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Offline steveishere  
#46 Posted : Wednesday, January 2, 2013 6:41:22 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
Solid arguments, to be sure.

Nerdmann says it's true, but it makes me pee my pants. Therefore it must not be true.


Well at least some of them have backed up their arguments. So far basically all you've done is said "This is what I think happens therefore it's true"
thanks Post received 1 applause.
wpr on 1/2/2013(UTC)
Offline Yerko  
#47 Posted : Wednesday, January 2, 2013 11:33:00 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
If the person downfield was in fact, already open, then there would be no need to wait the extra 7 seconds to get the ball out, no?

And this is not Aaron's obsession alone. But Aaron and Mike are obsessed with obliterating Favre from the record books. THAT is why they abandon the run. THAT is why they throw deep constantly.

They know that Aaron is unlikely to play as long as Favre, so they need to break his records in a shorter amount of time.



Yes, that is Aaron Rodgers and Mike McCarthy's main objective every season...to wipe Burt from the Packers record books. Thank you for the laugh on this lovely afternoon! Applause
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Offline nerdmann  
#48 Posted : Wednesday, January 2, 2013 12:00:41 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
Well at least some of them have backed up their arguments. So far basically all you've done is said "This is what I think happens therefore it's true"


Let's take the emotion out of it, shall we? Let's examine these arguments without the usual homer obsessions and accusations and personal attacks.

Quote:
lol, you are amazing. Not even worth a rebuttal, as it's basically like stealing candy from a baby. It's amazing how knowledgeable you are of the inner minds of Aaron Rodgers and Mike McCarthy, though. Typical troll talk.


Nerdmann cannot know what is in the minds of Mike McCarthy and AR. Therefore it is impossible for Aaron Rodgers to pass up open receivers short and wait for something to open up deep.

Nerdmann is a troll, therefore it is impossible for Aaron Rodgers to be a stat whore.

Quote:
Who are you Bus Cook? This is one of the most moronic statements I have ever read. I can not imagine the TWO of them are sitting down and agreeing to, not do what it takes to win the game, but break Favre records. Other than Favre and his momma who really gives a shit about the records?

Just to show you how ridiculous your comment is here are the run/pass totals for the month of December. (I just don't want to waste time looking further. And that is about the time the overall run game got healthy enough to be utilized more.)

Dec 2 vs MN 36 runs/35 pass. wait forgot two sacks so 37 passes.
Dec 9 vs Det 25/24 plus 3 sacks total 27 passes.
Dec 16 @ Chi 23/21 plus 4 sacks total 25 passes.
Dec 23 Vs TN 35/40 1 sack total 41 passes.
Dec 30 @ MN 16/40 plus 5 sacks 45 passes.

The first 4 games show nothing, NOTHING that would indicate some evil plot to get the sacred Favre records. The run vs pass break down is nearly 50-50. The main reason final game in MN was so lopsided in pass over runs was that they got down 13-0 and 20-7 and HAD to try and catch up. Keep in mind the MN secondary was weak and should have been exploited.


Only Favre and his momma care about Favre's records. Therefore Aaron Rodgers cannot possibly care about them.

In the month of Dec, 2012, the run pass ratio is 50/50, therefore it is impossible for Aaron Rodgers to pass up open receivers short to wait for something to open up long.

In this last game, the Packers had to come from behind, therefore it is impossible for Aaron Rodgers to pass up open receivers underneath and wait for someone to come open deep.

Quote:
Then why does Mike McCarthy want to run the ball even when we weren't effective?

Aaron said countless times that the super bowl is better than the MVP. All he wants to do is win..

LOL and the funny thing is remember that Lions game at halftime Mike McCarthy said to his team? "throw the stats out the window" Pretty much proves that he doesn't give 2 shits about records and or stats.


MM wants to run the ball even when it's not effective. Therefore it is impossible for Rodgers to hold the ball even though there are guys open underneath.

Aaron says that the Superbowl is better than MVP. Therefore it is impossible for him to ignore guys who come open underneath.

MM told his team to "throw stats out the window" at halftime of the Lions game. Therefore he cannot possibly care about statistics.

