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Offline DakotaT  
#76 Posted : Tuesday, December 18, 2012 5:52:43 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post


What are meaningful contributions going to do? Keep your shut up money NRA, bring an open mind to the bargaining table.

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Offline musccy  
#77 Posted : Tuesday, December 18, 2012 6:01:34 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post


I saw this reported as well and I'm curious to see what they say on Friday.





Offline Porforis  
#78 Posted : Tuesday, December 18, 2012 6:21:04 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: musccy Go to Quoted Post
I saw this reported as well and I'm curious to see what they say on Friday.


Probably support a few minor gun control provisions for PR's sake, they're not going to suggest too much lest they piss off their financial and political support base.
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Offline musccy  
#79 Posted : Tuesday, December 18, 2012 6:31:23 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Porforis Go to Quoted Post
Probably support a few minor gun control provisions for PR's sake, they're not going to suggest too much lest they piss off their financial and political support base.


I agree, I just can't see them taking a stand anywhere near as strong as their release insinuates. Maybe they mean that they'll pony up and pay for an armed security guard in every school, and the weapons/training to arm every principal?

Offline 4PackGirl  
#80 Posted : Tuesday, December 18, 2012 6:45:18 PM(UTC)
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my daddy always said 'if they wanna get in, they'll always find a way'.

more & more i see his point. i knew he shot thru the windows - our school just put new windows & doors in but i'm not sure what safety measures (if any) were included with those.

there's no quick fix or easy answer. it would be strange to see an armed security guard in a grade school but if it deters or even makes someone think twice about attacking a school, i'm all for it.

i talked with our superintendent today (he still doesn't like me too much after the bullying deal) & gave him kudos for the job they're doing with security. he looked so shaken up when we started talking about what happened. i'm not sure arming a superintendent or principal is the right way to go...a security guard who is willing to shoot someone to maintain safety is who you want.
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Offline Porforis  
#81 Posted : Tuesday, December 18, 2012 6:54:32 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: 4PackGirl Go to Quoted Post
I talked with our superintendent today (he still doesn't like me too much after the bullying deal) & gave him kudos for the job they're doing with security. he looked so shaken up when we started talking about what happened. i'm not sure arming a superintendent or principal is the right way to go...a security guard who is willing to shoot someone to maintain safety is who you want.


The thing I'm concerned about with arming ANYBODY at a school, is how kids will react to having a gun around them (and likely visible) on a daily basis and if the person in question can be trusted to make good decisions with said firearm. At least in the case of a police officer assigned to the school, the uniform tells kids that this is a person there to protect them - Kids generally grow up being given a favorable and noble view of police, a sidearm on a policeman is a lot more comforting and less intimidating to a child than it would be on a security guard or a teacher. I'd also be concerned about training and proper judgement - Kids, especially those with special needs can sometimes get out of control. With as many stories as I've seen about kids getting tazed, if a kid is losing his shit and being violent, I fear what would happen if an undertrained and overworked guard might do with his weapon.
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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#82 Posted : Tuesday, December 18, 2012 7:38:02 PM(UTC)
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The best way to allow and have teachers and staff armed, is with lock boxes in the classroom. Don't want them actively carrying during class. Class room doors always locked from the outside, and if a lockdown happens, that should give teachers time to move students out of the line of fire, and time to unlock and retrieve the weapon.
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Offline Formo  
#83 Posted : Tuesday, December 18, 2012 8:12:58 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Porforis Go to Quoted Post
For a person generally pro-gun that has no desire to live in a household with a gun (primarily due to past suicidal tendancies), there's no way I would feel comfortable in a school where anybody but a resident police officer was armed. And even then I'd feel slightly uncomfortable. I had plenty of amazing teachers, but I had enough teachers with questionable mental faculties and questionable ethics to where I would see the gun as a reason to be afraid of the teacher, not to feel safe.

