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Offline dfosterf  
#91 Posted : Wednesday, December 19, 2012 10:02:05 PM(UTC)
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Why can't we put a cop in every public school? At a minimum, it's one less cop hanging tickets on the taxpayers for traffic violations.

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Offline DakotaT  
#92 Posted : Wednesday, December 19, 2012 10:05:03 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dfosterf Go to Quoted Post
Why can't we put a cop in every public school? At a minimum, it's one less cop hanging tickets on the taxpayers for traffic violations.



BS, we can take them off the interstate and replace with those radarcams. Bunch of doughnut eatin beaurocrats, almost as bad as pensioning military people.

About time you joined the party.
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Offline dfosterf  
#93 Posted : Wednesday, December 19, 2012 10:21:39 PM(UTC)
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I have nothing to add to the conversation. I was taught to respect firearms and my fellow man. Someone forgot to teach those so very simple lessons to all you fucking rednecks, crazies, druggies, drunks and thug/homies. Where was the responsible dad/ grandad/adult figure (male. almost invariably) If the shoe fits, wear it, otherwise, my apology.

... In a perfect world, SO MANY should have their guns taken from them. Perhaps, many of you.

When the pointy end kills, you must be an absolute expert in it's use, care and feeding. (pointy end always in a safe direction, finger off trigger until ready to shoot, unloaded until ready to shoot- 1st 3 of many safety rules to master)
as a responsible human being

One small example- If you don't know the simple difference between a cartridge and a bullet... I'd confiscate all your guns. You don't really give a shit about what you have, and it shows. Go buy several more cases of beer/ weed instead of a gun, moron.

2nd small example- Keep the pointy end away from your fellow human being unless you are at war. (War can mean in self-defense-make sure you know what that is, too, imo)

3rd small example- If you have hit your wife or beaten a pet, or get off on any kind of cruelty, you should absolutely not own a gun, plus... you disgust me.


How do you regulate stupidity or ignorance?

If allowed, I'd start by wringing your neck, but I digress...Every single stupid / crazy / criminal act undermines responsible gun ownership. Personally, when I see it, I call it, to whatever degree required- I say, all must do the same.

Fucking fools, shooting one another, whatever the respective ages... but now the nuts are shooting little kids. Time to start taking away the guns--- fucked yourselves, dysfunctionals!

In other words, as said, I have absolutely no opinion, which is why I can add nothing to the conversation. a/k/a "dust in the wind" when it comes to gun ownership. That's all I got for the moment, Dakota.

Not talking

As far as society in general is concerned- We are FUCKED. The shitty schooling finally caught up with us. Not talking

Edited by user Thursday, December 20, 2012 12:59:59 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline Zero2Cool  
#94 Posted : Thursday, December 20, 2012 6:01:08 AM(UTC)
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I hardly doubt James Madison had assault rifles in mind when inking the 2nd amendment so I really would like ignorant people to quit tossing that around out of context. Firing off ... what rifle they have back then ... a musket? versus something like an AK47? There's a bit of a difference there you knuckleheads!

I've thought quite a bit more about this and I don't think abolishing guns entirely is the answer. Killers will find ways to kill, albeit far less efficiently. I would rather see a strong push against assualt rifles and automatic weapons. I'm not a gun expert so my terminology is probably crap. But guns that fall into the mindset of the context of the 2nd amendment ... no issues there with me. It's the guns where you can fire off 14 shots in 90 seconds or hold a trigger an rake down a forest that I feel need to be more adequately outlawed.


Thing is ... we have gun control currently in nearly every state so is MORE really the answer or do we need to look deeper?

I believe Texas is the only state you can conceal a loaded weapon. Again, I'm ignorant on that so I could be mistaken.

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Offline flep  
#95 Posted : Thursday, December 20, 2012 6:12:37 AM(UTC)
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The answer according to some on here is to have a guard in each school who is armed.

Good Idea??

Until that armed guard bears a grudge against someone and decides to go on a rampage in the school.

And then it will be "Whose idea was it to let someone be inside school premises with a loaded gun?"

"We gotta arm every teacher"!!!!!! Will be the next knee jerk reaction.

It will never end until you remove "The right to bear arms" from the constitution.
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I feel very wrong now!!!!!!!!!
Offline Zero2Cool  
#96 Posted : Thursday, December 20, 2012 6:30:55 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: flep Go to Quoted Post
The answer according to some on here is to have a guard in each school who is armed.

Good Idea??

