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Offline Cal2GreenBay  
#1 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:20:17 PM(UTC)
Cal2GreenBay

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The defense has to be rebuilt. We need more power up front. The offensive line of the niners is way to o strong. We need a defense like the Seahawks.

Aaron has peaked, sad for me to say,
Alex smith was leading stats and got pulled for is guy, you can see why,
Kaepernick is the future and it is now.

This happened to Farve too.
The team had to be rebuilt during his prime years after losing to Denver and San Francisco.
Looks like it needs to happen again, or else Aaron may be a one Super Bowl guy like Favre.

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Packerchick on 1/12/2013(UTC)
Offline rabidgopher04  
#2 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:45:36 PM(UTC)
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Pick up Osi Umenyiora and see what he has left. Move up in the draft. Packers need a guy on the line who is disruptive (like Jared Allen, JPP, Justin Tuck, JJ Watt, etc.).
Do you like bacon?
Offline RajiRoar  
#3 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:46:18 PM(UTC)
Laser Gunns

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I keep trying to type stuff..

But I can't without extreme bitching.. So I'm out for a while.


MintBaconDrivel

Dec, 11, 2012 - FOREVER!
Offline RajiRoar  
#4 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:50:13 PM(UTC)
Laser Gunns

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1 more note actually.

This team cannot be the "Green Bay Rodgers" anymore

No D
No running game


The guy has no help if he has a bad day.


MintBaconDrivel

Dec, 11, 2012 - FOREVER!
Offline musccy  
#5 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:58:20 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Cal2GreenBay Go to Quoted Post
The defense has to be rebuilt. We need more power up front. The offensive line of the niners is way to o strong. We need a defense like the Seahawks.

Aaron has peaked, sad for me to say,
Alex smith was leading stats and got pulled for is guy, you can see why,
Kaepernick is the future and it is now.

This happened to Farve too.
The team had to be rebuilt during his prime years after losing to Denver and San Francisco.
Looks like it needs to happen again, or else Aaron may be a one Super Bowl guy like Favre.



Aaron has PEAKED?!? Did Kappernick peak at Seattle?!? What evidence do you have to support this?

I will admit this b.s. read option horse shit offense is taking over the league and I have no clue how you stop it, but it doesn't mean Aaron is "peaked". Brady and Manning are 2 favorites for MVP even this year and they're as mobile as a marble statue.
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Since69 on 1/13/2013(UTC)
Offline dyeah_gb  
#6 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:04:57 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: musccy Go to Quoted Post
Aaron has PEAKED?!? Did Kappernick peak at Seattle?!? What evidence do you have to support this?

I will admit this b.s. read option horse shit offense is taking over the league and I have no clue how you stop it, but it doesn't mean Aaron is "peaked". Brady and Manning are 2 favorites for MVP even this year and they're as mobile as a marble statue.


I think Rodgers played as good this year as last year. I do maybe question a bit of his intelligence or ability to learn from his mistakes at this point. For example, the INT going for the money shot to Nelson 40+ yds down the field on 3rd down. It is hard to tell how much this is Rodgers or the offensive scheme though.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool - R. Feynman
Offline blueleopard  
#7 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:04:58 PM(UTC)
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NO NFL DEFENSE CAN STOP THE READ-OPTION... YET.

Until somebody figures it out, we can't be hoping to beat San Francisco. The only way to stop the read-option is to also have an offense that has the read-option. The only team that has that is Seattle, and I fucking hate Seattle.

Do we need to re-load? Yeah, we might need faster inside linebackers like SF has. But I think Shields and Hayward are our corners of the future. Tramon needs to watch for the ball instead of trying to stop his opposition.

On offense, we need better offensive linemen. Maybe it's the scheme. I don't know, but Rodgers can't be running around all the time.
Danreb Victorio A Believer of Greg Jennings
Offline shield4life  
#8 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:06:31 PM(UTC)
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We need bigger o-line, we need to pick a more impact RB. More physical CB to match up well against WR that are monsters.Another MLB & D-Linemen!
Glad To Be A Packers Fan.
Offline rabidgopher04  
#9 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:09:42 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: shield4life Go to Quoted Post
We need bigger o-line, we need to pick a more impact RB. More physical CB to match up well against WR that are monsters.Another MLB & D-Linemen!


