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Offline CaliforniaCheez  
#1 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:45:04 PM(UTC)
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The loss in the playoffs to the 49'ers had a lot of plays where their QB just blew past Walden and Matthews. Matthews was on the ground a lot. He and Walden never demonstrated much outside containment or concern for the overall scheme.

Greene just could not get them to show any intelligence or ability to get the job done. Greene did not have them adjust and he never pulled them for their poor performance.

Will McCarthy fire him and get a better OLB coach?
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Offline all_about_da_packers  
#2 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:50:41 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: CaliforniaCheez Go to Quoted Post
The loss in the playoffs to the 49'ers had a lot of plays where their QB just blew past Walden and Matthews. Matthews was on the ground a lot. He and Walden never demonstrated much outside containment or concern for the overall scheme.

Greene just could not get them to show any intelligence or ability to get the job done. Greene did not have them adjust and he never pulled them for their poor performance.

Will McCarthy fire him and get a better OLB coach?



Perhaps the most sensible thread of the night (I'm serious).

Clay has absolutely been horrible at containment. I get he has the athleticism and motor to make things happen from scratch, but he has generally been horrendous at playing containment.

I would guess 'No' because McCarthy seems to be loyal, and Green has done a good enough job to help his players develop (especially Moses this season). But, boy, based on what I was seeing tonight Kevin Green would be the first coach on defense who has some serious explaining to do.
The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.
Offline dyeah_gb  
#3 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:58:15 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: CaliforniaCheez Go to Quoted Post
The loss in the playoffs to the 49'ers had a lot of plays where their QB just blew past Walden and Matthews. Matthews was on the ground a lot. He and Walden never demonstrated much outside containment or concern for the overall scheme.

Greene just could not get them to show any intelligence or ability to get the job done. Greene did not have them adjust and he never pulled them for their poor performance.

Will McCarthy fire him and get a better OLB coach?


I think this a valid question. I see a pattern here that the question "should xxx be fired" should be applied to just about every element of the staff. This is not just a reactionary. It really is a matter of thinking critically about what this team believes it is capable of and how much practice and preparation helps bring the team to its full potential. In the end, any staff changes should not be a vindication of a playoff loss (like DC with 4th and 26), it should be about pointing this team in the right direction to get a title.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool - R. Feynman
Offline gbguy20  
#4 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:04:20 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: CaliforniaCheez Go to Quoted Post
The loss in the playoffs to the 49'ers had a lot of plays where their QB just blew past Walden and Matthews. Matthews was on the ground a lot. He and Walden never demonstrated much outside containment or concern for the overall scheme.

Greene just could not get them to show any intelligence or ability to get the job done. Greene did not have them adjust and he never pulled them for their poor performance.

Will McCarthy fire him and get a better OLB coach?


Walden was pulled after colin's long td run, moses replaced him. defense did not improve. just sayin
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Offline CaliforniaCheez  
#5 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:14:37 PM(UTC)
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Matthews is a one trick pony.
Has he improved since he was a rookie?
Has he learned yet how to properly stretch his hamstrings before playing or are they always getting injured?
Can he cover anyone in space better?
Does he play under control or over run plays?


Do Walden and Zombo really lack the talent or could they improve with better coaching?

Why would a rookie like Moses show so much discipline? Is it because he has the least amount of Kevin Greene coaching?
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Offline gbguy20  
#6 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:16:22 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: CaliforniaCheez Go to Quoted Post
Matthews is a one trick pony.
Has he improved since he was a rookie?

Has he learned yet how to properly stretch his hamstrings before playing or are they always getting injured?
Can he cover anyone in space better?
Does he play under control or over run plays?


Do Walden and Zombo really lack the talent or could they improve with better coaching?

Why would a rookie like Moses show so much discipline? Is it because he has the least amount of Kevin Greene coaching?


uihauhauhauhaahaha
call me Dan
Offline wpr  
#7 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:55:54 AM(UTC)
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I am always willing for the Packers to improve whether it be changing player personnel or position coaches or coordinators.
Not sure all the OLB failures are Greene's fault. Not sure a different position coach would have made a difference.

CM3 is exactly what they knew he would be. A pass rusher from the LB position who occasionally is in the right place to tackle the RB as he comes his way. hat he is not is a guy who can do everything and excel at it.

I don't see how he can be a pass rusher and still stay outside to watch contain. They seem to be two different responsibilities. If he vacates his position to pressure the QB some one else (A safety?) has to rotate out and cover contain.
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yooperfan on 1/15/2013(UTC)
Online Zero2Cool  
#8 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 8:09:20 AM(UTC)
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I'd rather see Kevin Greene as the DC than fired.
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Offline play2win  
#9 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 8:45:24 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: CaliforniaCheez Go to Quoted Post
Matthews is a one trick pony.
Has he improved since he was a rookie?
Has he learned yet how to properly stretch his hamstrings before playing or are they always getting injured?
Can he cover anyone in space better?
Does he play under control or over run plays?


Do Walden and Zombo really lack the talent or could they improve with better coaching?