Until that armed guard bears a grudge against someone and decides to go on a rampage in the school.

And then it will be "Whose idea was it to let someone be inside school premises with a loaded gun?"

"We gotta arm every teacher"!!!!!! Will be the next knee jerk reaction.

It will never end until you remove "The right to bear arms" from the constitution.


I think protecting schools would be rather simplistic.

Most if not all schools have a double set of doors. The inner set should be freaking titanium or something, lol. You get the point.

Any visitor coming through gets the 'wand' checking for metal. It goes off, they don't go in.





So, outer set of doors, unlocked.
Visitor enters outer doors, buzzes for school employee.
Employee wands visitor.
if visitor fails wand check, no entry.
if visitor passes wand check, office employee unlocks inner doors allowing both employee and visitor through.

That school employee must be willing to sacrifice their life those the kids.



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Offline flep  
#97 Posted : Thursday, December 20, 2012 6:36:31 AM(UTC)
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Here are the latest available murder stats comparing the UK with the USA.

We do not have the same gun laws as the USA.

We do not have gun shops in any high street.

A firearms licence is needed but you are not allowed to have a firearm in the home unless it is for use as a farmer(shotgun)or for sporting purposes )Clay pidgeon shooting, grouse/pheasant shooting etc).

I have never held a real-life gun in my life-time and I don't intend to do so.

The figures speak for themselves really.


http://www.juancole.com/...-britain-8775-in-us.html

The annual rate of murders committed in the UK by firearm is 0.03% per 100,000 people in the states it is 2.98%. Simple fact if the population is armed more people get shot and killed.
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Online musccy  
#98 Posted : Thursday, December 20, 2012 6:48:24 AM(UTC)
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Flep- I'm undecided though leaning left on the sudden wave of gun control discussions. With that said, eliminating guns does not solve the issue. Oklahoma city involved no guns. Co theatre shooter damn near blew up the neighborhood with a booby-trapped apt. Lynchburg VA had a pipe bomb brought to a middle school in November, the NE Oklahoma HS threat thwarted Friday involved explosives at the front door for when cops arrived.

Zero- Barracading the front door is great, but then someone can access a window or side door. Fortify those then, right? What happens when there's a fire in the school and a main entrance is blocked and you cant escape through the windows because of the steel bars in front of them?

I don't mean to be so cynical, and to some extent I actually agree w/ what both of you are saying, but it shows there are myriad layers to this issue.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#99 Posted : Thursday, December 20, 2012 7:09:40 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: musccy Go to Quoted Post
Zero- Barracading the front door is great, but then someone can access a window or side door. Fortify those then, right? What happens when there's a fire in the school and a main entrance is blocked and you cant escape through the windows because of the steel bars in front of them?

I don't mean to be so cynical, and to some extent I actually agree w/ what both of you are saying, but it shows there are myriad layers to this issue.


The fire exits would remain the same. The doors unlock from the inside during fire alarm. I wouldn't recommend them being unlockable from the inside because a kid could mistakenly let someone in.

I think most windows in schools are pretty difficult to get through as it is currently.

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Offline Wade  
#100 Posted : Thursday, December 20, 2012 7:18:46 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dfosterf Go to Quoted Post

As far as society in general is concerned- We are FUCKED. The shitty schooling finally caught up with us. Not talking


^^This^^

It's why, when gun control/rights discussions come up, I tend to put my opinion forth once, twice at most, wait to get called a few names, and then remain silent thereafter. Three generations of effed-up education-encouraged ignorance and wrongheadness about history and what constitutes relevant "change" mean the likelihood of informed understanding is slim and none.

On one board I frequent, not this one, I got called "condescending" and "arrogant" in the attitude I put forth in my one or two posts there since I was obviously claiming to know more than everyone else. After which another 10 pages of posts (with no end in sight) completely missing the point I was making, have proven that, in fact, I did know more about what I was talking about.

And, no, I don't own a gun. Nor will I ever likely buy one again.

I do know *my* limitations and what they will likely cost me in the end.

I will only say this, and let the rest of you say whatever you want ... in my opinion, the fact that people are actually contemplating with all seriousness the idea of a permanent armed police presence in schools is nothing more than proof a fortiori that compulsory education is an idea whose time has come and gone.

Yeah, I know, crazy.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#101 Posted : Thursday, December 20, 2012 7:20:12 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Wade Go to Quoted Post
I will only say this, and let the rest of you say whatever you want ... in my opinion, the fact that people are actually contemplating with all seriousness the idea of a permanent armed police presence in schools is nothing more than evidence that compulsory education is an idea whose time has come and gone.


