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Offline Porforis  
#31 Posted : Friday, January 11, 2013 10:37:30 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: gbguy20 Go to Quoted Post
Gun control is one the most irrelevant issues we have right now, I cannot stand the fact that it seems to be the only one getting any media attention though.


Personally, I think GUN VIOLENCE is a perfectly relevant issue to be getting attention in the media. But I hate how the discussion is zeroed in almost 100% on gun control rather than looking at the social issues as well.
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Offline Formo  
#32 Posted : Friday, January 11, 2013 12:55:38 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: GermanGilbert Go to Quoted Post

Edit: And having a gun to protect yourself when anyone tries to kill you won't work out either. If you only have a gun to protect yourself, it'll be your first shot in your life. Guess who's more experienced and therefore quicker, you or the guy who want to shoot you?


Every gun owner I know (and many non-gun owners) go to ranges.

You see, when one here goes through their classes to be able to carry a gun, they are trained on everything about their gun. How to disassemble, clean, reassemble it. All the nuances of it. And how to carry, hold and fire it. Not to mention the laws regarding owning one as well.

And if one is responsible, like every gun owner I know, they take many other classes to learn more about their guns, going above and beyond what the Government deems acceptable.

So, if it were to ever to come down to an armed killer and one of the many gun owners I know, I promise you, the person I know will be more trained and informed than their assailant. And it would NOT be their first shot.
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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#33 Posted : Friday, January 11, 2013 1:17:31 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Porforis Go to Quoted Post
Personally, I think GUN VIOLENCE is a perfectly relevant issue to be getting attention in the media. But I hate how the discussion is zeroed in almost 100% on gun control rather than looking at the social issues as well.


I would say VIOLENCE is the issue. And this is my biggest problem with this entire debate right now. The gun is just what is being used most notably for the violence.

People can say somebody does't NEED this gun or that gun. And I will say, ok but they want them, and they have a protected right by the constitution to have one. The problem with this debate is, what they are focused on, won't fix anything. And losing part of our rights in a lie isn't something I will stand by for.
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Offline Porforis  
#34 Posted : Friday, January 11, 2013 3:28:56 PM(UTC)
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http://www.cnn.com/2013/...hts/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

Click the link for the full story.
Quote:
Loganville, Georgia (CNN) -- This is not a movie. There's no dramatic music in the background. A happy ending, far from a guarantee.

The concern in Donnie Herman's voice was clear as day. So was his stress. With two telephones to his ear, he listened to his wife, Melinda, as she fled into an attic of their Loganville home. With her: Her two 9-year-old children and a loaded .38 revolver.

In the house: An intruder with a crowbar.

On another line was the 911 operator Donnie Herman had called for help. Herman's words to his wife, as he sat helplessly, an hour away from the home, were recorded.

"Stay in the attic," he instructed her, calmly.

"He's in the bedroom," she told him. He repeated the words to the 911 operator.

"Shh. Relax," Herman said, trying to calm his wife.

Then he instructed her to do what was fast becoming a realistic possibility.
"Melinda -- if he opens up the door, you shoot him! You understand?"

What happened next has made the Hermans the new faces of the right to bear arms.

Melinda Herman fired a six-shot revolver at the intruder, hitting him five times, in his torso and in his face. Surprisingly, he managed to flee.

Gun rights groups say this shows that law-abiding citizens should be allowed to buy their weapon of choice and as big a magazine or ammunition clip as they like.

They remind people that Melinda Herman had only a six-shot revolver.

"It's a good thing she wasn't facing more attackers. Otherwise she would have been in trouble and she would have run out of ammunition," said Erich Pratt, director of communications for the Gun Owners of America.

"She shot him five times and he still didn't drop. This is going to endanger people's safety."


While this isn't a typical situation, this is part of why restricting magazine sizes at some of the figures being floated out there like 5 or 10 is potentially a bad idea, and why a peashooter is not always sufficient for self-defense. Heck, what if the guy's wearing body armor or is jacked up on crack or meth? Even in this case where the intruder didn't have a gun (which she had no way of knowing, and considering how many doors he broke down, he probably wasn't looking for the TV) he could have killed them with a crowbar after those 5 shots.

