sunday, December 9, 2012 5:43:20 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
Saturday hasn't been great, but I wouldn't say he's completely shit himself.

He's a stopgap.


exactly.

I don't think most teams look for "great" when they pick up a center. solid, consistent and steady are the terms that come to mind when looking for a center.
That and intelligent which is what many said of Saturday.
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Offline nerdmann  
#12 Posted : Sunday, December 9, 2012 5:43:59 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
I read in a few places that the Packers are grooming their eventual Center. Who that is? No idea.


For some reason they like EDS, but I think they can upgrade.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline Pack93z  
#13 Posted : Sunday, December 9, 2012 5:47:20 PM(UTC)
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I think I might have said this a couple thousand times already.. our problem is not the talent. It falls on coaching.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline blueleopard  
#14 Posted : Sunday, December 9, 2012 5:51:57 PM(UTC)
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Hire Mike Sherman. Yes, I said it.

Oh wait, Joe Philbin did. Dammit.
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nerdmann on 12/9/2012(UTC)
Offline nerdmann  
#15 Posted : Sunday, December 9, 2012 5:59:03 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: blueleopard Go to Quoted Post
Hire Mike Sherman. Yes, I said it.

Oh wait, Joe Philbin did. Dammit.


Not quite sure, but Sherman might want another shot in the NFL.
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Offline zombieslayer  
#16 Posted : Sunday, December 9, 2012 6:30:36 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: blueleopard Go to Quoted Post
Hire Mike Sherman. Yes, I said it.

Oh wait, Joe Philbin did. Dammit.


Best OL we've had in the Favre/Rodgers years was under Sherman. Not even debatable.
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Offline DakotaT  
#17 Posted : Sunday, December 9, 2012 6:48:46 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: zombieslayer Go to Quoted Post
Best OL we've had in the Favre/Rodgers years was under Sherman. Not even debatable.


Yeah, but Favre had to wait until after he was 30 for that luxury. Kind of looks like we are doing the same for Aaron.
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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#18 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2012 9:35:54 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: zombieslayer Go to Quoted Post
Best OL we've had in the Favre/Rodgers years was under Sherman. Not even debatable.


I wouldn't credit that to Sherman for that. The best lines Favre had were drafted by Ron and was a credit to the Ts and Gs. thank you 200 Draft.

6'5" 330 Clifton
6'6" 307 Wahle
6'4" 310 Rivera
6'4" 320 Tauscher

6'4" 319 Newhouse
6'4" 305 Lang
6'4" 320 Sitton
6'5" 315 Bulaga

We have gotten close to the size we had, after Mike McCarthy wanted to go smaller right away. I would like to assume Sherrod can come back, and play. He has the frame to play in the 330 range at LT. Either move Newhouse to LT or LG, with Bulaga at the other of those. Leave Lang and Barclay as backups. Both could probably fill in any spot except C. EDS at Center. Not sure if Van Roten can play C or not.

Would have no problem with drafting a C and another LT with questions with Sherrod but not 1st or 2nd.

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Offline nerdmann  
#19 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2012 9:37:54 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
I wouldn't credit that to Sherman for that. The best lines Favre had were drafted by Ron and was a credit to the Ts and Gs. thank you 200 Draft.

6'5" 330 Clifton
6'6" 307 Wahle
6'4" 310 Rivera
6'4" 320 Tauscher

6'4" 319 Newhouse
6'4" 305 Lang
6'4" 320 Sitton
6'5" 315 Bulaga

We have gotten close to the size we had, after Mike McCarthy wanted to go smaller right away. I would like to assume Sherrod can come back, and play. He has the frame to play in the 330 range at LT. Either move Newhouse to LT or LG, with Bulaga at the other of those. Leave Lang and Barclay as backups. Both could probably fill in any spot except C. EDS at Center. Not sure if Van Roten can play C or not.

Would have no problem with drafting a C and another LT with questions with Sherrod but not 1st or 2nd.



Sherman actually did have a really good OL coach. Can't remember his name. Older guy with knee braces.

But if you'll recall, they also tried to move Wahle out to LT, which was a big disaster.

In fact as I recall, Bill Ferrario was supposed to be one of their guys. LOL. Totally flamed out. Tauscher was an afterthought. They just plugged him in as desperation and dude panned out for a decade. Cliffy too. Earl Dotson couldn't do it anymore, although Cliffy was a higher draft pick. Second round iirc.
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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#20 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2012 10:01:52 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
Sherman actually did have a really good OL coach. Can't remember his name. Older guy with knee braces.

But if you'll recall, they also tried to move Wahle out to LT, which was a big disaster.

In fact as I recall, Bill Ferrario was supposed to be one of their guys. LOL. Totally flamed out. Tauscher was an afterthought. They just plugged him in as desperation and dude panned out for a decade. Cliffy too. Earl Dotson couldn't do it anymore, although Cliffy was a higher draft pick. Second round iirc.