Why would a rookie like Moses show so much discipline? Is it because he has the least amount of Kevin Greene coaching?


Seems more a personnel issue overall. Last year we were in need of pass rush opposite Matthews. This year we were in need of pass rush opposite Matthews. How many years does this go unaddressed? Well, I can count two in a row now. Unaddressed.

I know we drafted Perry. We needed more. Way more. And when players go down with injury, it is the GM's responsibility to find another player at the position. Didn't happen, two years in the running.

Can anyone here believe we are STILL talking about Walden and Zombo???!!!!

Fucking A!!!!!!
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yooperfan on 1/15/2013(UTC)
Offline gbguy20  
#10 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 11:20:36 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Seems more a personnel issue overall. Last year we were in need of pass rush opposite Matthews. This year we were in need of pass rush opposite Matthews. How many years does this go unaddressed? Well, I can count two in a row now. Unaddressed.

I know we drafted Perry. We needed more. Way more. And when players go down with injury, it is the GM's responsibility to find another player at the position. Didn't happen, two years in the running.

Can anyone here believe we are STILL talking about Walden and Zombo???!!!!

Fucking A!!!!!!


So we needed more after we drafted Perry? who should we have skipped in the draft then? Hayward? Worthy?

You guys can bitch and bitch all you want saying that certain needs aren't addressed. Almost our entire draft went defense, and man did our draft produce this year. Sure, when Perry went down as you said Ted Thompson could have went out and replaced him, but you seem to forget, there isn't all that many talented free agent gems out there in the middle of the season. I understand everyone is frustrated, but at least be realistic with your demands.
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Offline play2win  
#11 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 11:26:53 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: gbguy20 Go to Quoted Post
So we needed more after we drafted Perry? who should we have skipped in the draft then? Hayward? Worthy?

You guys can bitch and bitch all you want saying that certain needs aren't addressed. Almost our entire draft went defense, and man did our draft produce this year. Sure, when Perry went down as you said Ted Thompson could have went out and replaced him, but you seem to forget, there isn't all that many talented free agent gems out there in the middle of the season. I understand everyone is frustrated, but at least be realistic with your demands.


There is more to building a playoff winning team than the draft. When was Perry lost for the season? What did Ted do to replace him?

Damn right I will bitch about the stupid shit I witnessed this season. While there was a lot of good, especially with some of the younger guys we brought in, there was a lot of bad.

We did nothing in FA. We made no trades to upgrade our talent. Ted has to own that if he wants to continue to build his team strictly via a draft & develop philosophy. It clearly is not working in totality. Some of it works great, but I think he could provide better balance.
Offline gbguy20  
#12 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 11:32:03 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
There is more to building a playoff winning team than the draft. When was Perry lost for the season? What did Ted do to replace him?

Damn right I will bitch about the stupid shit I witnessed this season. While there was a lot of good, especially with some of the younger guys we brought in, there was a lot of bad.


Like I said, who was there to bring in? No one.
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Offline play2win  
#13 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 11:34:15 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: gbguy20 Go to Quoted Post
Like I said, who was there to bring in? No one.


He could have tried a trade.
Offline gbguy20  
#14 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 11:44:15 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
He could have tried a trade.


1)How do you know he didn't?
2)Trades sure happen all the time in the NFL.
3)Who should he have traded for? Who or what should he have given up?
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Offline play2win  
#15 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 11:51:21 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: gbguy20 Go to Quoted Post
1)How do you know he didn't?
2)Trades sure happen all the time in the NFL.
3)Who should he have traded for? Who or what should he have given up?


The hypotheticals there are immense. Fact of note is he has made none, neither trades nor FA signings, with 2 seasons of the exact same needs staring him right in the face: pass rush opposite Matthews.

True or no? He had time to try to address this even after Perry was lost for the year.

Two years later, we still see Walden and Zombo out there. You may call it "bitching," but these are very real problems, and concerns there are not unfounded.

Message modified by user Sunday, January 13, 2013 12:01:31 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline gbguy20  
#16 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 12:07:20 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
The hypotheticals there are immense. Fact of note is he has made none, neither trades nor FA signings, with 2 seasons of the exact same needs staring him right in the face: pass rush opposite Matthews.

True or no? He had time to try to address this even after Perry was lost for the year.

Two years later, we still see Walden and Zombo out there. You may call it "bitching," but these are very real problems, and concerns there are not unfounded.


The fact that you are holding it against him for not replacing a player midseason is kind of ridiculous, and when you cool off from last night you will realize that. I'll play ball with your other comment though, who should he have signed in the offseason then?
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Offline play2win  
#17 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 12:48:08 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: gbguy20 Go to Quoted Post
The fact that you are holding it against him for not replacing a player midseason is kind of ridiculous, and when you cool off from last night you will realize that. I'll play ball with your other comment though, who should he have signed in the offseason then?


No, I hold it against Ted Thompson for letting this go on for two years. I like Ted, a lot, but this is exactly what killed us LAST year. Would you not, as GM, have had plans A, B, and C at the ready to increase pass rush, after the worst defense in NFL history was notched up there by YOUR team?

