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Offline Pack93z  
#51 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2013 9:08:55 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
Boykin I would agree with. Not Ross though. Just over a month up from the practice squad and primarily doing nothing but Special teams.


But there is also the element of Cobb coming off an injury and who else would return kicks if something came up and Cobb not available? Ross was an insurance policy so to speak of.. as what other options are there past Cobb?

Personally, with Cobb nicked.. I would leave Ross back for all returns.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline wpr  
#52 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2013 9:10:50 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Porforis Go to Quoted Post
On the other hand, neither Boykin nor Ross have shown us much of anything significant in their limited opportunities, and who knows how they'll hold up under pressure in the postseason. If it's 4th and goal from the 6 with 20 seconds left in the super bowl and we're down 6, who do you want out there as the #4 - Driver, Ross, or Boykin? I'm also in the "DD should have retired last year" camp but I haven't seen enough of Ross or Boykin in high-pressure situations to make me more comfortable with them than Driver.


From the 6, speed does not matter as much so DD could be in the mix Driver might do a better job of "legally" pushing off the defender and getting open. That said Donald has dropped more than his share this year and last year so he is no guarantee to make the catch any more than the young guys.

From the 30 and beyond the answer would be Ross or Boykin.

I am in neither camp on when should Driver retire. I am willing to accept the judgement of those who actually know football players and their abilities. Therefore to answer your original question I want the players who Mike sends out on to the field. He sees them in practical and knows.

The reason it was nice to keep Driver on the roster this years was injuries. He may not have made a lot of catches but it was nice to have someone with his experience as a backup when other receivers were not able to play.
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Offline wpr  
#53 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2013 9:12:24 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
Boykin I would agree with. Not Ross though. Just over a month up from the practice squad and primarily doing nothing but Special teams.


I was referring to his special team play not his receiving abilities. Sorry to have been too vague.
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Offline Rockmolder  
#54 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2013 9:16:42 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
Every kickoff? All 3 times including the last onside kick that he grabbed and walked OB with? Boykin did not practice all week and I don't expect him to be ready to go unless possibly for the SB when we get there.

The question is, if Nelson should aggrivate his Hammy, and goes down, are we better off with Ross or Driver as the replacement for our #4 WR? We can sit back and take touchbacks and go from the 20 if the worry over getting Cobb hurt is that big. Better have him fair catch all punts in that case also. But the damage to the offensive gameplan would be far worse if Ross has to become our #4.


You can't just assume, pre-game, that the Vikings will put points on the board just twice and that one of those will be followed up with an onside kick.

On the contrary, I figured that, between a kicker who's good from anywhere within 60 yards, an option QB and with the best running back in the league by far, we'd take quite a few points from field goals with them stalling in the redzone.

If that's the case, Ross touches the ball 5 or 6 times. You just can't predict that.

And yes, I'd take Cobb off of punt returns, as well, now that we have a good 2nd option who's not as important to our offensive gameplan.

I remember having this discussion about Tramon Williams in the past.

I get it when you have a guy like Patrick Peterson, who's just head and shoulders above the rest of the return team in Arizona, but whenever you have a back-up who's doing just as good a job, why not go with him?

And good point on Boykin, of course. But that doesn't change anything. Ross has been with the team for the entire season, as well. He should know the offense. He should be able to catch a ball. I reckon his route running still isn't that crisp, as that was one of his main knocks coming out of college, but with his speed, fluidity and shiftiness he should be able to get some kind of seperation... Something Driver can't do anymore.

Leadership, knowledge etc are all good and well, but when you can't keep up physically, it's little use. I know he compensates with smarts, but there's only so much compensation you can do.

I know his snap count was way higher than Ross' or Boykin's, but I don't see what he, at this point in his career, brings to the field that one of those young guys couldn't.

Take, next to the numbers that I previously mentioned, that he makes one reception every 19 offensive snaps that he's in the game... That's not very pretty. That means that he both doesn't get a whole lot of snaps, even in an injury-riddled WR group, and when he does, he doesn't even do a whole lot with them.

In all honesty, if one of our receivers went down again, I'd go three receiver sets before I'd sent in either Driver, Ross or Boykin. We have Harris, we have Green, we have Kuhn. From our RB group alone you could get some nice passing yardage. Then add to that that we're still carrying four TEs and there's enough ways to come out pretty strong, without having to rely on Driver.
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Offline gbguy20  
#55 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2013 11:44:22 AM(UTC)
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call me Dan
Offline musccy  
#56 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2013 11:58:20 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
But there is also the element of Cobb coming off an injury and who else would return kicks if something came up and Cobb not available? Ross was an insurance policy so to speak of.. as what other options are there past Cobb?

