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Offline all_about_da_packers  
#26 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:55:46 PM(UTC)
all_about_da_packers

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Originally Posted by: dyeah_gb Go to Quoted Post
On a purely objective level, I think there is adequate evidence to dump Capers with little downside. Last year's team was not riddled with injuries and gave up the most yards out of 32 teams.


And to counter: this year's defence, minus all playmakers (Bishop, Woodson, Collins) except Clay and playing 6 rookies at times was generally average. Even then, Clay missed like 4 games, too.

I'm not sure I can think of any other DC outside of Rex Ryan (he's out of the question) or Jim Bates (he ain't coming back) who could have done much better than Capers, given what Capers had.
The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.
Offline K_Buz  
#27 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:57:53 PM(UTC)
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Its like the D didn't expect the read-option and didn't prepare for it. I am open for a D Coordinator change. This is two years in a row that we have looked utterly lost...unprepared...silly out there.

(side note...as I watch Rodger's press conference...did he chip a tooth?)

Offline musccy  
#28 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:03:34 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: all_about_da_packers Go to Quoted Post
And to counter: this year's defence, minus all playmakers (Bishop, Woodson, Collins) except Clay and playing 6 rookies at times was generally average. Even then, Clay missed like 4 games, too.

I'm not sure I can think of any other DC outside of Rex Ryan (he's out of the question) or Jim Bates (he ain't coming back) who could have done much better than Capers, given what Capers had.


You're citing Collins to make your argument? He was released before F.A. and woodson is very close to the end if not already there. Clay missing 4 games in November has nothing to do with giving up 600 yards tonight.

Offline shield4life  
#29 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:19:09 PM(UTC)
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Truth be told Eric Walden shouldn't even be playing IMO, luckily for him there's always a LB getting injured.

IMO, Perry's speed and Bishop's middle present was missed today.

Executions was terrible out there.

Muffed punt ---> 7 points
Aaron Rodgers pulling a Brett Favre ---> 7 points

That we're 14 points that we just handed them over. Let's not forget also that Rodgers did fumble the ball and luckily he landed on it could of been a different outcome.

The muffed punt did really change momentum of this game, we had killed the crowd @ that point and we're going to ride down the momentum but just killed everything handed the momentum back to the 49ers and they didn't look back!
Glad To Be A Packers Fan.
Offline gbguy20  
#30 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:20:27 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mortfini Go to Quoted Post
You might laugh but dam lovey can coach D


I don't think we have the personnel to run Lovie's D
call me Dan
Offline El3ment12  
#31 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:23:18 PM(UTC)
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Does anyone else wonder if the D was really being run by Nick Collins in 2010? We have never been the same without him.
Offline gbguy20  
#32 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:23:43 PM(UTC)
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BRING BACK NICK
call me Dan
Offline musccy  
#33 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:25:12 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: shield4life Go to Quoted Post
Truth be told Eric Walden shouldn't even be playing IMO, luckily for him there's always a LB getting injured.

IMO, Perry's speed and Bishop's middle present was missed today.

Executions was terrible out there.

Muffed punt ---> 7 points
Aaron Rodgers pulling a Brett Favre ---> 7 points

That we're 14 points that we just handed them over. Let's not forget also that Rodgers did fumble the ball and luckily he landed on it could of been a different outcome.

The muffed punt did really change momentum of this game, we had killed the crowd @ that point and we're going to ride down the momentum but just killed everything handed the momentum back to the 49ers and they didn't look back!


I don't buy the whole momentum thing...the Packers were gashed before and after that.

I agree with the execution. The OLBs (including cm3) were getting schooled on the edges looking lost, no discipline, and that's what really killed the team tonight.
Offline all_about_da_packers  
#34 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:26:55 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: musccy Go to Quoted Post
You're citing Collins to make your argument? He was released before F.A. and woodson is very close to the end if not already there. Clay missing 4 games in November has nothing to do with giving up 600 yards tonight.