I would be more than happy to roll with DuJuan Harris again. He's looked better and better the more he played.
Do you like bacon?
Offline Cal2GreenBay  
#10 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:29:40 PM(UTC)
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I agree with others that the read option offense has no answer right now.
I also agree that Seattle also runs it and they are the most annoying team in a long time.

ThAt being said, the Seattle athletic defense is the blueprint to follow.
You need athletic, powerful dlineman. Easier said than done to find.
Green Bays offensive line also needs to be rebuilt.

All of this we all seem to agree,

When I say Aaron has peaked, I mean, the future of the NFL looks like Kaepernick, RG3 and Russell Wilson.

Brady, Rodgers, and Manning are still at the top of their games, but going back to the read option thing, there is a dynamic QB blueprint that defenses have not been able to solve.

The QB play of Rodgers, Brady, and Manning don't have that element, and that's why there is a ceiling or peak. This is why Harbaugh benched alex smith for Kap. That is why I said Aaron has peaked. He is not going to get any faster. He is as good as he can be.

The landscape of the NFL has changed in a matter of 3 years since the Green Bay Super Bowl.

Like the last poster said, we will need to incorporate a dynamic player, and develop a super athletic D to compete with teams like the niners or Seahawks or another Super Bowl will be out of reach for a long time.

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Offline doddpower  
#11 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:52:15 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Cal2GreenBay Go to Quoted Post
I agree with others that the read option offense has no answer right now.
I also agree that Seattle also runs it and they are the most annoying team in a long time.

ThAt being said, the Seattle athletic defense is the blueprint to follow.
You need athletic, powerful dlineman. Easier said than done to find.
Green Bays offensive line also needs to be rebuilt.

All of this we all seem to agree,

When I say Aaron has peaked, I mean, the future of the NFL looks like Kaepernick, RG3 and Russell Wilson.

Brady, Rodgers, and Manning are still at the top of their games, but going back to the read option thing, there is a dynamic QB blueprint that defenses have not been able to solve.

The QB play of Rodgers, Brady, and Manning don't have that element, and that's why there is a ceiling or peak. This is why Harbaugh benched alex smith for Kap. That is why I said Aaron has peaked. He is not going to get any faster. He is as good as he can be.

The landscape of the NFL has changed in a matter of 3 years since the Green Bay Super Bowl.

Like the last poster said, we will need to incorporate a dynamic player, and develop a super athletic D to compete with teams like the niners or Seahawks or another Super Bowl will be out of reach for a long time.




Eh, I think defenses will adjust to the read option. Sure, it might always have a place, but just like so many other offensive "fads," defenses eventually catch up. The most ideal blue-print in the NFL will always be to have an intelligent pocket-style passer that is in complete control of the offense. Any ability to run and such is just an added bonus. I'll believe in the "running QB" style of offense when there is a large enough data set of Super Bowl championships to support it.

The 49'ers just have an amazing amount of talent across the board, offense, defense, and even special teams (at least usually, but certainly their punter). As was said in the game, most every team in the league would love to have such a powerful offensive line. They make absolutely everything else the rest of the offense does easier. They also have an elite defense with elite players at every level. It's just a lot to match up with. To me, it still comes down to talent more than anything, followed by execution. Tonight, the 49'ers executed almost perfectly and the Packers did not. Therefore, the end result is not surprising at all. Overall, the 49'ers are a more talented team than the Packers, so the Packers simply don't have the room to not execute properly and expect to win.
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musccy on 1/12/2013(UTC)
Offline musccy  
#12 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:57:14 PM(UTC)
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Nail on the head doddpower. First, although tough to admit, it's clear the 49'ers are a better team. They clearly demonstrated that twice this year.