Personally, with Cobb nicked.. I would leave Ross back for all returns.


This, and I believe I've seen Ross on punt/k.o. coverage as well.

Also, as Rockmolder mentioned, in the event that one of the top 4 wrs go down it's not like this team has to stick with 4 wr sets. They've been using TEs and extra rbs in pass pro who can easily slide into the open for a checkdown such as we've seen with Crabtree, Kuhn, and Harris.

Offline Porforis  
#57 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2013 12:00:39 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
From the 6, speed does not matter as much so DD could be in the mix Driver might do a better job of "legally" pushing off the defender and getting open. That said Donald has dropped more than his share this year and last year so he is no guarantee to make the catch any more than the young guys.

From the 30 and beyond the answer would be Ross or Boykin.


I am in neither camp on when should Driver retire. I am willing to accept the judgement of those who actually know football players and their abilities. Therefore to answer your original question I want the players who Mike sends out on to the field. He sees them in practical and knows.

The reason it was nice to keep Driver on the roster this years was injuries. He may not have made a lot of catches but it was nice to have someone with his experience as a backup when other receivers were not able to play.


Agree 100%. I think we might be able to use DD's roster spot for something more useful, but if Nelson and someone else (Finley included) went down, we could use another more physical WR in certain situations. No need to have 4 speedsters and Crabby out on the field, everyone brings something different to the table.
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Offline Pack93z  
#58 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2013 3:13:42 PM(UTC)
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A couple of Driver tweets.. yes he noticed and I don't think these are a coincidence.

Quote:
Donald Driver ‏@Donald_Driver80

My boy @Ravens Ray Lewis will walk out of the tunnel for the last time at M&T Bank Stadium. #Atruerolemodel#



Quote:

Donald Driver ‏@Donald_Driver80

Ravens and Colts game was a special moment. To see my boy Ray Lewis giving the Love. Awesome! Amazing! Congrats Ray!!!!!!
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline Pack93z  
#59 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2013 6:43:47 PM(UTC)
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Okay.. now this a bit much.

https://www.facebook.com/ActivateDonaldDriver

Quote:
Donald Driver has been a great asset to the Green Bay Packers and our community. As fans, lets join together, like this page, and convince the Packers to re-activate Donald Driver. Lets have Donald Driver end this season with a smile on his face!
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline wpr  
#60 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2013 8:04:53 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post


That will have Uncle Teddy quivering in his boots.
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Offline DakotaT  
#61 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2013 9:49:10 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post


OK, fess up, which of you nimrods started this?
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Offline wpr  
#62 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2013 6:44:20 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
OK, fess up, which of you nimrods started this?


This I love. Applause Applause Applause

We all know that you did it and are trying to make us not think it was you. Laughing
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Offline Wade  
#63 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2013 7:16:38 AM(UTC)
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I use my facebook account so little I have to reset my password every time because I've forgotten it again.
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Offline musccy  
#64 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2013 7:58:31 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
OK, fess up, which of you nimrods started this?


Guilty Blushing

Just kidding, this feels like Burt Farve all over again. Fans care more about a player than the team and/or logic. If DD, due to injuries or match-ups, gives the Pack a better chance to win, Mike McCarthy will put him out there.

Offline DakotaT  
#65 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2013 8:21:10 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: musccy Go to Quoted Post
Guilty Blushing

Just kidding, this feels like Burt Farve all over again. Fans care more about a player than the team and/or logic. If DD, due to injuries or match-ups, gives the Pack a better chance to win, Mike McCarthy will put him out there.



But that's the problem for some of these guys, he isn't putting him out there because he doesn't give the Pack a better chance to win.
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Offline musccy  
#66 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2013 9:03:17 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
But that's the problem for some of these guys, he isn't putting him out there because he doesn't give the Pack a better chance to win.


Exactly. I'm a DD fan, and admittedly I don't like seeing him, Saturday, and pretty shortly Woody's career with the Packers end awkwardly/unceremoniously, but I, along with Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy would rather see the Packers win than hand out effort awards and rice crispy squares after every game.
thanks Post received 1 applause.
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Offline steveishere  
#67 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2013 11:17:33 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
Boykin I would agree with. Not Ross though. Just over a month up from the practice squad and primarily doing nothing but Special teams.