You're missing the scope of my argument; it was not directed to tonight's game at all. To recap:

dyeah_gb stated: objective evidence (last year's performance) is adequate to justify Capers' firing.

My counter: the performance of this year (minus 3 of our 4 playmakers from last year + missing our best playmaker for a month + having to deal with having 6 rookies see extended playing time) where our defence was average in the rankings provides evidence that suggests Capers does not necessarily deserve to be fired.

We were abysmal tonight. But decisions based entirely on 1 game are pretty rash, and hardly favourable when compared to decisions based on an entire body of work because it provides a much larger sample size on which to base conclusions.
The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.
Offline shield4life  
#35 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:28:00 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: musccy Go to Quoted Post
I don't buy the whole momentum thing...the Packers were gashed before and after that.

I agree with the execution. The OLBs (including cm3) were getting schooled on the edges looking lost, no discipline, and that's what really killed the team tonight.


I'm pissed how about you?
Glad To Be A Packers Fan.
Offline musccy  
#36 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:33:46 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: all_about_da_packers Go to Quoted Post
You're missing the scope of my argument; it was not directed to tonight's game at all. To recap:

dyeah_gb stated: objective evidence (last year's performance) is adequate to justify Capers' firing.

My counter: the performance of this year (minus 3 of our 4 playmakers from last year + missing our best playmaker for a month + having to deal with having 6 rookies see extended playing time) where our defence was average in the rankings provides evidence that suggests Capers does not necessarily deserve to be fired.

We were abysmal tonight. But decisions based entirely on 1 game are pretty rash, and hardly favourable when compared to decisions based on an entire body of work because it provides a much larger sample size on which to base conclusions.


I understand what you're saying...and for the record I don't necessarily feel Capers should be fired...i'm on the fence...i'm worried about the personnel, esp. With meat on the line in a 3-4.
Offline shield4life  
#37 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:36:55 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: musccy Go to Quoted Post
I understand what you're saying...and for the record I don't necessarily feel Capers should be fired...i'm on the fence...i'm worried about the personnel, esp. With meat on the line in a 3-4.


What actually makes you think that keeping him would improve this defense?
Glad To Be A Packers Fan.
Offline doddpower  
#38 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:42:04 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: musccy Go to Quoted Post
I understand what you're saying...and for the record I don't necessarily feel Capers should be fired...i'm on the fence...i'm worried about the personnel, esp. With meat on the line in a 3-4.


Capers is good at times, but he has consistently struggled against top tier QBs. He's often slow to adjust, if he adjusts at all, and consistently has communication issues throughout his defense. He can shine at times, but I don't think the drop-off would be substantial with another coordinator, and the right person could perhaps be much better. Sometimes it's necessary to get a fresh mind in, especially with the way the NFL is changing. In other words, Capers isn't horrible, generally speaking, but he is at times, and often when it matters most. There is never an excuse for giving up as many yards as they did today, especially in the divisional round of the playoffs. It just can't happen. With a performance that bad, one game has to weigh more than it ordinarily would, imo. His defense was once again humiliated on the big stage, and I don't see how the Packers can let that stand. It's all about accountability. Capers may be able to consistently produce average, but shaky, defenses, but some of the unexplainable collapses are absolutely unacceptable. I would find it hard to believe someone out there couldn't do more with this defense, and the Packers could perhaps find the next "bright-mind" in the process. It's likely a 'risk' worth taking.
Offline all_about_da_packers  
#39 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:42:55 PM(UTC)
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Don't get me wrong - I am also on the fence about keeping Capers and/or position coaches.

So, according to McCarthy: we did not execute. On D, we tried different things, but none of them worked because of bad execution. To add, says they did not do on offence what they wanted.

