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Mattheiw  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, December 12, 2012 11:37:13 PM(UTC)
I would take whichever the D gives you and use the other to keep them off balance.
blueleopard  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, December 12, 2012 11:42:15 PM(UTC)
I don't know how this relates to the Packers.

But didn't you see how Rodgers got sacked 8x in the first half against Seattle?

That's why you establish the run first. Balance. Like you said.
Pack93z  
#3 Posted : Thursday, December 13, 2012 7:04:44 AM(UTC)
I will not buy into putting one first over the other.. pass or run first.

But the key is to have balance in any shape while picking their bones clean upon their weaknesses or where you may have a matchup advantage.

There are teams in which you can get away with being unbalanced.. but there are teams in which you have to maintain balance to counter their strengths. Currently a team like the Giants are a defense in which you have to maintain balance or they are going to eat your passing game alive.

Example.

In the Giants 8 wins.. the opposition had a pass ratio of over 60%.. and the Giants win by an average of over 2 touchdowns.

However int he Giants 5 losses.. they have a point margin of -5.. but the pass ratio of the opposition in those game is ~49.5%.

If you are going to beat that team, your better odds are to remain balanced to keep that pass rush at bay.
PackFanWithTwins  
#4 Posted : Thursday, December 13, 2012 8:28:05 AM(UTC)
Defenses basically have one extra player because they don't have to match up with the QB. And defense typically uses that extra man in pass coverage (fs). They will start the game trying to stop the run with equal numbers, 7 on 7, 8 on 8. The reason they say run first, is because if they can run when the numbers are equal, it forces the defense to bring that extra man up for run support opening up the passing game. single coverage on everybody.

There are exceptions like MN and other running teams where defenses will stack the box to begin until the offense can prove they can beat the single coverage.
Pack93z  
#5 Posted : Thursday, December 13, 2012 8:41:13 AM(UTC)
PackFanWithTwins said: Go to Quoted Post
Defenses basically have one extra player because they don't have to match up with the QB. And defense typically uses that extra man in pass coverage (fs). They will start the game trying to stop the run with equal numbers, 7 on 7, 8 on 8. The reason they say run first, is because if they can run when the numbers are equal, it forces the defense to bring that extra man up for run support opening up the passing game. single coverage on everybody.

There are exceptions like MN and other running teams where defenses will stack the box to begin until the offense can prove they can beat the single coverage.


Agreed in concept and why they state it to be... but I have been a fan of the scripting of the first 15 to prod the defense a bit and to gauge how they are reacting to formations, movement and the plays themselves based on film study and tenancies. Getting a feel for their game plan while planting seeds to be cultivated later.

I think the a more prudent method than trying to force one aspect or another of your offense.

Hence.. not buying into one before the other.. attack the defensive schemes specifically.
PackFanWithTwins  
#6 Posted : Thursday, December 13, 2012 9:08:23 AM(UTC)
Pack93z said: Go to Quoted Post
Agreed in concept and why they state it to be... but I have been a fan of the scripting of the first 15 to prod the defense a bit and to gauge how they are reacting to formations, movement and the plays themselves based on film study and tenancies. Getting a feel for their game plan while planting seeds to be cultivated later.

I think the a more prudent method than trying to force one aspect or another of your offense.

Hence.. not buying into one before the other.. attack the defensive schemes specifically.


I hate the term scripting. Because it makes people think it is we are going to run these plays in this order and that is incorrect. In reality all that is scripted is one play, and after that, it is a selection of plays based on situation, down and distance.

First play, breaks for huge gain and gets down to the 1. 2nd play of script is 5 wide all running 15 yard routes. Going to look really funny.
Pack93z  
#7 Posted : Thursday, December 13, 2012 9:39:56 AM(UTC)
PackFanWithTwins said: Go to Quoted Post
I hate the term scripting. Because it makes people think it is we are going to run these plays in this order and that is incorrect. In reality all that is scripted is one play, and after that, it is a selection of plays based on situation, down and distance.

First play, breaks for huge gain and gets down to the 1. 2nd play of script is 5 wide all running 15 yard routes. Going to look really funny.