I don't have the answers, but it is clear the one guy who should have didn't either. I'm just a fan, but I've followed this team for 50 yrs. We have a ton of potential, but it all goes to waste when these important areas of the team go unchecked.
Online Zero2Cool  
#18 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 12:55:06 PM(UTC)
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I don't think Mike McCarthy will fire Kevin Greene, maybe promote, but not fire. Erik Walden filled in very well for Nick Perry when he was spelled from time to time. No team in the NFL has 22 starting caliber backups at each starting position and DEMANDING as such is absurdly unreasonable.

Kevin Greene is doing fine.
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Offline gbguy20  
#19 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 12:58:19 PM(UTC)
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How many players could he possibly have at 1 position?
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Offline Gaycandybacon  
#20 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 2:38:00 PM(UTC)
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I love it. After a loss everyone that is anyone criticizes everyone on the Packers. Even the players that play their hearts out.

Here's my thoughts:

For the defense, for as good as Capers has been the fist 2 seasons with us. We need to find someone new. Maybe even get a whole new defensive staff. Or else this scheme is gonna get picked apart from year to year. It happens guys.
Compared to 2010, injures caught up to us. We lost all our pass rushers and d-line depth plus the secondary didn't play good enough down the stretch, especially in run support.
Offline QCHuskerFan  
#21 Posted : Tuesday, January 15, 2013 1:06:24 PM(UTC)
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TT is a dumba**. He could have traded for any defensive player he wanted in midseason. He had the perfect trade material. Who wouldn't have wanted Rodgers in a trade in mid October?

Sarcasm.
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Zero2Cool on 1/15/2013(UTC)
Offline yooperfan  
#22 Posted : Tuesday, January 15, 2013 2:26:26 PM(UTC)
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In a word: No.
Offline Porforis  
#23 Posted : Tuesday, January 15, 2013 3:36:09 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
TT is a dumba**. He could have traded for any defensive player he wanted in midseason. He had the perfect trade material. Who wouldn't have wanted Rodgers in a trade in mid October?

Sarcasm.


Hey, I was saying we should trade Rodgers for Ponder. Rodger's last game? His backup torches the Lions for 400+ yards.

And look at the Vikings when Ponder went down.

Therefore, Ponder >>> Rodgers.
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Offline Gaycandybacon  
#24 Posted : Tuesday, January 15, 2013 7:47:54 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
The hypotheticals there are immense. Fact of note is he has made none, neither trades nor FA signings, with 2 seasons of the exact same needs staring him right in the face: pass rush opposite Matthews.

True or no? He had time to try to address this even after Perry was lost for the year.

Two years later, we still see Walden and Zombo out there. You may call it "bitching," but these are very real problems, and concerns there are not unfounded.


Walden played well early in the season, so did Moses. So they felt confident sending Perry on IR and playing with those guys. They just didn't cut it when it counted.

I'm not blaming Ted Thompson or Mike McCarthy or Dom for this. They had to work with what they had. I bet there was nothing better out there.

We will probably part ways with Walden and Zombo out if they don't preform well. Which I think Walden will be gone. Zombo still has a chance. He's been hurt.
Offline Wade  
#25 Posted : Wednesday, January 16, 2013 6:27:02 AM(UTC)
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1. Walden: Walden's biggest problem IMO is his inconsistency. He's played great (e.g., playoff game against Minnesota, IMO). And he's played horrible (e.g., playoff game against SF). I give him a bit of a mulligan for 2011 because of "home/personal issues" -- regardless of who is in right or not, those things can affect productivity in many ways. But I don't know what to think given 2012's performance. Where does consistency come from? Can it be developed by the right coach? Is it a question of "growing up"? Can he do a James Jones and go from maddingly inconsistent to a rock? Based on how "the light went on" or whatever you want to call it happened with Jones, I want Walden back AND competing for a starting spot.
2. Perry. Jury's still out here. If the key word for Walden is "inconsistent", the key word for Perry is "potential". He's a first rounder, so the potential is clearly there. But prior to his injury, had he really shown all that much since being drafted. I'm not saying he won't be a great player. Though I'm on record as saying at the time I didn't like the pick, I think he does have to be considered the front-runner/presumptive starter in 2013 because of his draft position. I think it's his job to lose.
3. Free agency. It's almost pointless to talk about big names, since it is so unlikely that Ted Thompson will ever be a major player at the beginning of free agency, but what do people think of Avril from Detroit. I seem to recall a story somewhere that Detroit is *not* going to be franchising him this go-round. Would he fit the Packer system? Is he overrated/underrated? Is he someone worth "over-spending"?
4. Greene (original thread). I think the Packers interior underperformed big time in the SF game. It seems to me the ILBs were part of that, and so it is a black mark for Greene in my book. But the failure in the center was so systematic (Raji was back to his first-2/3rds-of-season underwhelming, as was the secondary; even my man, Ryan Pickett, had a less than stellar game in-between the plays he missed because of injury). I think all the defensive coaches deserve more scrutiny because of it, but I don't think Greene should be singled out.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
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