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Offline dfosterf  
#1 Posted : Monday, December 31, 2012 11:01:40 AM(UTC)
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I like the 3-4, and am thankful to him for transitioning us to it.

Now I want his ass fired, if there is a better option out there.

The motherfucker has ran that God-damned prevent in the teeth of its continued failure forever.

Our defense IS NOT any good. We got play makers all over the place, yet we give away games that we should have won, due to poor technique, bad defensive play-calls, etc.

Fire his fucking ass, imo

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damn skippy I'm an owner. I currently own a full .00001924537805515393 % of the Green Bay Packers.



Offline gbguy20  
#2 Posted : Monday, December 31, 2012 11:02:36 AM(UTC)
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Offline DarkaneRules  
#3 Posted : Monday, December 31, 2012 11:07:16 AM(UTC)
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This defense is young as crap. Yesterday he called some great plays. I put this more on the assistant coaches. And Haywood, you know, he just isn't "prime time" yet whatever that means. He is a rookie and will make some mistakes. Cost us dearly this time around unfortunately.
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Offline Pack93z  
#4 Posted : Monday, December 31, 2012 11:58:00 AM(UTC)
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Personally, I think Capers and company called a pretty good game yesterday, they definitely were not passive most plays. The killer play was the 8 in coverage playing a modified cover two... but almost every play the Packers had shots to stop Peterson, they just failed to execute.

If anything, they were crashing too hard inside and left the edges soft.. most of the big yardage came on Peterson bouncing it outside and us pinned in.. leaving corners to try and make plays, which in Tramon's case on one play for sure, was sad. Chickenshit even.

I get miffed at some of Capers soft pass rush packages.. but he really didn't shift into that much yesterday. But he brought the safeties up quite often on the blitzes yesterday, most in directional run blitzes from the backers behind it.. and we simply failed too often to put Peterson on the turf.

Product of the league.. afraid to hit coupled with poor tackling principles.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline dfosterf  
#5 Posted : Monday, December 31, 2012 12:38:03 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
Personally, I think Capers and company called a pretty good game yesterday, they definitely were not passive most plays. The killer play was the 8 in coverage playing a modified cover two... but almost every play the Packers had shots to stop Peterson, they just failed to execute.

If anything, they were crashing too hard inside and left the edges soft.. most of the big yardage came on Peterson bouncing it outside and us pinned in.. leaving corners to try and make plays, which in Tramon's case on one play for sure, was sad. Chickenshit even.

I get miffed at some of Capers soft pass rush packages.. but he really didn't shift into that much yesterday. But he brought the safeties up quite often on the blitzes yesterday, most in directional run blitzes from the backers behind it.. and we simply failed too often to put Peterson on the turf.

Product of the league.. afraid to hit coupled with poor tackling principles.


The man made Christian Ponder look all-world. Who's in charge out there? AD had over 400 yards in two games. We have constant tackling issues.

We will go nowhere in the playoffs if his defense continues to play like this. It is just such a tragic waste when I watch Aaron Rodgers play this game as he does. I take the whole picture in, and I still believe he is UNDERRATED, due to the failings of our line, our running game (moderately optimistic on that one) and Dom and his (imo) failings (imo) in scheme at critical junctures.

When things are compressed with our asses over our goal-line, we actually look pretty good in a tough situation. I mean that comparatively to other "D's" as I know it's easier to defend when the field is shrunk (qualifying my statement) .

It may just be we have a lot of stupid motherfuckers, which I believe to be true, but that also must be taken into context as it seems many teams employ stupid motherfuckers.

So - imo - Dom should be fired for actually thinking at critical junctures that he is not employing stupid motherfuckers on that given play. If they would just announce that as the reason for possibly putting his job in question, I'd be good with that! Flapper



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Offline Rios39  
#6 Posted : Monday, December 31, 2012 1:29:34 PM(UTC)
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He called the right plays and the packers played like pussies. He can't make the tackles I'm sure they teach tackling but tramon looked like a scared little sissy.
blank
Offline all_about_da_packers  
#7 Posted : Monday, December 31, 2012 2:44:49 PM(UTC)
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Look at the "Prevent" cover 2 called by Capers. You'll find it in the highlights section of NFL Videos. Seriously, go watch it.

EVERY Vikings' receiver that releases across the first-down marker has 2 defenders around him - 1 behind and 1 (at least slightly) in front. Everyone, of course, except the player that Casey Hayward forgot to cover.

FIRE CAPERS' ASS FOR PLAYING ROOKIES!!!!111!!

Seriously Foster, surely you know we've been getting by with as many as 6 Defensive rookies on the field. You had to believe a lapse in coverage was going to occur at some point. It did, at the most inopportune time yesterday.