In a perfect world where teachers can be regularly trained in proper use and maintenance of firearms and are held to standards above and beyond those applied to police officers, maybe. In a world like this where teachers are already overworked and we have trained police officers using their gun and badge as an excuse to abuse their power, no. Asking for way too much trouble and we're going to be creating more incidents than we're going to be avoiding.


Why? You do realize that there are a LOT of people around you everytime you go in public that have their permit to carry and are packing heat. I attend plenty of work/business affairs where there are more guns than iPads and I never once think about them. Seriously.

Point is, don't let irrational fear make your decisions for you.
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Offline wpr  
#84 Posted : Tuesday, December 18, 2012 8:22:37 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Formo Go to Quoted Post
Why? You do realize that there are a LOT of people around you everytime you go in public that have their permit to carry and are packing heat. I attend plenty of work/business affairs where there are more guns than iPads and I never once think about them. Seriously.

Point is, don't let irrational fear make your decisions for you.


Not in Illinois.
"You don't hurt 'em if you don't hit 'em." Chesty Puller



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Offline Porforis  
#85 Posted : Tuesday, December 18, 2012 8:30:26 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Formo Go to Quoted Post
Why? You do realize that there are a LOT of people around you everytime you go in public that have their permit to carry and are packing heat. I attend plenty of work/business affairs where there are more guns than iPads and I never once think about them. Seriously.

Point is, don't let irrational fear make your decisions for you.


What I meant to say is, as a child there's no way I would feel comfortable in a school where anybody but a resident police officer was armed. When I grew up, I got less squeamish. Point is, schools need to be a place where kids feel safe. Ask 20 kids if they'll feel more or less safe if they saw their teachers with guns every day.
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Offline Pack93z  
#86 Posted : Tuesday, December 18, 2012 8:33:06 PM(UTC)
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Is there a good answer.. one in which will satisfy a nation? Nope.. that is an impossible task.

Don't help those that need help, but stop the problem. Don't take away freedoms but protect us from ourselves. It is an impossible task.

Don't dare punish anyone harshly, but expect the crimes to stop. Locking them up and providing for them is working.

Try to ban select weapons, yet stand upon the Amendments of the Constitution of this nation.

Why bother trying to protect the schools, as they will just feel like a prison.

We can play these issues against each other for the end of time.. but how is that going to help ease these type acts of violence.

We spin you right round baby right round.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Porforis on 12/18/2012(UTC)
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#87 Posted : Tuesday, December 18, 2012 9:21:02 PM(UTC)
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What drives me crazy the most when I think about this school shooting is similarities in my kids school. They threw electric card readers on all exterior doors except the main entrance, and act like this is some great form of security. The problem is, the doors are made of glass. Glass that an ordinary run of the mill rock could break.

It wouldn't be hard to make schools safe. Replacing the exterior doors with ones that can actually make it difficult to gain entry. Replace interior doors with ones are always locked from the outside. Doors that can withstand reasonable amounts of force. When class is in session, close those doors and leave them closed. Have peep holes or cameras so the teachers can see who is at the door before they open them.

These shootings are happening more and more often and it is no fault of weapons. It is entirely because of people today and what society has allowed to happen.
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Offline Pack93z  
#88 Posted : Tuesday, December 18, 2012 9:29:38 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
The problem is, the doors are made of glass. Glass that an ordinary run of the mill rock could break.


Laminated glass (impact glass), which is getting more and more common with entry doors, actually takes some work to get through. It will not stop entry, but it will force them to use valuable time up gaining entrance. The .75 interlayer basically bonds the glass together and can withstand considerable force.


I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline athos123  
#89 Posted : Tuesday, December 18, 2012 10:07:43 PM(UTC)
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Offline DakotaT  
#90 Posted : Wednesday, December 19, 2012 9:55:01 PM(UTC)
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Jesus H Christ on a popcicle stick - the GOP wants to break every teacher union in the country because of their perceived gross incompetence and failure in eductating our children; now they want to arm them with guns to protect the kids they can't teach? Hypocrisy knows now boundries with the right wing. How do fuckrs keep voting for those assholes, cuase you're afraid of socialism?
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