This has become a broken record. I'm hoping McCarthy takes this as a kick in the balls and realizes he better scheme up improved personnel packages and schemes this off-season. I do not know how many times our offense has not been able to do what it wanted. And something needs to be done to ensure execution of Defense - I'm not sure simply adding players is going to fix that part of the equation.
The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.
Offline shield4life  
#40 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:43:42 PM(UTC)
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Glad To Be A Packers Fan.
Offline Yerko  
#41 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:48:00 PM(UTC)
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Maybe it's overreaction but I was one foot in last year with the firing of Dom Capers. Yeah, it is easier to coach from the couch but what the hell did the 49ers offense do??? In order...
- Kaepernick drop back, run.
- Kaepernick drop back, pass to Crabtree.

How are adjustments not made? There were more plays where there was not a spy on Kaepernick and guess what the guy did when this was apparent?

When Capers' defense is predictable from your own couch, there is a problem. Yes, the Packers had injuries throughout the season and have a lot of young (talented) players but the job of Capers is to adjust his scheme to what he can do with these players. What happened against the 49ers was 1. predictable and 2. embarrassing.

Done with Capers.
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Offline musccy  
#42 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:49:37 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: all_about_da_packers Go to Quoted Post
Don't get me wrong - I am also on the fence about keeping Capers and/or position coaches.

So, according to McCarthy: we did not execute. On D, we tried different things, but none of them worked because of bad execution. To add, says they did not do on offence what they wanted.

This has become a broken record. I'm hoping McCarthy takes this as a kick in the balls and realizes he better scheme up improved personnel packages and schemes this off-season. I do not know how many times our offense has not been able to do what it wanted. And something needs to be done to ensure execution of Defense - I'm not sure simply adding players is going to fix that part of the equation.


Exactly...if you're not executing what you want then f'n fix it. At the end of the season it's clear edge play killed this team...an unwillingness or inability of the secondary to tackle AP, no ability/discipline to contain the edge, brad jones can't get off the block of an f'n wr...
Offline all_about_da_packers  
#43 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 11:00:43 PM(UTC)
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I get McCarthy likes big plays. I get Aaron likes to go deep.

But how about having some bunch formations? How about a more short and intermediate passing attack? I like the different packages and formations that they have incorporated to take advantage of Cobb. But it'd be awful nice to have plays where our WRs / Finley is running free because of another receiver picked off a DB.

Jennings showed he still had something left, Finley is a walking mismatch, and Cobb emerged in the slot. How about using all 3 of those players in bunch formation so they all have a chance to utilize the middle of the field while not being pressed?

I really hope we get some more creative packages this off-season. Especially if Jennings and Finley come back.
The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.
Offline doddpower  
#44 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 11:05:00 PM(UTC)
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Sometimes I wonder if having all of the Packers WRs healthy can almost be overwhelming at times to the coaching staff. It's got to be difficult to find ways to fully utilize the talents of all the players, especially if the offensive snaps have been limited. I could see it being possible to get into a rut and fail to fully utilize the talent that is available.
Offline musccy  
#45 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 11:06:57 PM(UTC)
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Packers' OT is raising some good points right now. If you want Capers fired then...

1) Who do you replace Capers with?
2) the roster is currently built for a 3-4 and even for a 3-4 they are dangerously thin at the line, and deep with servicable talent at lb.

So who is the better 3-4 coach out there, and do you consider a personnel and scheme overhaul in the offseason?

I'm not saying don't fire capers, but it's not as easy as, get rid of him and it's an easy clean upgrade
Offline doddpower  
#46 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 11:11:57 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: musccy Go to Quoted Post
Packers' OT is raising some good points right now. If you want Capers fired then...

1) Who do you replace Capers with?
2) the roster is currently built for a 3-4 and even for a 3-4 they are dangerously thin at the line, and deep with servicable talent at lb.

So who is the better 3-4 coach out there, and do you consider a personnel and scheme overhaul in the offseason?