Which is a lot more than Driver has been doing.
Offline buckeyepackfan  
#68 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2013 4:32:27 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
No, I have to be a dick because some people refuse to take off their G&G goggles and try and put this fandom guilt trip on everything which is BS. DD should not have been on the roster this season because you can throw a rook in there playing for league minimum instead of $1.2 million.


Glad you are so proud to be 'A Dick". Congratulations, you've reached your ultimate goal in life!!!
Lets review the players that wouldn't be on this team if you were evaluating talent and making your "Business decisions"

Let's start with Ryan Grant, hell you would have released him before the 2008,2009,and 2011 seasons, No way would you have brought him back this year, guy can't hit the whole, guy goes down to easy, guys over the hill,he can't contribute.
(2008, 2009 1200+rushing yds top 5 each year. Think )

All he's done since coming back is carry the load until DeJuan Harris got acclamented to the RB position.

Jarret Bush(one of the best SP teams player in the league Think ), if you were GM he would have been playing for The Titans 4 yrs ago.

A.J. Hawk, you would have released his overpaid ass 3 years ago, no way is he worth the money he's making.(Packers leading tackler in 2012 Think )

James Jones, no way was he good enough to be resigned after the 2010 season.(led the league in TD catches in 2012 Think )

Jermicheal Finley, guy talks to much and drops to many balls, you wouldn't have had to worry about resigning him after this year, because you would have jettisoned his as after last year.
Guy is pretty much unstoppable over the middle right now. Think )

Going back in time again Clifton and Tauscher in 2010 and 2011, guys were "done" (both turned in Pro bowl year in 2010 Think ).

After thinking about this, looking at your TRACK RECORD at evaluating talent and making "business" decisions.

I am more certain than ever Donald Driver will be active if not this week in Frisco, definately next week against Seattle at Lambeau!!! (yes it will all come together)

You say I have G&G goggles, can't let go of the past, YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN ANY MORE WRONG!!!

Here's the difference between you and me.

Whoever is on the field for The Packers, I'm gonna support 100%, I trust Ted and Mike's decisions, I know they are putting the best 53 on the roster and THE BEST 46 on the field that is available to them.

You on the other hand think you know more than Ted and Mike and if there is a player you don't feel is worthy in your mind, you would rather THEY FAIL just so you can beat your chest and say "I TOLD YOU SO, I TOLD YOU SO, I AM RIGHT AND EVERYONE ELSE IS WRONG".

Once again Congratulations on being the self-proclamed "Forum Dick" hope you are proud.
Enjoy the ride – It kicks and just keeps on kickin’. "Stats are for Losers"
Offline DakotaT  
#69 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2013 5:04:08 PM(UTC)
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Actually Buckeye the difference between you and I is nothing because we both use conjecture to form our opinions. My opinion comes from what I presently see on the field and yours is tainted with nostalgia. I like to go with younger guys with potential, and you prefer the names you know. I think the big difference between us is that I don't think the Packers owe any of these guys a God damn thing, whereas you seem to think a marginal veteran deserves some kind of loyalty. Grant hasn't done shit but be a stop gap, and don't even bring up the game against the JV Tennessee team that phoned in the game.
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Offline buckeyepackfan  
#70 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2013 5:32:36 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
Actually Buckeye the difference between you and I is nothing because we both use conjecture to form our opinions. My opinion comes from what I presently see on the field and yours is tainted with nostalgia. I like to go with younger guys with potential, and you prefer the names you know. I think the big difference between us is that I don't think the Packers owe any of these guys a God damn thing, whereas you seem to think a marginal veteran deserves some kind of loyalty. Grant hasn't done shit but be a stop gap, and don't even bring up the game against the JV Tennessee team that phoned in the game.


Denial....a river in Egypt. LOL LOL

Just keep posting your opinions on players, everytime you do you prove my point.

When are you goiong to realize,

I'M NOT THE ONE WHO SIGNED DD TO 1 YEAR EXTENSION,

I'M NOT THE ONE WHO CHOSE TO KEEP HIM ON THE 53 MAN ROSTER INSTEAD OF IR'ING HIM THIS YEAR.
(That would be Ted and mike)

I'M NOT THE ONE WHO CAN'T EXECPT THE FACT THAT RYAN GRANT HAS MADE A CONTRIBUTION THE LAST MONTH.
(that would be you)

The Packers rosTer is made up of 53 men, 46 are active on gameday.

I AM THE ONE WHO SUPPORTS WHOEVER THOSE 53 AND 46 PLAYERS ARE.

