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musccy  
#21 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 8:06:22 AM(UTC)
buckeyepackfan said: Go to Quoted Post

D-line gets pushed around, ilb's are going to look bad because they can't get into position to make the plays.


This is what worries me. Raji has moments, but Pickett is going to be done soon, and the rest of our line depth chart is 4-3 DEs or stumpy underweight tackles. Jones and Walden proved to be a big liability, especially in this game, but with 3 lbs coming back next year I'm less worried about that position (sort of, maybe, I think?). I just don't know that this team has the athleticism, physicality, and beef in the front 3 that it needs to run an effective 3-4.
Rockmolder  
#22 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 8:08:03 AM(UTC)
How long ago was it that the Wildcat was going to take over the league and was the most unstoppable play ever seen by mankind? The thing Tebow would be perfect to run and change the way the NFL played offense?

We need to reload? We need better ILBs? We have to turn this whole defense around?....

There's no perfect team and the 49ers are no exception to that. Everyone's in quite the apocaliptic mood here. Every team has to improve every year. We drafted guys like Perry, Hayward, Worthy, Daniels, McMillian... These are all rookies. All guys who should progress from season one to two. Especially the pass rushers on that list.

We need better ILBs? How many teams are build deep enough to take two ILBs to injured reserve and still have that level of play from someone who's listed, and has only played, OLB?

There's enough talent being added. And we're certainly not over the hill on offense.

Was this a horrible showing? Yes. Have Capers defenses historically gone downhill and have they been figured out after his first two years as a DC? Yes. But we're not going to go 6-10 next year and we're not "rebuilding" or anything.

Having another body at nose tackle would be nice. Not having Walden on the field against an option passer would be nice. Having a new DC would be nice. We're not as far off as everyone here is making us out to be, though.
Rockmolder  
#23 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 8:18:13 AM(UTC)
musccy said: Go to Quoted Post
This is what worries me. Raji has moments, but Pickett is going to be done soon, and the rest of our line depth chart is 4-3 DEs or stumpy underweight tackles. Jones and Walden proved to be a big liability, especially in this game, but with 3 lbs coming back next year I'm less worried about that position (sort of, maybe, I think?). I just don't know that this team has the athleticism, physicality, and beef in the front 3 that it needs to run an effective 3-4.


The only potential 4-3 DE we have on our team is Nick Perry. Maybe Walden of Moses.

If you're referring to Neal, Wilson and Daniels... They're UT tweeners. There are enough DCs, including Capers, who like to have some movability and pass rushing ability from their 3-4 DEs.

I know what you're getting at, though. And having seen how Peterson ran all over us, how we got run over yesterday... I'd like another big body, as well. Worthy was a step in the right direction, as far as body type goes.

Where will we find one, though? Guys like that are expensive and don't hit FA very often. Maybe draft a guy like Kawann Short?
Cal2GreenBay  
#24 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 8:29:37 AM(UTC)
Rockmolder said: Go to Quoted Post
How long ago was it that the Wildcat was going to take over the league and was the most unstoppable play ever seen by mankind? The thing Tebow would be perfect to run and change the way the NFL played offense?

We need to reload? We need better ILBs? We have to turn this whole defense around?....

There's no perfect team and the 49ers are no exception to that. Everyone's in quite the apocaliptic mood here. Every team has to improve every year. We drafted guys like Perry, Hayward, Worthy, Daniels, McMillian... These are all rookies. All guys who should progress from season one to two. Especially the pass rushers on that list.

We need better ILBs? How many teams are build deep enough to take two ILBs to injured reserve and still have that level of play from someone who's listed, and has only played, OLB?

There's enough talent being added. And we're certainly not over the hill on offense.

Was this a horrible showing? Yes. Have Capers defenses historically gone downhill and have they been figured out after his first two years as a DC? Yes. But we're not going to go 6-10 next year and we're not "rebuilding" or anything.

Having another body at nose tackle would be nice. Not having Walden on the field against an option passer would be nice. Having a new DC would be nice. We're not as far off as everyone here is making us out to be, though.


NFL dot com

"...Woodson admitted a need to learn and adjust
forward because this mold of quarterback -- Kaepernick, Robert Griffin III, Cam Newton, Russell Wilson -- is here to stay..."

This is not a fad. The wildcat was about running backs who might be able to throw.
This is a new type of quarterback that is not going away.