Also, the wildcat was once the read option, but that was stopped. You need tremendous discipline and athleticism at the edges to stop it, but I think it can be stopped...if for no other reason franchise qbs will get creamed/injured such as vick was in his heyday or rg3
Offline Cal2GreenBay  
#13 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 11:14:39 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: musccy Go to Quoted Post
Nail on the head doddpower. First, although tough to admit, it's clear the 49'ers are a better team. They clearly demonstrated that twice this year.

Also, the wildcat was once the read option, but that was stopped. You need tremendous discipline and athleticism at the edges to stop it, but I think it can be stopped...if for no other reason franchise qbs will get creamed/injured such as vick was in his heyday or rg3


Kaepernick is not a terrible passer like Vick is/was. Rg3 takes too many risks to injure himself but is also a good pocket passer.

My point was that Kap was not just a runner. Look at his QB rating. He was just as much a pocket passer as Aaron was tonight. Russell Wilson is also a good pocket passer too.

Their athleticism separates them from the current crop of pocket pass leaders, Brady, manning, and Rodgers.

My point is that Jim Harbaugh knew that if the niners played in the playoffs wih Alex smith, even with their better talent, they may not have won. They won because of the defense, oline, AND Kaepernicks ability to PASS and RUN more dynamically than Alex Smith.

The body of work to prove this is right in front of us. Either Russell or Kaepernick will be in the Super Bowl.

This is not like the wildcat. The wildcat was predicated on maximizing mediocre passers with their running ability. Wildcat packages were not around real QBs. These new young guns are for real.

These guys are terrific pocket passers with superior athleticism.

We are witnessing a shift in the NFL. NOT a fad.
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Offline doddpower  
#14 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 11:20:14 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Cal2GreenBay Go to Quoted Post
We are witnessing a shift in the NFL. NOT a fad.


As I said, I'll believe that when I see a substantial data set. Until then, this is nothing but conjecture on your part. Even if Kap or Russel Wilson wins the Super Bowl this season, it still won't prove much. It will take more than one Championship. My money is still on the Patriots, as there's not a QB left I'd trust more than Brady in the Super Bowl. Moreover, the success has as much or more to do with everyone around the QBs as it does the actual QBs themselves. The Seahawks and 49'ers have been amazing examples of all around team play, much more so than the traditional Brady, Peyton Manning, or even Aaron Rodgers led teams have been in the past. That's always been a great recipe for success, and is nothing new at all, especially the elite defense.

Offline Cal2GreenBay  
#15 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 11:22:26 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Cal2GreenBay Go to Quoted Post
Kaepernick is not a terrible passer like Vick is/was. Rg3 takes too many risks to injure himself but is also a good pocket passer.

My point was that Kap was not just a runner. Look at his QB rating. He was just as much a pocket passer as Aaron was tonight. Russell Wilson is also a good pocket passer too.

Their athleticism separates them from the current crop of pocket pass leaders, Brady, manning, and Rodgers.

My point is that Jim Harbaugh knew that if the niners played in the playoffs wih Alex smith, even with their better talent, they may not have won. They won because of the defense, oline, AND Kaepernicks ability to PASS and RUN more dynamically than Alex Smith.

The body of work to prove this is right in front of us. Either Russell or Kaepernick will be in the Super Bowl.

This is not like the wildcat. The wildcat was predicated on maximizing mediocre passers with their running ability. Wildcat packages were not around real QBs. These new young guns are for real.

These guys are terrific pocket passers with superior athleticism.

We are witnessing a shift in the NFL. NOT a fad.


You can't count on the mobile QBs getting injured to prove the traditional pocket passer is still the best way.
Kaepernick doesn't run like a running back and seek contact like Vick and Rg3. I saw more savvy than that,

Vick was never a cerebral QB and while his abilities suggested he could redefine the QB position. Ultimately he was more athlete than great QB.

Kap and Wilson are not like that. It's actualy pretty exciting to witness. I just am sad that it was at the expense of the packers. One of these new young pocket passing, althletic QBs, is going to redefine the QB position in the way Vick failed to do.