Edited by user Friday, January 11, 2013 3:55:55 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline GermanGilbert  
#35 Posted : Friday, January 11, 2013 4:51:31 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Formo Go to Quoted Post
Every gun owner I know (and many non-gun owners) go to ranges.

You see, when one here goes through their classes to be able to carry a gun, they are trained on everything about their gun. How to disassemble, clean, reassemble it. All the nuances of it. And how to carry, hold and fire it. Not to mention the laws regarding owning one as well.

And if one is responsible, like every gun owner I know, they take many other classes to learn more about their guns, going above and beyond what the Government deems acceptable.

So, if it were to ever to come down to an armed killer and one of the many gun owners I know, I promise you, the person I know will be more trained and informed than their assailant. And it would NOT be their first shot.


Thanks for the insight :)

The good thing is: The victims are not as helpless as I suspected them to be
The bad thing is: They are in a deperate need of preparing themselves to shoot other people, which they don't want at all (shooting, not the training)

Over here we have things as well, which we are preparing for on a regular basis and everybody hopes, that there's no occasion to ever use ist. We call it first aid classes.

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Formo on 1/12/2013(UTC)
Offline SINCITYCHEEZE  
#36 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 7:52:34 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Porforis Go to Quoted Post
http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/10/us/home-invasion-gun-rights/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

Click the link for the full story.


While this isn't a typical situation, this is part of why restricting magazine sizes at some of the figures being floated out there like 5 or 10 is potentially a bad idea, and why a peashooter is not always sufficient for self-defense. Heck, what if the guy's wearing body armor or is jacked up on crack or meth? Even in this case where the intruder didn't have a gun (which she had no way of knowing, and considering how many doors he broke down, he probably wasn't looking for the TV) he could have killed them with a crowbar after those 5 shots.




http://www.ajc.com/news/...intruder-shooting/nTrLK/

Here is a link to the entire 911 call.Including the husbands call and the next door neighbors call when the wife and kids escape. Take note,the husband tells the wife after the first set of shots ring out to SHOOT HIM AGAIN.Whatever it takes to stop an intruder I am all for it.
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Offline Porforis  
#37 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:16:56 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: GermanGilbert Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for the insight :)

The good thing is: The victims are not as helpless as I suspected them to be
The bad thing is: They are in a deperate need of preparing themselves to shoot other people, which they don't want at all (shooting, not the training)

Over here we have things as well, which we are preparing for on a regular basis and everybody hopes, that there's no occasion to ever use ist. We call it first aid classes.


I really wouldn't be opposed to mandatory gun training of some sort, however anything substantial would be an uphill legal battle. As I mentioned early in the topic, I recognize that I shouldn't have a gun - I only wish everyone else had that sort of self-awareness.
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SINCITYCHEEZE on 1/12/2013(UTC)
Offline gbguy20  
#38 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 11:31:56 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Porforis Go to Quoted Post
I really wouldn't be opposed to mandatory gun training of some sort, however anything substantial would be an uphill legal battle. As I mentioned early in the topic, I recognize that I shouldn't have a gun - I only wish everyone else had that sort of self-awareness.


In order to hunt or carry a gun you're already required to have gun training as it is. I'm pretty sure most gun clubs require you to show proof of training beforehand as well. Basically that covers almost everything you'd need a gun for. Criminals are going to use guns for violence regardless of training being required or not though....Guns don't kill people, criminals do.
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Offline Porforis  
#39 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 2:35:28 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: gbguy20 Go to Quoted Post
In order to hunt or carry a gun you're already required to have gun training as it is. I'm pretty sure most gun clubs require you to show proof of training beforehand as well. Basically that covers almost everything you'd need a gun for. Criminals are going to use guns for violence regardless of training being required or not though....Guns don't kill people, criminals do.


Is that just for concealed carry, or for any ownership of a gun? I was not aware that you needed to undergo training to simply own a firearm.
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Offline gbguy20  
#40 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 2:56:49 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Porforis Go to Quoted Post
Is that just for concealed carry, or for any ownership of a gun? I was not aware that you needed to undergo training to simply own a firearm.


conceal and carry.
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Offline Formo  
#41 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 4:33:22 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: gbguy20 Go to Quoted Post
conceal and carry.