You think we are not far off. I am saying we will always be almost there until we address how to stop this new dynamic quarterback in the NFL. Not apocalyptic. Being realistic.
Cal2GreenBay  
#25 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 8:37:16 AM(UTC)
Another way to look at this, is that in the early 90s the niners were a finesse, pass happy team and could pretty much out score the rest of the league. Then along came the Dallas cowboys with Troy Aikman and that massive offensive line who kicked their ass for 3 straight years.
The niners had to draft Bryant young and beef up their dlineman to compete. High priced FAs followed.
The 49ers had to sell out 12 years of salary cap hell afterward but that is neither here nor there.

The point is, the packers are no longer top dogs and will not be able to beat a more physical team without some real changes.
The Giants messed us up pretty good and the niners as well.

Add to that a dynamic new style QB on top of their superior physicality and you can see we are not far off. But we are not going to best them without change or RELOAD.

Also people who thought Tebow was the revolution were smoking something, He was always a project and still is.

Kaepernick is a real pocket passer who can flat out run. There's a difference.
We need to change with the times or always remain second tier, from now on.
Rockmolder  
#26 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 8:41:49 AM(UTC)
Cal2GreenBay said: Go to Quoted Post
NFL dot com

"...Woodson admitted a need to learn and adjust
forward because this mold of quarterback -- Kaepernick, Robert Griffin III, Cam Newton, Russell Wilson -- is here to stay..."

This is not a fad. The wildcat was about running backs who might be able to throw.
This is a new type of quarterback that is not going away.

You think we are not far off. I am saying we will always be almost there until we address how to stop this new dynamic quarterback in the NFL. Not apocalyptic. Being realistic.


It's not going away. And neither is the Wildcat. Thing is, it won't be this effective for that long, either. Of course you need to adjust to this, but everyone's acting like it'd be impossible to remain competetive with our defense, because somehow we could never be able to stop this kind of offense.

The WCO couldn't be stopped, the run and shoot couldn't be stopped, the Wildcat couldn't be stopped and most of those offense could, at the very least, be slowed down eventually.

Having a mobile quarterback and an offense with some option elements is nice, but I don't know if it's the holy grail that everyone seems to think it is right now. Let's see what happens when teams starting to play a bit more contrain. Get these guys figured out a bit, just like defenses figured out Vick again after his amazing 2010 season in Philly.
K_Buz  
#27 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 8:45:39 AM(UTC)
I guess I don't understand this whole read-option fad. The wishbone isn't used as an offense because it is too easily defended in the NFL. What makes this different? We have had these types of QB's in the past as well...McNabb, McNair, Vick, Newton. They come in the league, have a impact first year and their running numbers decline. Then the hits start taking their toll and they realize that they have to become more pocket passers. NFL defenses will figure this out sooner rather than later.
musccy  
#28 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 8:46:48 AM(UTC)
Rockmolder said: Go to Quoted Post
It's not going away. And neither is the Wildcat. Thing is, it won't be this effective for that long, either. Of course you need to adjust to this, but everyone's acting like it'd be impossible to remain competetive with our defense, because somehow we could never be able to stop this kind of offense.

The WCO couldn't be stopped, the run and shoot couldn't be stopped, the Wildcat couldn't be stopped and most of those offense could, at the very least, be slowed down eventually.

Having a mobile quarterback and an offense with some option elements is nice, but I don't know if it's the holy grail that everyone seems to think it is right now. Let's see what happens when teams starting to play a bit more contrain. Get these guys figured out a bit, just like defenses figured out Vick again after his amazing 2010 season in Philly.


Although I agree with the basic premise, comparing vick to rg3, wilson, or kapernick isn't the same. Vick has never been accurate, and I feel like kapernick is closest to vick with respect to accuracy and he still gashed the living hell out of the Pack.

If you're accurate and fast as hell, you'll be hard to contend with no matter what.
Cal2GreenBay  
#29 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 8:47:06 AM(UTC)
Rockmolder said: Go to Quoted Post
It's not going away. And neither is the Wildcat. Thing is, it won't be this effective for that long, either. Of course you need to adjust to this, but everyone's acting like it'd be impossible to remain competetive with our defense, because somehow we could never be able to stop this kind of offense.