Quote:
noooo. You saying Mike's abandoning the run is his pursuit of Favre's records is wrong. AND this started with you complaining about Aaron Rodgers not Mike. You are waffling all over the place on this thread. It is like watching a dingy in the North Atlantic.

Pick one thing to bitch about and stay with it man.

AND one game in the last 5 where they pass a lot does not prove your hypothesis of them going for said records.


Although Nerd can't know what is in the minds of Mike or Aaron, this person knows for certain that Mike abandoning the run has nothing to do with Favre's records.

Nerd is complaining about Aaron, not Mike. Therefore he is waffling like a dingy. All dingies are wrong, therefore Nerd is wrong.

There was only one game in the last five in which the team passed alot, therefore it is neither possible that Mike has a tendency to abandon the run, not is it possible for Aaron to pass up guys who come open underneath.

Quote:
oh. ok. go get the stats that prove Aaron Rodgers is going for Favre stats and not trying to win.

This just in- my wife announced the only record Aaron is trying to break is the most Super Bowl wins by a QB. Damn I knew there was a reason I married her besides her great body.


Nerd doesn't post statistics proving that Aaron is going for Favre's stats. Therefore it must not be true.

Quote:
Is there any player in the league that doesn't want to win?


All NFL players value the team over their individual glorification or personal agendas. Aaron Rodgers is an NFL player. Therefore it is impossible for him to put himself before the team.

Quote:
Don't argue with nerdman!!!!!
He WILL send the black helicopters to your house!!!!

Everything is a conspiracy in his world!!!

"stat-whore" a phrase that will now live forever on this forum.

Nerdman says it. it's the truth, and he will continue to say it until he thinks he has convinced everyone else it's the truth.


Nerdmann is a conspiracy theorist. Therefore if he says the sky is blue, it must be some other color.

Did I leave any out? I only went back to the previous page.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline wpr  
#49 Posted : Wednesday, January 2, 2013 12:26:53 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
Let's take the emotion out of it, shall we? Let's examine these arguments without the usual homer obsessions and accusations and personal attacks.



Nerdmann cannot know what is in the minds of Mike McCarthy and AR.

true

Quote:

Nerdmann is a troll,

true

Quote:

Only Favre and his momma care about Favre's records.

true

Quote:
In the month of Dec, 2012, the run pass ratio is 50/50,

true

Quote:

In this last game, the Packers had to come from behind,

true

Quote:
Mike McCarthy wants to run the ball even when it's not effective.

true

Quote:
Aaron says that the Superbowl is better than MVP.

true

Quote:
Mike McCarthy told his team to "throw stats out the window" at halftime of the Lions game.

true


Quote:
Although Nerd can't know what is in the minds of Mike or Aaron, this person knows for certain that Mike abandoning the run has nothing to do with Favre's records.

true

Quote:
Nerd is complaining about Aaron, not Mike. Therefore he is waffling like a dingy. therefore Nerd is wrong.

TRUE

Quote:
There was only one game in the last five in which the team passed alot,

TRUE

Quote:
Nerd doesn't post statistics proving that Aaron is going for Favre's stats. Therefore it must not be true.

TRUE


Quote:
NFL players value the team over their individual glorification or personal agendas.

true

Quote:
Nerdmann is a conspiracy theorist.

TRUE GLAD WE AGREE ON THIS.


well done young man.

"You don't hurt 'em if you don't hit 'em." Chesty Puller



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thanks Post received 1 applause.
steveishere on 1/2/2013(UTC)
Offline doddpower  
#50 Posted : Wednesday, January 2, 2013 1:06:37 PM(UTC)
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Nerdmanns post aren't even worth reading, imo. I'll skip over his like I have so many others in the past.
Offline nerdmann  
#51 Posted : Saturday, January 5, 2013 7:42:44 PM(UTC)
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Anyone see Dungy and Harrison break it down at the half?

"This is what makes Aaron Rodgers the playmaker he is. He has Finley open underneath, but he doesn't want that 5 yards. He wants Nelson deep on a triple move."
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline TheKanataThrilla  
#52 Posted : Saturday, January 5, 2013 7:51:50 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
Anyone see Dungy and Harrison break it down at the half?