Enjoy the ride – It kicks and just keeps on kickin’. "Stats are for Losers"
Offline DakotaT  
#71 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2013 5:50:56 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan Go to Quoted Post
Denial....a river in Egypt. LOL LOL

Just keep posting your opinions on players, everytime you do you prove my point.

When are you goiong to realize,

I'M NOT THE ONE WHO SIGNED DD TO 1 YEAR EXTENSION,

I'M NOT THE ONE WHO CHOSE TO KEEP HIM ON THE 53 MAN ROSTER INSTEAD OF IR'ING HIM THIS YEAR.
(That would be Ted and mike)

I'M NOT THE ONE WHO CAN'T EXECPT THE FACT THAT RYAN GRANT HAS MADE A CONTRIBUTION THE LAST MONTH.
(that would be you)

The Packers rosTer is made up of 53 men, 46 are active on gameday.

I AM THE ONE WHO SUPPORTS WHOEVER THOSE 53 AND 46 PLAYERS ARE.



No shit Sherlock! So basically you are admitting to being a lemming off a cliff. What exactly is this forum for? d'oh!
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Offline Pack93z  
#72 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2013 5:58:47 PM(UTC)
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LOL... Didn't last a week. Big Grin

Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
And the best part for you is that I can't argue with you for a whole year. I'll just have to take all your hypothesis on the Packers, read them, and then bite my tongue. Do you realize how painful that will be? But it was totally worth it.

I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline buckeyepackfan  
#73 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2013 6:09:34 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
LOL... Didn't last a week. Big Grin





Always the voice of reason Pack93z

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
Enjoy the ride – It kicks and just keeps on kickin’. "Stats are for Losers"
Offline gbguy20  
#74 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2013 10:09:26 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan Go to Quoted Post
Glad you are so proud to be 'A Dick". Congratulations, you've reached your ultimate goal in life!!!
Lets review the players that wouldn't be on this team if you were evaluating talent and making your "Business decisions"

Let's start with Ryan Grant, hell you would have released him before the 2008,2009,and 2011 seasons, No way would you have brought him back this year, guy can't hit the whole, guy goes down to easy, guys over the hill,he can't contribute.
(2008, 2009 1200+rushing yds top 5 each year. Think )

All he's done since coming back is carry the load until DeJuan Harris got acclamented to the RB position.

Jarret Bush(one of the best SP teams player in the league Think ), if you were GM he would have been playing for The Titans 4 yrs ago.

A.J. Hawk, you would have released his overpaid ass 3 years ago, no way is he worth the money he's making.(Packers leading tackler in 2012 Think )

James Jones, no way was he good enough to be resigned after the 2010 season.(led the league in TD catches in 2012 Think )

Jermicheal Finley, guy talks to much and drops to many balls, you wouldn't have had to worry about resigning him after this year, because you would have jettisoned his as after last year.
Guy is pretty much unstoppable over the middle right now. Think )

Going back in time again Clifton and Tauscher in 2010 and 2011, guys were "done" (both turned in Pro bowl year in 2010 Think ).

After thinking about this, looking at your TRACK RECORD at evaluating talent and making "business" decisions.

I am more certain than ever Donald Driver will be active if not this week in Frisco, definately next week against Seattle at Lambeau!!! (yes it will all come together)

You say I have G&G goggles, can't let go of the past, YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN ANY MORE WRONG!!!

Here's the difference between you and me.

Whoever is on the field for The Packers, I'm gonna support 100%, I trust Ted and Mike's decisions, I know they are putting the best 53 on the roster and THE BEST 46 on the field that is available to them.

You on the other hand think you know more than Ted and Mike and if there is a player you don't feel is worthy in your mind, you would rather THEY FAIL just so you can beat your chest and say "I TOLD YOU SO, I TOLD YOU SO, I AM RIGHT AND EVERYONE ELSE IS WRONG".

Once again Congratulations on being the self-proclamed "Forum Dick" hope you are proud.


After reading this I am absolutely convinced you have been taking notes and I would love to hear the notes you have on me :>
call me Dan
Offline buckeyepackfan  
#75 Posted : Wednesday, January 9, 2013 2:36:43 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: gbguy20 Go to Quoted Post
After reading this I am absolutely convinced you have been taking notes and I would love to hear the notes you have on me :>


Don't have to take notes when the same subjects come up time and time again, year after year.



Enjoy the ride – It kicks and just keeps on kickin’. "Stats are for Losers"
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