I'm not saying don't fire capers, but it's not as easy as, get rid of him and it's an easy clean upgrade



Of course it's not easy. Firing a coach doesn't instantly make a team better in anyway. I feel as if that's rhetorical. It's a risk vs. reward approach. It's not up for us fans to decide who to replace Capers with. That's up to the guys getting paid to do so and who have a detailed knowledge of whats out there. If they truly feel it would absolutely not be possible to upgrade from Capers, then yeah, I guess you ride him out for one more season and see what happens. As I said earlier though, I find it hard to believe that there is not a single coach out there that couldn't at least coach close to Capers level. He could, perhaps, be even better. That's always the risk an organization takes when making a new hire, just like the Packers did when hiring Mike McCarthy. When intelligent decisions are made though, it can often work out nicely.
Offline musccy  
#47 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 11:23:38 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: doddpower Go to Quoted Post
Of course it's not easy. Firing a coach doesn't instantly make a team better in anyway. I feel as if that's rhetorical. It's a risk vs. reward approach. It's not up for us fans to decide who to replace Capers with. That's up to the guys getting paid to do so and who have a detailed knowledge of whats out there. If they truly feel it would absolutely not be possible to upgrade from Capers, then yeah, I guess you ride him out for one more season and see what happens. As I said earlier though, I find it hard to believe that there is not a single coach out there that couldn't at least coach close to Capers level. He could, perhaps, be even better. That's always the risk an organization takes when making a new hire, just like the Packers did when hiring Mike McCarthy. When intelligent decisions are made though, it can often work out nicely.


And I agree with what you're saying, and I'm not saying I'm not for firing Capers...It's just that it's the it's the easy knee jerk solution, but then what's the exit strategy? We're seeing with the eagles who swung and missed with 3 hc candidates. The debate is the same with romo, who else do you draft or bring in at this point?

Again, maybe there is someone else out there, quite frankly, as you alluded to, I have better things to do than to scout dc candidates lying in the weeds, I'm just saying we cant assume (necessarily) the grass is greener even if our grass may be a little brown.
Offline doddpower  
#48 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 11:27:41 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: musccy Go to Quoted Post
Again, maybe there is someone else out there, quite frankly, as you alluded to, I have better things to do than to scout dc candidates lying in the weeds, I'm just saying we cant assume (necessarily) the grass is greener even if our grass may be a little brown.


heh, yeah, that's where I'm at. Definitely better ways to spend ones time. I"m just sticking with my opinion that I would be very surprised if there wasn't someone out there that couldn't do a similar job as Capers. Is there really not a single other coach that could hold an opposing team to under 500 yards and 40 points in the divisional round of the playoffs with the Packers talent? Maybe not, but that would be surprising to me.

Offline Bigbyfan  
#49 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 11:40:40 PM(UTC)
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I'm in favor of a switch at defensive coordinator. Our defense needs a more aggressive philosophy. All the great defenses in the league have a swagger about them as if they won't take shit from anybody, such as the Seahawks, 9ers, Steelers. Our defense continues to get pushed around and seems too content on going for the strip instead of laying the wood on a player. I don't care how talented offensive players are, if the defense continues to hit them everytime they get the ball it will affect them. This mentality has to be taught to a team from the start of OTA's. Dom Capers is not the coach who will do that.
blank
Offline musccy  
#50 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 11:52:26 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Bigbyfan Go to Quoted Post
I'm in favor of a switch at defensive coordinator. Our defense needs a more aggressive philosophy. All the great defenses in the league have a swagger about them as if they won't take shit from anybody, such as the Seahawks, 9ers, Steelers. Our defense continues to get pushed around and seems too content on going for the strip instead of laying the wood on a player. I don't care how talented offensive players are, if the defense continues to hit them everytime they get the ball it will affect them. This mentality has to be taught to a team from the start of OTA's. Dom Capers is not the coach who will do that.


This seems more personnel related than coaching. If you're small, weak, and can't disengage from blocks, you're done right there.
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