"This is what makes Aaron Rodgers the playmaker he is. He has Finley open underneath, but he doesn't want that 5 yards. He wants Nelson deep on a triple move."


He is taking the dump passes to Harris. This is just a sweet added weapon. It is like what we were doing with Green, but this guy seems to pound the Defence a little more when he runs. Slow drives work for me. It scares me the big play shit that we do all the time. It reminds me of old Buffalo Bills football where they won a lot, but they played so fast their defence didn't get much time to rest.

"Stumbling from one disaster to another" Lost Together (Blue Rodeo)
Offline Pack93z  
#53 Posted : Saturday, January 5, 2013 8:34:15 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
Anyone see Dungy and Harrison break it down at the half?

"This is what makes Aaron Rodgers the playmaker he is. He has Finley open underneath, but he doesn't want that 5 yards. He wants Nelson deep on a triple move."


Agreed... but this is where your logic fails. If Rodgers really only cared about the stats.. he is going to take this mid routes all day long, complete a high percentage, save his body (to chase those records) and just keep rolling up numbers.

In this case... You know if he didn't care about scoring right before half time to possibly ice the game he might take the under route for half the yardage in place of the what 3 yard line.

So.. how is waiting to connect deep really helping his stat chase as you put it? And by the way.. go back and queue some mid career Brett film.. he was going for the homerun on almost every throw.. even if it was risky.
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Offline nerdmann  
#54 Posted : Saturday, January 5, 2013 9:10:55 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
Agreed... but this is where your logic fails. If Rodgers really only cared about the stats.. he is going to take this mid routes all day long, complete a high percentage, save his body (to chase those records) and just keep rolling up numbers.

In this case... You know if he didn't care about scoring right before half time to possibly ice the game he might take the under route for half the yardage in place of the what 3 yard line.

So.. how is waiting to connect deep really helping his stat chase as you put it? And by the way.. go back and queue some mid career Brett film.. he was going for the homerun on almost every throw.. even if it was risky.


I criticized Brett too.

Nice to see all those dump offs to Harris today.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline doddpower  
#55 Posted : Saturday, January 5, 2013 9:45:39 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
I criticized Brett too.

Nice to see all those dump offs to Harris today.


Rodgers has been taking the quick and/or check down throws often lately, and has for some time. Regardless of your opinion, this offense is built around the big play. That comes from the coaches down. The system is designed to move the ball down the field, not dink and dunk like some teams do. That aggressive approach, as was stated in the commentary tonight, is what makes Rodgers so dangerous. It's going to result in some sacks sometimes, but it also results in having one of the best offenses in the league, a super bowl championship recently, and back-to-back division titles. You may not like it, but unfortunately you're not an NFL coach designing a system. If McCarthy wanted more of a true west coast type of offense, I'm sure he would make it happen. That is obviously not the case. Most the plays are designed to look medium to deep first, and then check down if Rodgers has enough time. That's the biggest issue with dumping the ball off most the time is the quick pressure that forces Rodgers to scramble, undoubtedly making it more difficult to see the entire field. Fortunately, Rodgers is as good as any in doing so, though.

Offline wpr  
#56 Posted : Sunday, January 6, 2013 9:16:15 AM(UTC)
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Sitting at the game gives you a perspective you can not see on tv. All night long I watched Aaron Rodgers throwing to guys working themselves into the open. You can see it at the stadium 5 seconds before the throw. So while you sit on your butt watching the tv nerdmann complaining that he is going deep too much there are guys getting open and there is no reason not throw get the ball to them.
"You don't hurt 'em if you don't hit 'em." Chesty Puller



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Offline wpr  
#57 Posted : Sunday, January 6, 2013 10:48:11 AM(UTC)
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Here is the break down on Aaron Rodgers attempted passes as reported by NFL.com.
Quote:

• 1st Quarter
1-10-GB 29 (9:20) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short left to 18-R.Cobb to GB 36 for 7 yards (33-J.Sanford).
3-1-GB 38 (8:25) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete short middle to 26-D.Harris.
2-8-GB 33 (4:06) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short right to 26-D.Harris pushed ob at GB 49 for 16 yards (33-J.Sanford).
2-9- (3:14) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short middle to 88-J.Finley to MIN 40 for 10 yards (52-C.Greenway, 50-E.Henderson).
2-6-MIN 36 (2:22) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short middle to 26-D.Harris to MIN 24 for 12 yards (26-A.Winfield; 50-E.Henderson).
2-11-MIN 25 (1:10) (No Huddle) 12-A.Rodgers pass short right to 25-R.Grant to MIN 9 for 16 yards (33-J.Sanford).
Deep 0 Short 6 Sack 0