What is inexcusable is not even the lack of tackling, but generally the effort by everyone outside of Raji/Pickett. Look at the last Peterson run. He bounces it between his G and T (Mike Daniels was blocked on that play). Runs it all the way up, and which player makes that tackle? Of course, Mike Daniels. The same DE that was blocked - HE was the player to chase down Peterson and tackle him. Not any of our LBs, or DBs.

That is damning of the effort our players (minus 2 or 3) gave. Capers needs to be responsible for the coaching, but he surely cannot be held entirely held responsible for the lack of effort / technique our guys played with.
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Offline doddpower  
#8 Posted : Monday, December 31, 2012 2:55:37 PM(UTC)
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Yeah, on the big third down prevent play, it was a perfect call. Hayward simply blew the coverage, which was surprising. It's easy to forget he's a rookie. Had he played the coverage correctly, I don't see the Vikings converting that third down. Who knows, considering it's Ponder, it could have even been an interception as he might have tried to squeeze it into coverage.
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#9 Posted : Monday, December 31, 2012 3:06:31 PM(UTC)
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I think Hayward is getting a little to much undeserved criticism for that one play. It was 3rd and 11. He is the under coverage at the edge. How deep does everybody expect him to go? You know damn well, they were telling everybody, where the first down was and to protect that distance. He was at the depth needed for the 1st down in his zone. If he turns and runs deeper with the WR all they have to do is come back route on the sideline because there would have been nobody to stop that.

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Offline dfosterf  
#10 Posted : Monday, December 31, 2012 3:28:38 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: all_about_da_packers Go to Quoted Post
Look at the "Prevent" cover 2 called by Capers. You'll find it in the highlights section of NFL Videos. Seriously, go watch it.

EVERY Vikings' receiver that releases across the first-down marker has 2 defenders around him - 1 behind and 1 (at least slightly) in front. Everyone, of course, except the player that Casey Hayward forgot to cover.

FIRE CAPERS' ASS FOR PLAYING ROOKIES!!!!111!!

Seriously Foster, surely you know we've been getting by with as many as 6 Defensive rookies on the field. You had to believe a lapse in coverage was going to occur at some point. It did, at the most inopportune time yesterday.

What is inexcusable is not even the lack of tackling, but generally the effort by everyone outside of Raji/Pickett. Look at the last Peterson run. He bounces it between his G and T (Mike Daniels was blocked on that play). Runs it all the way up, and which player makes that tackle? Of course, Mike Daniels. The same DE that was blocked - HE was the player to chase down Peterson and tackle him. Not any of our LBs, or DBs.

That is damning of the effort our players (minus 2 or 3) gave. Capers needs to be responsible for the coaching, but he surely cannot be held entirely held responsible for the lack of effort / technique our guys played with.


These are all good points, I admit. Could we just hit him (Dom) in the side with a bat or something? Nothing permanent, mind you. Laugh
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Offline Wade  
#11 Posted : Monday, December 31, 2012 4:27:57 PM(UTC)
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Too bad they can't fine/reduce salary of a player by 10,000 per missed tackle.

Say what you want about the dear departed Be*r coach, but his players consistently tackle well.

Or perhaps we could whoever the LB/DB coaches are for the 49ers as a DC.
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Offline Gaycandybacon  
#12 Posted : Monday, December 31, 2012 4:53:48 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: all_about_da_packers Go to Quoted Post
Look at the "Prevent" cover 2 called by Capers. You'll find it in the highlights section of NFL Videos. Seriously, go watch it.

EVERY Vikings' receiver that releases across the first-down marker has 2 defenders around him - 1 behind and 1 (at least slightly) in front. Everyone, of course, except the player that Casey Hayward forgot to cover.


Sometimes that's all it takes. You can give credit to ponder for finding that broken coverage. It was acutally a great play call by capers. If Hayward knows to play out of the slot on that play and continues up the field this could of been a different game.


Quote:
FIRE CAPERS' ASS FOR PLAYING ROOKIES!!!!111!!


Um.... Does and has he had no choice? Seriously look at our roster and the injuries that has transpired over the year. Pretty much a given. Yes sometimes like oldness, young players can hurt your team. But blaming the defensive coordinator for playing with what he has is not a good excuse to fire his ass.

Message modified by user Monday, December 31, 2012 5:05:02 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline dfosterf  
#13 Posted : Monday, December 31, 2012 5:26:11 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Gaycandybacon Go to Quoted Post
Sometimes that's all it takes. You can give credit to ponder for finding that broken coverage. It was acutally a great play call by capers. If Hayward knows to play out of the slot on that play and continues up the field this could of been a different game.




Um.... Does and has he had no choice? Seriously look at our roster and the injuries that has transpired over the year. Pretty much a given. Yes sometimes like oldness, young players can hurt your team. But blaming the defensive coordinator for playing with what he has is not a good excuse to fire his ass.