Hey, it's concept made everyone happier at airports, why not at schools too?

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Porforis on 12/20/2012(UTC)
Offline Porforis  
#102 Posted : Thursday, December 20, 2012 9:03:35 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
I hardly doubt James Madison had assault rifles in mind when inking the 2nd amendment so I really would like ignorant people to quit tossing that around out of context. Firing off ... what rifle they have back then ... a musket? versus something like an AK47? There's a bit of a difference there you knuckleheads!


And when inking the first amendment, I highly doubt he could have envisioned that a single idiot could spread disinformation or stupidity in a matter of minutes to millions of people or that the press could instantly release information around the globe. But, you don't see people suggesting that we ban the internet. Hell, the internet's used by terrorists and plenty of people have died as a result of the internet, including young children that have killed themselves after cyberbullying and child predators that locate their victims online. You could counter with "Well, bullying existed before the internet as did suicide and terrorists managed to kill perfectly fine without the internet". The exact same arguments can be made and are made when it comes to guns.

While the whole "Well, the founding fathers would have wanted..." argument is shaky at best unless you're a constitutional scholar, so is the "Well, they couldn't have envisioned..." counterargument.
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Offline Pack93z  
#103 Posted : Thursday, December 20, 2012 9:33:02 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Porforis Go to Quoted Post
And when inking the first amendment, I highly doubt he could have envisioned that a single idiot could spread disinformation or stupidity in a matter of minutes to millions of people or that the press could instantly release information around the globe.


Actually they more than likely did envision changes.. hence the open nature of the Constitution and the Amendments.

Events of their days shed light that the world would continue to evolve. From Ben Franklin's inventions, to the Boston Tea Party and Paul Revere's ride. Would they have envisioned what we have today.. maybe, maybe not. But they certainly knew we would evolve, and they also knew we would have times of struggle and change. Paramount throughout their thoughts were to remain free.

Now, banning assault weapons.. is that really reducing our freedoms? If so, then start revoking almost every law on the books as it is an infringement of our freedoms.

Why not just tear it all down and rebuild from the Constitutions and Amendments up. Think


BTW... 1927, Bath Township, MI.. Andrew Kehoe. Killed 44 people, 38 children using explosives. If a person snaps and wants to kill.. they will.

We can talk about the guns all we want, but until we fix the people behind the guns, are we truly solving the problem?

Mental health, education, and people unafraid to intervene are going to help a ton more than removing guns from hands. I think the third point there is the key, I would bet most of us know someone that just isn't quite right. Their clocks just spin differently than the normal ranges of society. They are walking that line of crazy, but we try to pacify them to avoid setting them off. Yet we refuse to say anything or get involved. Even the law enforcement, courts and doctors try and stay out of the fray. Dare not profile though..

Yes we need to do something, the frequency of these spree killings are increasing.. but I fail to believe that just closing the loop on guns is the only action that would get results in reducing this type of crime. It goes much deeper than that in this society. This world.

I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline DakotaT  
#104 Posted : Thursday, December 20, 2012 9:56:18 AM(UTC)
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I keep hearing the argument that people are going to kill regardless of the weapon chosen, so why do we insist on removing the assault rifle? The answer is because it has no other purpose but to kill multiple people in a short period of time. This weapon has no other purpose in our world, and should be removed from civilians out of everyone's cold dead hands if necessary.

It doesn't fix the mental aspect of the people that kill, but it does go a long way in safeguarding us from ourselves.
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Offline Pack93z  
#105 Posted : Thursday, December 20, 2012 10:01:26 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
I keep hearing the argument that people are going to kill regardless of the weapon chosen, so why do we insist on removing the assault rifle? The answer is because it has no other purpose but to kill multiple people in a short period of time. This weapon has no other purpose in our world, and should be removed from civilians out of everyone's cold dead hands if necessary.


I agree.. there are certain weapons that should be removed.. no disagreement here. However were do we stop? A lever action is faster than a bolt for example. Some modifications to a semi automatic and you have a dangerous weapon. Gunpowder is easily accessible, especially if you reload. I have no interest in allowing all favors of weapons out there for legal purchase, but I also wish them to stay true to the foundation of this country.

My point is simply, it is not just the weapon that needs to be addressed, actually that is the lesser of the direct needs. My opinion.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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