• 2nd Quarter
2-2-GB 44 (12:23) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short middle to 26-D.Harris to MIN 49 for 7 yards (52-C.Greenway).
2-11- (11:12) (No Huddle) 12-A.Rodgers sacked at GB 42 for -8 yards (69-J.Allen).
3-19-GB 42 (10:34) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short middle to 85-G.Jennings to MIN 45 for 13 yards (22-H.Smith).
2-6-GB 31 (7:53) (No Huddle) 12-A.Rodgers pass short right to 83-T.Crabtree to GB 41 for 10 yards (52-C.Greenway, 50-E.Henderson).
1-10-GB 41 (7:17) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass deep right to 89-J.Jones to MIN 39 for 20 yards (22-H.Smith).
2-8-MIN 37 (6:10) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short left to 89-J.Jones to MIN 34 for 3 yards (20-C.Cook, 26-A.Winfield).
3-5-MIN 34 (5:26) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete deep right to 87-J.Nelson.
4-5-MIN 34 (5:20) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short left to 85-G.Jennings pushed ob at MIN 2 for 32 yards (41-M.Raymond).
2-1-MIN 1 (4:09) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete short left to 88-J.Finley.
1-10-GB 38 (1:48) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short middle to 87-J.Nelson to MIN 40 for 22 yards (52-C.Greenway).
1-10-MIN 40 (1:23) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short left to 85-G.Jennings to MIN 26 for 14 yards (22-H.Smith).
1-10-MIN 26 (:56) (No Huddle) 12-A.Rodgers pass deep right to 87-J.Nelson pushed ob at MIN 3 for 23 yards (24-A.Jefferson).
1-3-MIN 3 (:49) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete short middle to 87-J.Nelson.
Deep 3 Short 9 Sack 1

• 3rd Quarter
3-2-GB 28 (13:58) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short middle to 89-J.Jones to GB 37 for 9 yards (24-A.Jefferson).
1-10-GB 37 (13:28) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers sacked at GB 33 for -4 yards (97-E.Griffen).
3-4-GB 43 (12:12) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short middle to 89-J.Jones to MIN 38 for 19 yards (22-H.Smith, 50-E.Henderson) [69-J.Allen].
1-10-MIN 38 (11:36) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short middle to 26-D.Harris to MIN 34 for 4 yards (50-E.Henderson).
2-6-MIN 34 (11:01) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short middle to 26-D.Harris to MIN 20 for 14 yards (22-H.Smith).
2-4-MIN 14 (9:45) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete short right to 30-J.Kuhn.
3-4-MIN 14 (9:35) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete short middle to 88-J.Finley (22-H.Smith).
1-9-MIN 9 (9:32) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short middle to 30-J.Kuhn for 9 yards,
3-15-GB 40 (2:38) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete short left to 18-R.Cobb.
Deep 0 Short 8 Sack 1

• 4th Quarter
3-4-GB 14 (14:18) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete deep left to 85-G.Jennings.
3-9-MIN 38 (12:39) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete deep right to 87-J.Nelson.

1-10-GB 31 (10:40) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short left to 85-G.Jennings to GB 33 for 2 yards (20-C.Cook).
2-8-GB 33 (10:02) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete deep middle to 85-G.Jennings (98-L.Guion) [69-J.Allen].
3-8-GB 33 (9:57) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short left to 30-J.Kuhn to GB 39 for 6 yards (52-C.Greenway).
3-8-GB 45 (5:03) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers sacked at GB 33 for -12 yards (99-C.Ballard).
3-5-GB 25 (3:25) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short left to 87-J.Nelson to GB 31 for 6 yards (24-A.Jefferson).
2-12-GB 29 (2:00) 12-A.Rodgers pass short right to 82-R.Taylor to GB 29 for no gain (20-C.Cook).
Deep 3 Short 4 Sack 1

Totals:
Deep 6 Short 27 Sack 3

Deep pass results:
2nd Q 20 yard gain/ Incomplete / 23 yard gain
4th Q 3 Incomplete

Down and distance when Sacked:
2nd & 11
1st & 10
3rd & 8


6 deep passes out of 33. (9 out of 36 is you assume all sacks where going to be deep passes.) This hardly looks like a guy who is loading up for the deep passes all the time.