He was being sarcastic against me, Gaycandybacon.
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damn skippy I'm an owner. I currently own a full .00001924537805515393 % of the Green Bay Packers.



Offline Gaycandybacon  
#14 Posted : Monday, December 31, 2012 5:28:18 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dfosterf Go to Quoted Post
He was being sarcastic against me, Gaycandybacon.


Had a feeling.
Offline zombieslayer  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, January 1, 2013 11:44:16 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dfosterf Go to Quoted Post
The man made Christian Ponder look all-world. Who's in charge out there? AD had over 400 yards in two games. We have constant tackling issues.

We will go nowhere in the playoffs if his defense continues to play like this. It is just such a tragic waste when I watch Aaron Rodgers play this game as he does. I take the whole picture in, and I still believe he is UNDERRATED, due to the failings of our line, our running game (moderately optimistic on that one) and Dom and his (imo) failings (imo) in scheme at critical junctures.

When things are compressed with our asses over our goal-line, we actually look pretty good in a tough situation. I mean that comparatively to other "D's" as I know it's easier to defend when the field is shrunk (qualifying my statement) .

It may just be we have a lot of stupid motherfuckers, which I believe to be true, but that also must be taken into context as it seems many teams employ stupid motherfuckers.

So - imo - Dom should be fired for actually thinking at critical junctures that he is not employing stupid motherfuckers on that given play. If they would just announce that as the reason for possibly putting his job in question, I'd be good with that! Flapper





AD is the best player in the NFL. 400 yards in 2 games is to be expected.

Now, getting lit up by Ponder? That's something to fire a man for.

I think the NFL has Dom figured out. He's been outsmarted too many times. I'd rather take my chances with a more aggressive DC.

Foster is right. We got talent back there. It's the coaching.

Dom has the Playoffs to prove me wrong. I hope he does. If Foster and I turn out to be right, I want him gone.
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Offline nerdmann  
#16 Posted : Tuesday, January 1, 2013 1:01:30 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: zombieslayer Go to Quoted Post
AD is the best player in the NFL. 400 yards in 2 games is to be expected.

Now, getting lit up by Ponder? That's something to fire a man for.

I think the NFL has Dom figured out. He's been outsmarted too many times. I'd rather take my chances with a more aggressive DC.

Foster is right. We got talent back there. It's the coaching.

Dom has the Playoffs to prove me wrong. I hope he does. If Foster and I turn out to be right, I want him gone.


Promote Darren Perry?

I'm skeptical of Dom too. But keep in mind. He's not playing with starters out there. How much do you think we could have used a run stuffing OLB like Nick Perry yesterday? Dez Bishop has a history of stuffing Apete, causing fumbles too.

When it comes to having to succeed using smoke and mirrors, I'll take Dom Capers over many.
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Offline all_about_da_packers  
#17 Posted : Tuesday, January 1, 2013 1:47:06 PM(UTC)
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After having had a chance to watch film from this game, I'll say this: Dom Capers unquestionably had the right approach. That is to say, I do not know how someone could rationally critique the game plan he had.

Let's start with this first: if you do not know by now that Dom's strategy is to take away the run first - making the other team 1 dimensional - and then unleash his arsenal of blitzes, then you are missing the obvious. It's his modus opperandi. When you have a team with an all-world RB and a below-average QB, then that strategy seems to be a sound one to use; make the QB beat you after shutting down the run.

Capers schemed it exactly that way. I do not recall seeing at any other game this year the sheer disregard for maintaining gaps - when someone had Peterson stopped, the closest players left their gaps and assignments to come to him. It happened on more than a handful of occasions to be mere coincidence - the players were taught to do that at least this game. Now look at AD's runs. Most of them are him bouncing it to the outside and getting into the second level. Watch the highlight videos of his longest runs - they do not come straight up the middle. Firstly, credit the D-line for playing very well and causing Peterson to often bounce it to the outside. Note, secondly, that most of the players in the 2nd level (LBs/DBs) are either blocked or simply unable to capitalize on angles they have due to poor technique. What does this do? It forces everyone to be alert and focus on tackling the RB. Go back and check out how many times the CBs were playing off-man or simply giving 3-5 yards cushion to the WRs - they are essentially no names who no decent CB should be respecting. Of course, I presume our CBs were respecting All Day, not the WRs (Easier to shed blocks / take an angle to a runner when the WR reveals his intentions to block - and the WRs / TEs of the Vikings blocked pretty damn well last game). The fact that our CBs would often make it a point to look into the backfield after the ball snapped - hence, away from their responsibility - lends credence to my presumption.

Which bring me to my point: Our coverages fell apart not because of scheme, but because of our sheer inability to execute. More specifically, our DBs became an even greater liability precisely because they could not bring down Peterson. Instead of focusing in on their man, they started peeking into the backfield. That moment's hesitation often proved advantageous for the Vikings WRs. In fact, I'm willing to bet that the threat of Peterson is the precise reason that Hayward did not follow through on his zone coverage assignment. To the point: failed execution simply became our undoing. No amount of scheming, I think, can overcome terrible fundamentals / poor effort.