Of course it is not completely static.. but they are more inter joined than the remainder of the play calling going forward.

So what else should it be called? An Array of plays? lol.. Scripting is a term that is used and people are going to get the idea.

But the concept is early to force different looks to force the defense to show their hand.
PackFanWithTwins  
#8 Posted : Thursday, December 13, 2012 11:42:41 AM(UTC)
Pack93z said: Go to Quoted Post
Of course it is not completely static.. but they are more inter joined than the remainder of the play calling going forward.

So what else should it be called? An Array of plays? lol.. Scripting is a term that is used and people are going to get the idea.

But the concept is early to force different looks to force the defense to show their hand.


Depends how the "script" is planned.

It can be scripted as run first, to try and get the safety into the box, or it can be scripted pass first to get the safety out of the box. Or it can be scripted balanced. It can be scripted for specific mix of formations to see the defenses response. Or it can be scripted as, if they do this we do that. The script is also sometimes to setup plays later on. Run a bunch of slants early, so the slugo is available later.

The script, is just the beginning of a gameplan. And all it should be called is teh plan.
Pack93z  
#9 Posted : Thursday, December 13, 2012 11:49:08 AM(UTC)
PackFanWithTwins said: Go to Quoted Post

The script, is just the beginning of a gameplan. And all it should be called is teh plan.


Saying the same thing .. just different words. Hence why I used the term scripting, usually the first x amount of plays. Not the entire game plan.

But the "plan" within the overall "game plan".. lol... fine, most refer to it as a script with the understanding that it is not static.

But I know what you are saying.. some take that literally.

Now.. can we start to rename other terms that don't literally mean what they are labeled. ;)
PackFanWithTwins  
#10 Posted : Thursday, December 13, 2012 12:21:00 PM(UTC)
Pack93z said: Go to Quoted Post
Saying the same thing .. just different words. Hence why I used the term scripting, usually the first x amount of plays. Not the entire game plan.

But the "plan" within the overall "game plan".. lol... fine, most refer to it as a script with the understanding that it is not static.

But I know what you are saying.. some take that literally.

Now.. can we start to rename other terms that don't literally mean what they are labeled. ;)


It wouldn't surprise me if some people think a punt is part of the script.
Pack93z  
#11 Posted : Thursday, December 13, 2012 12:23:17 PM(UTC)
PackFanWithTwins said: Go to Quoted Post
It wouldn't surprise me if some people think a punt is part of the script.


LOL.. no matter the term.. some things cannot be avoided.
stevegb  
#12 Posted : Thursday, December 13, 2012 10:48:25 PM(UTC)
It's not really about establishing the run first, its more about establishing the run period. I think its just easier to establish the run earlier rather than later because earlier the clock isn't so much a factor and when your down and your trying to establish the run after lets say, half time the time is a factor and you tend to fall on the pass because not only does it usually make for a bigger yardage gain if there is an incomplete pass it kills the clock.
Cheesey  
#13 Posted : Saturday, December 15, 2012 12:26:10 PM(UTC)
My opinion is this: With the Packers WR's, (and Aaron Rodgers as QB) you know that defenses will key on stopping the pass. If you can mix it up and gain yards on the ground, defenses can't just pin their ears back and go after your passing game.
It opens up the passing game that much more.
Thus, the "need" to be able to gash them with the run.
zombieslayer  
#14 Posted : Saturday, December 15, 2012 6:59:27 PM(UTC)
There is no need to do anything. All that stuff is mental masturbation at best.

You do what you do best and/or exploit what the D can't defend.
Zero2Cool  
#15 Posted : Thursday, August 15, 2013 6:37:00 AM(UTC)
Always pass first. The QB is the most important player and should be used as early an often as possible.
wpr  
#16 Posted : Thursday, August 15, 2013 7:12:48 AM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
Always pass first. The QB is the most important player and should be used as early an often as possible.


under the current NFL rules it is not far from the truth. However if you want to qb to be standing at the end of the game you need a fair amount of runs (not qb scrambles.) as well. The more successful the runs are the better the passing game will be.
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