On two of the sacks they needed a little more than a short dunk. It is stupid to throw the ball 5 yards when you need 8 and hope the receiver gets the rest of the yards unless he is totally open like Harris was a couple of times.

3 of the incomplete deep passes were in the 4th Q when the game was more or less already determined. One can argue that GB was still trying to keep their foot on the petal and push the ball down field and score again like fans scream for all the time.
One of the deep passes was just before the half and like pack93 says time dictated the need to throw deep.
I am sure everyone but a select special few understand that teams, all teams need to take a few shots down field during the game. The only way to stretch the defense and make room of the underneath game is to keep the safeties back and you do that by sending receivers deep on a consistent basis and then actually throwing them the ball some of the time.
"You don't hurt 'em if you don't hit 'em." Chesty Puller



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thanks Post received 1 applause.
DoddPower on 1/6/2013(UTC)
Offline zombieslayer  
#58 Posted : Sunday, January 6, 2013 11:47:14 AM(UTC)
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I've said it before and I'll say it again - football evolves. You cannot run Bart Starr's offense and expect it to do well today. You cannot run Joe Montana's offense and expect it to do well today.

Things keep changing. The WCO is outdated (but its concepts are used by all 32 teams). If you run a strictly WCO, enjoy watching the Playoffs from home.
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Offline nerdmann  
#59 Posted : Sunday, January 6, 2013 12:14:20 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: doddpower Go to Quoted Post
Rodgers has been taking the quick and/or check down throws often lately, and has for some time. Regardless of your opinion, this offense is built around the big play. That comes from the coaches down. The system is designed to move the ball down the field, not dink and dunk like some teams do. That aggressive approach, as was stated in the commentary tonight, is what makes Rodgers so dangerous. It's going to result in some sacks sometimes, but it also results in having one of the best offenses in the league, a super bowl championship recently, and back-to-back division titles. You may not like it, but unfortunately you're not an NFL coach designing a system. If McCarthy wanted more of a true west coast type of offense, I'm sure he would make it happen. That is obviously not the case. Most the plays are designed to look medium to deep first, and then check down if Rodgers has enough time. That's the biggest issue with dumping the ball off most the time is the quick pressure that forces Rodgers to scramble, undoubtedly making it more difficult to see the entire field. Fortunately, Rodgers is as good as any in doing so, though.



I agree, this offense is built around the big play. Part of it is MM, it's not just AR.

They both want to obliterate Favre from the record books.

They also know that they have to start playing "for real" as the playoffs approach. Hence you have a team that underperforms all season, then "starts peaking at the right time."
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline nerdmann  
#60 Posted : Sunday, January 6, 2013 12:16:14 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
Here is the break down on Aaron Rodgers attempted passes as reported by NFL.com.


6 deep passes out of 33. (9 out of 36 is you assume all sacks where going to be deep passes.) This hardly looks like a guy who is loading up for the deep passes all the time.

On two of the sacks they needed a little more than a short dunk. It is stupid to throw the ball 5 yards when you need 8 and hope the receiver gets the rest of the yards unless he is totally open like Harris was a couple of times.

3 of the incomplete deep passes were in the 4th Q when the game was more or less already determined. One can argue that GB was still trying to keep their foot on the petal and push the ball down field and score again like fans scream for all the time.
One of the deep passes was just before the half and like pack93 says time dictated the need to throw deep.
I am sure everyone but a select special few understand that teams, all teams need to take a few shots down field during the game. The only way to stretch the defense and make room of the underneath game is to keep the safeties back and you do that by sending receivers deep on a consistent basis and then actually throwing them the ball some of the time.


Drink every time the announcers say "coverage sack."
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
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