Stay tuned...we will just have to see.
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Offline Cal2GreenBay  
#16 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 11:26:24 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: doddpower Go to Quoted Post
As I said, I'll believe that when I see a substantial data set. Until then, this is nothing but conjecture on your part. Even if Kap or Russel Wilson wins the Super Bowl this season, it still won't prove much. It will take more than one Championship. My money is still on the Patriots, as there's not a QB left I'd trust more than Brady in the Super Bowl. Moreover, the success has as much or more to do with everyone around the QBs as it does the actual QBs themselves. The Seahawks and 49'ers have been amazing examples of all around team play, much more so than the traditional Brady, Peyton Manning, or even Aaron Rodgers led teams have been in the past. That's always been a great recipe for success, and is nothing new at all, especially the elite defense.



Point Taken. We will just have to see.
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Offline Bigbyfan  
#17 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2013 11:32:01 PM(UTC)
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This may be wishful thinking on my part, but I would love for us to cut AJ Hawk and sign Dannell Ellerbe from the Ravens. He is exactly the type of player we lack and have a need for. He is an enforcer who makes plays in the backfield and won't get pushed around. A combination of him and Bishop/Smith would do wonders for the middle of our defense.

This will never happen, but a man can dream.
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Offline blueleopard  
#18 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 2:26:12 AM(UTC)
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Michael Crabtree made Tramon Williams his bitch. That was so annoying.
Danreb Victorio A Believer of Greg Jennings
Offline buckeyepackfan  
#19 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:55:55 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Bigbyfan Go to Quoted Post
This may be wishful thinking on my part, but I would love for us to cut AJ Hawk and sign Dannell Ellerbe from the Ravens. He is exactly the type of player we lack and have a need for. He is an enforcer who makes plays in the backfield and won't get pushed around. A combination of him and Bishop/Smith would do wonders for the middle of our defense.

This will never happen, but a man can dream.


The problem with that is, Ted doesn't do trades and Bishop/Smith haven't been able to stay on the field.
D-line gets pushed around, ilb's are going to look bad because they can't get into position to make the plays.
Pickett getting nicked early in the game didn't help,I know he came back, but don't think he was very effective after getting hurt.


Enjoy the ride – It kicks and just keeps on kickin’. "Stats are for Losers"
Offline Cal2GreenBay  
#20 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 8:03:42 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan Go to Quoted Post
The problem with that is, Ted doesn't do trades and Bishop/Smith haven't been able to stay on the field.
D-line gets pushed around, ilb's are going to look bad because they can't get into position to make the plays.
Pickett getting nicked early in the game didn't help,I know he came back, but don't think he was very effective after getting hurt.




raji is heavy, ur is undersized against those massive niner lineman, same with picket.
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Offline musccy  
#21 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 8:06:22 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan Go to Quoted Post

D-line gets pushed around, ilb's are going to look bad because they can't get into position to make the plays.


This is what worries me. Raji has moments, but Pickett is going to be done soon, and the rest of our line depth chart is 4-3 DEs or stumpy underweight tackles. Jones and Walden proved to be a big liability, especially in this game, but with 3 lbs coming back next year I'm less worried about that position (sort of, maybe, I think?). I just don't know that this team has the athleticism, physicality, and beef in the front 3 that it needs to run an effective 3-4.
Offline Rockmolder  
#22 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 8:08:03 AM(UTC)
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How long ago was it that the Wildcat was going to take over the league and was the most unstoppable play ever seen by mankind? The thing Tebow would be perfect to run and change the way the NFL played offense?

We need to reload? We need better ILBs? We have to turn this whole defense around?....

There's no perfect team and the 49ers are no exception to that. Everyone's in quite the apocaliptic mood here. Every team has to improve every year. We drafted guys like Perry, Hayward, Worthy, Daniels, McMillian... These are all rookies. All guys who should progress from season one to two. Especially the pass rushers on that list.

We need better ILBs? How many teams are build deep enough to take two ILBs to injured reserve and still have that level of play from someone who's listed, and has only played, OLB?

There's enough talent being added. And we're certainly not over the hill on offense.