I hate that term.

In some states, it's what having a handgun is called.. Not sure in Wisconsin. But in Minnesota, there's no such thing as conceal and carry, it's called a permit to carry. You do NOT have to conceal your weapon if you have your permit to carry, so yes.. you can actually have it holstered outside your shirt on your hip if you wanted. Not that it's recommended, but theoretically speaking.
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Offline Cheesey  
#42 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 10:53:39 AM(UTC)
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German Gilbert, Just because you don't SEE guns, doesn't mean they arn't being carried.
As is the case here, the problem is the bad guys that are concealing their guns and you have no idea who is and who isn't.
If someone were to try to attack me, i'd sure like it if there was a GOOD guy that was carrying that could come to my defense.

As far as practice, i never had any "formal" training. I was raised around guns, and was taught how to use them and that they were NOT "toys". My Dad had his rifle rack right where i could have access, yet i NEVER touched them. I knew that they could kill, and never messed with them.

Back in the 1980's, i was out phesant hunting. I saw a guy also hunting, with his dog. I stayed far away, but watched just in case he flushed a bird my way.
He called to me, and invited me to hunt with him. After the hunt, i was at my doctor's office, and mentioed that i had been out hunting. He told me he read an article in the Milwaukee Sentinel about a guy named AL, and started quoeting things i had said to the guy that invited me to hunt with him. Turns out, the guy was a writer for the Sentinel, and throughout his article kept mentioning how safe i was with my shot gun.
The guy in the article invited my to contact him to hunt with him again, which i did, getting my first bird and a half page picture in the paper. It was pretty neat!
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Offline gbguy20  
#43 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 10:58:20 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Formo Go to Quoted Post
I hate that term.

In some states, it's what having a handgun is called.. Not sure in Wisconsin. But in Minnesota, there's no such thing as conceal and carry, it's called a permit to carry. You do NOT have to conceal your weapon if you have your permit to carry, so yes.. you can actually have it holstered outside your shirt on your hip if you wanted. Not that it's recommended, but theoretically speaking.


i wish it was CONCEAL and carry. Some of my idiot acquaintances with permits like to pull em out and basically go "LOOK HOW COOL I AM I HAVE A GUN WITH ME HERP HERP."
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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#44 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 11:03:46 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Formo Go to Quoted Post
I hate that term.

In some states, it's what having a handgun is called.. Not sure in Wisconsin. But in Minnesota, there's no such thing as conceal and carry, it's called a permit to carry. You do NOT have to conceal your weapon if you have your permit to carry, so yes.. you can actually have it holstered outside your shirt on your hip if you wanted. Not that it's recommended, but theoretically speaking.


In WI you need the concealed carry permit to carry a concealed weapon. It is also legal to Open carry with no permit. You can walk down the sidewalk with any legal weapon as long as it is in the open not concealed. As long as it is not 1000 yards of a school and such. but when you get in a car, you have to put it away or have the concealed permit because the body of the car is considered to conceal the weapon.
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Offline DakotaT  
#45 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 11:55:42 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Cheesey Go to Quoted Post
German Gilbert, Just because you don't SEE guns, doesn't mean they arn't being carried.
As is the case here, the problem is the bad guys that are concealing their guns and you have no idea who is and who isn't.
If someone were to try to attack me, i'd sure like it if there was a GOOD guy that was carrying that could come to my defense.



This is the delusional position that I have a real hard time with. I wouldn't trust my next door neighbor to scoop the dog sh*t out of my back yard. Am I to somehow believe some good samaritan is going to take on a dangerous criminal to save me?

This whole position is very weak. The best thing the pro gun crowd can go with is that you need a rifle to shoot big game, a shotgun to shoot birds, and a handgun in the nightstand to protect your home. But when they go on about the "good" guys packing heat to shoot bad guys old west style - you lose my support on the issue. And as far as I'm concerned, the pro gun crowd loses the assault rifle debate.
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