The fact that we could not stop Peterson really hurt our passing game because everyone had to account for the possibility that they had to alter what their responsibility was to try and make the tackle. This is what allowed Ponder to be so good - he was an afterthought, especially to our DBs.

What I'm trying to say is that I do not think Capers can be blamed for the poor defence. He had a sensible scheme in place. I don't even blame Capers for the failed execution / effort of our LBs and DBs. That's what position coaches are for - to teach their players fundamentals and demand performance. So, I'm not sure why anyone would reasonably have their faith shaken in Capers by this performance. His game planning was not wrong. Hell, the D-line did what he probably wanted - forcing Peterson outside and buying our guys in the 2nd level a bit more time to approach and tackle Peterson. Unfortunately, no other position group on D bothered to show up.

I really hope that the OLB, ILB, CB, and S position coaches all called out their starters because this was just an atrocious performance by those groups. If they are even half-way decent this week and win 1-on-1 battles, we should be in a good position to win the game.
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thanks Post received 3 applause.
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Offline Gaycandybacon  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, January 1, 2013 2:26:00 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: all_about_da_packers Go to Quoted Post
After having had a chance to watch film from this game, I'll say this: Dom Capers unquestionably had the right approach. That is to say, I do not know how someone could rationally critique the game plan he had.

Let's start with this first: if you do not know by now that Dom's strategy is to take away the run first - making the other team 1 dimensional - and then unleash his arsenal of blitzes, then you are missing the obvious. It's his modus opperandi. When you have a team with an all-world RB and a below-average QB, then that strategy seems to be a sound one to use; make the QB beat you after shutting down the run.

Capers schemed it exactly that way. I do not recall seeing at any other game this year the sheer disregard for maintaining gaps - when someone had Peterson stopped, the closest players left their gaps and assignments to come to him. It happened on more than a handful of occasions to be mere coincidence - the players were taught to do that at least this game. Now look at AD's runs. Most of them are him bouncing it to the outside and getting into the second level. Watch the highlight videos of his longest runs - they do not come straight up the middle. Firstly, credit the D-line for playing very well and causing Peterson to often bounce it to the outside. Note, secondly, that most of the players in the 2nd level (LBs/DBs) are either blocked or simply unable to capitalize on angles they have due to poor technique. What does this do? It forces everyone to be alert and focus on tackling the RB. Go back and check out how many times the CBs were playing off-man or simply giving 3-5 yards cushion to the WRs - they are essentially no names who no decent CB should be respecting. Of course, I presume our CBs were respecting All Day, not the WRs (Easier to shed blocks / take an angle to a runner when the WR reveals his intentions to block - and the WRs / TEs of the Vikings blocked pretty damn well last game). The fact that our CBs would often make it a point to look into the backfield after the ball snapped - hence, away from their responsibility - lends credence to my presumption.

Which bring me to my point: Our coverages fell apart not because of scheme, but because of our sheer inability to execute. More specifically, our DBs became an even greater liability precisely because they could not bring down Peterson. Instead of focusing in on their man, they started peeking into the backfield. That moment's hesitation often proved advantageous for the Vikings WRs. In fact, I'm willing to bet that the threat of Peterson is the precise reason that Hayward did not follow through on his zone coverage assignment. To the point: failed execution simply became our undoing. No amount of scheming, I think, can overcome terrible fundamentals / poor effort.

The fact that we could not stop Peterson really hurt our passing game because everyone had to account for the possibility that they had to alter what their responsibility was to try and make the tackle. This is what allowed Ponder to be so good - he was an afterthought, especially to our DBs.

What I'm trying to say is that I do not think Capers can be blamed for the poor defence. He had a sensible scheme in place. I don't even blame Capers for the failed execution / effort of our LBs and DBs. That's what position coaches are for - to teach their players fundamentals and demand performance. So, I'm not sure why anyone would reasonably have their faith shaken in Capers by this performance. His game planning was not wrong. Hell, the D-line did what he probably wanted - forcing Peterson outside and buying our guys in the 2nd level a bit more time to approach and tackle Peterson. Unfortunately, no other position group on D bothered to show up.

I really hope that the OLB, ILB, CB, and S position coaches all called out their starters because this was just an atrocious performance by those groups. If they are even half-way decent this week and win 1-on-1 battles, we should be in a good position to win the game.


1 Million % agreed... I thought apart of the game we had Peterson. Our defense especially d-line was getting to the backfield. But our secondary and all the things you pointed out, pretty much shows how much we miss Woodson and his communication skills, his toughness, and his leadership. Can't wait to have him on the field and McMillian/Jennings off.
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