Not sure what they were thinking. they swapped Wahle and Verba. regardless, it worked out in the end. Not sure itis coaching though especially with the Oline. His name was Larry Beightol. I've seen it happen to many times. Lines not doing well and an injury happens and a move has to be made and CLICK.
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Offline PackerTraxx  
#21 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2012 11:09:13 AM(UTC)
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I think we have the makings of a very good line if we can get and stay healthy. Plus we have some possibilities to add depth, and maybe more, with Van Roten, Barclay and Datko. If we could pick up Kalid Holmes or Barrett Jones to have an outstanding center we would be in good shape for the future. We should have a good shot at doing this, even though we'll draft late, beacause teams don't usually value centers that highly. This is all assuming Bulaga and Sherrod will come back 100% from their injuries, which the team should have a pretty good idea of, based on rehab. I hope Ted Thompson can trade up and get what he wants likes last year with Heyward, we are more in need of quality not quanity with our window of opportunity at this point.
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Offline play2win  
#22 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2012 11:24:15 AM(UTC)
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I'm going to say the entire issue has more to do with the game-time play calling than anything else. When we run the football, our OL really does look to play better, no matter who we have in there. Same follows suit when we do not run, our OL looks to be playing worse, no matter who we have in there.

I think Ted has done well in drafting Bulaga, and Sherrod to anchor the outside of our line. Lang was a great addition, and Sitton is exceptional. Saturday was a good option for a veteran presence after letting Wells go for more dough. As things turned out, Sherrod has hardly seen the field since his drafting due to the unfortunate compound fracture of his leg. Bulaga was one of our best OL prior to his injury. I do think Newhouse has played very well as a starter, for the most part. Especially if you consider he may be at his peak, going up against superior talent. All the while, the kid is showing improvement, and is staying on the field, contributing to GB's success.

We call out Campen a lot. I don't much care for him, except when they play well, and we pile up yds rushing the football, and Rodgers stays relatively clean... then there is nothing to complain about. So, this makes me think it has more to do with how the offense is called, more than the talent or prep.

Marshall Newhouse is not your top tier talent at LT. Neither is Don Barclay at RT. But, if we keep running, and winning, we won't be calling out Campen, or McCarthy, or Clements or Thompson, at all, for anything but praise, and a job well done. Running the football, like Guiness, is good for you!
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Offline nerdmann  
#23 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2012 2:18:26 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
I'm going to say the entire issue has more to do with the game-time play calling than anything else. When we run the football, our OL really does look to play better, no matter who we have in there. Same follows suit when we do not run, our OL looks to be playing worse, no matter who we have in there.

I think Ted has done well in drafting Bulaga, and Sherrod to anchor the outside of our line. Lang was a great addition, and Sitton is exceptional. Saturday was a good option for a veteran presence after letting Wells go for more dough. As things turned out, Sherrod has hardly seen the field since his drafting due to the unfortunate compound fracture of his leg. Bulaga was one of our best OL prior to his injury. I do think Newhouse has played very well as a starter, for the most part. Especially if you consider he may be at his peak, going up against superior talent. All the while, the kid is showing improvement, and is staying on the field, contributing to GB's success.

We call out Campen a lot. I don't much care for him, except when they play well, and we pile up yds rushing the football, and Rodgers stays relatively clean... then there is nothing to complain about. So, this makes me think it has more to do with how the offense is called, more than the talent or prep.

Marshall Newhouse is not your top tier talent at LT. Neither is Don Barclay at RT. But, if we keep running, and winning, we won't be calling out Campen, or McCarthy, or Clements or Thompson, at all, for anything but praise, and a job well done. Running the football, like Guiness, is good for you!


Agreed. I've shit talked Campen as much as (or more than) anyone.

But Barclay is stepping up and getting it done. I daresay our RBs are actually getting a chance to show what they can do. At least somewhat consistently. It's great to see.

I mean let's get real. Barclay is our #5 T. Newhouse is our #3, and we're still just about ready to clinch the division and vie for #2 seed.

Now I honestly put alot of this on Ted. But you gotta give Campen some due.
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Offline play2win  
#24 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2012 5:46:55 PM(UTC)
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I will say this: I was impressed as Hell at Washington's showing last week v. NYG, especially when focusing on their zone blocking schemes, and their run heavy play options and play calling. I've never felt that our Packers have successfully mastered zone blocking on this level. It would be nice to get our OL performing like an unbeatable machine, but I think that will require additional players, better coaching, and a better, more consistent commitment to calling the run.

Simply calling more run plays will make our OL more effective all around, more proficient. I'm hoping we see a lot of this, and run our way straight to another Lombardi Trophy.

So, I guess to answer the question of the thread: both, with a heavier emphasis on the coaching and play calling. I think Ted has actually added some gems, and that our staff has done a decent job getting everyone ready. Call more runs and the game itself changes. The opponent wears down in rushing your QB, and everybody, on your O and D wins.

But, fail to stick with it, and we get the inverse. I don't want to see that again.
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