Was this a horrible showing? Yes. Have Capers defenses historically gone downhill and have they been figured out after his first two years as a DC? Yes. But we're not going to go 6-10 next year and we're not "rebuilding" or anything.

Having another body at nose tackle would be nice. Not having Walden on the field against an option passer would be nice. Having a new DC would be nice. We're not as far off as everyone here is making us out to be, though.
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TengoJuego on 1/14/2013(UTC)
Offline Rockmolder  
#23 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 8:18:13 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: musccy Go to Quoted Post
This is what worries me. Raji has moments, but Pickett is going to be done soon, and the rest of our line depth chart is 4-3 DEs or stumpy underweight tackles. Jones and Walden proved to be a big liability, especially in this game, but with 3 lbs coming back next year I'm less worried about that position (sort of, maybe, I think?). I just don't know that this team has the athleticism, physicality, and beef in the front 3 that it needs to run an effective 3-4.


The only potential 4-3 DE we have on our team is Nick Perry. Maybe Walden of Moses.

If you're referring to Neal, Wilson and Daniels... They're UT tweeners. There are enough DCs, including Capers, who like to have some movability and pass rushing ability from their 3-4 DEs.

I know what you're getting at, though. And having seen how Peterson ran all over us, how we got run over yesterday... I'd like another big body, as well. Worthy was a step in the right direction, as far as body type goes.

Where will we find one, though? Guys like that are expensive and don't hit FA very often. Maybe draft a guy like Kawann Short?
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Offline Cal2GreenBay  
#24 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 8:29:37 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Rockmolder Go to Quoted Post
How long ago was it that the Wildcat was going to take over the league and was the most unstoppable play ever seen by mankind? The thing Tebow would be perfect to run and change the way the NFL played offense?

We need to reload? We need better ILBs? We have to turn this whole defense around?....

There's no perfect team and the 49ers are no exception to that. Everyone's in quite the apocaliptic mood here. Every team has to improve every year. We drafted guys like Perry, Hayward, Worthy, Daniels, McMillian... These are all rookies. All guys who should progress from season one to two. Especially the pass rushers on that list.

We need better ILBs? How many teams are build deep enough to take two ILBs to injured reserve and still have that level of play from someone who's listed, and has only played, OLB?

There's enough talent being added. And we're certainly not over the hill on offense.

Was this a horrible showing? Yes. Have Capers defenses historically gone downhill and have they been figured out after his first two years as a DC? Yes. But we're not going to go 6-10 next year and we're not "rebuilding" or anything.

Having another body at nose tackle would be nice. Not having Walden on the field against an option passer would be nice. Having a new DC would be nice. We're not as far off as everyone here is making us out to be, though.


NFL dot com

"...Woodson admitted a need to learn and adjust
forward because this mold of quarterback -- Kaepernick, Robert Griffin III, Cam Newton, Russell Wilson -- is here to stay..."

This is not a fad. The wildcat was about running backs who might be able to throw.
This is a new type of quarterback that is not going away.

You think we are not far off. I am saying we will always be almost there until we address how to stop this new dynamic quarterback in the NFL. Not apocalyptic. Being realistic.
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Offline Cal2GreenBay  
#25 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 8:37:16 AM(UTC)
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Another way to look at this, is that in the early 90s the niners were a finesse, pass happy team and could pretty much out score the rest of the league. Then along came the Dallas cowboys with Troy Aikman and that massive offensive line who kicked their ass for 3 straight years.
The niners had to draft Bryant young and beef up their dlineman to compete. High priced FAs followed.
The 49ers had to sell out 12 years of salary cap hell afterward but that is neither here nor there.

The point is, the packers are no longer top dogs and will not be able to beat a more physical team without some real changes.
The Giants messed us up pretty good and the niners as well.

Add to that a dynamic new style QB on top of their superior physicality and you can see we are not far off. But we are not going to best them without change or RELOAD.

Also people who thought Tebow was the revolution were smoking something, He was always a project and still is.

Kaepernick is a real pocket passer who can flat out run. There's a difference.
We need to change with the times or always remain second tier, from now on.
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