The WCO couldn't be stopped, the run and shoot couldn't be stopped, the Wildcat couldn't be stopped and most of those offense could, at the very least, be slowed down eventually.

Having a mobile quarterback and an offense with some option elements is nice, but I don't know if it's the holy grail that everyone seems to think it is right now. Let's see what happens when teams starting to play a bit more contrain. Get these guys figured out a bit, just like defenses figured out Vick again after his amazing 2010 season in Philly.


Vick is and was a horrible QB. Vick was supposed to be the guy to redefine the NFL position, but he was never a cerebral one. Watch Russell Wilson, Kaepernick and rg3. They are different than Vick and cleary more cerebral with almost as much athleticism.

The point is dual. Not just the new dynamic pocket passing QB, but the team was physically dominant against the packers like the cowboys were to the niners in the 90s.
We will always lose as a finesse team against a powerful line like that.

Gameplan against that all you want, but they will keep winning until this team gets stronger,
Woodson said that too,
Rockmolder  
#30 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 8:53:46 AM(UTC)
musccy said: Go to Quoted Post
Although I agree with the basic premise, comparing vick to rg3, wilson, or kapernick isn't the same. Vick has never been accurate, and I feel like kapernick is closest to vick with respect to accuracy and he still gashed the living hell out of the Pack.

If you're accurate and fast as hell, you'll be hard to contend with no matter what.


Obviously, you're right.

I'm not trying to say that Vick = RG3/Wilsom. I'm trying to say that, defenses can figure this thing out.

Everyone knew that the 49ers were building quite the offensive line under Singletary and it's paying dividends now. And like I said, we need a big body player to complement our D-line.

It's just that, everyone's acting like this isn't stoppable. Like we're behind for having a QB who's not a 4.4 guy. QBs who can run and pass are not a fad, they're ridiculous weapons. The option, however, is a fad. And one that should get figured out sooner, rather than later.

Capers tried to do something by playing his psycho package which he hasn't used a whole lot throughout the season, but it didn't help. Players lost contain, the secondary didn't cover. It was just a mess.

I'm convinced, though, that a package that contrains two TEs, a FB, a RB and one WR is a package you can stop in this day and age. Especially when you manage to get a quick lead on the 49ers.
Cal2GreenBay  
#31 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 8:53:47 AM(UTC)
K_Buz said: Go to Quoted Post
I guess I don't understand this whole read-option fad. The wishbone isn't used as an offense because it is too easily defended in the NFL. What makes this different? We have had these types of QB's in the past as well...McNabb, McNair, Vick, Newton. They come in the league, have a impact first year and their running numbers decline. Then the hits start taking their toll and they realize that they have to become more pocket passers. NFL defenses will figure this out sooner rather than later.


You can't generalize that easily.
McNabb was also not a cerebral QB. same for McNair.
newton is not the past. he has the physical tools, just am not convinced on the smarts.

Wilson, Kaepernick and rg3 are different,
Call it a fad all you want, but using that rationale over and over again in this new context is antiquated,

Kaep and Wilson don't look to run first. They look to pass first. And unlike rg3, they don't run and seek contact for extra yards and Risk getting hurt.
They are all cerebral quarterbacks and are different than what we've seen before.

The proof is in front of us,
buckeyepackfan  
#32 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 8:58:38 AM(UTC)
The list of players I fill will not be back next year:
25 Grant, Ryan RB
50 Hawk, A.J. LB
85 Jennings, Greg WR
79 Pickett, Ryan DT
80 Driver, Donald WR
63 Saturday, Jeff C
21 Woodson, Charles DB
88 Finley, Jermichael TE
44 Starks, James RB
32 Benson, Cedric RB

This will once again leave the Packers with little veteran leadership.
(offense)Aaron Rodgers 8yrs,
(defense)Tramon Williams 6yrs
(spc teams)Jarret Bush 7yrs

Packers will be very raw at RB, but Harris,Green, and Brandon Saine(off ir) will be a solid start.

I'm betting Ted gets a RB in 1st or 2rnd of draft.
(you draft guys,any studds available this year)?

O-line, these guys just need to get and stay healthy.
Saturday was a mistake last year, but IMHO with the guys currently on the roster and guys coming off IR, unless there is a superstud available, Ted will once again wait for later rnds to address O-line.

Packers have plenty of talent a LB positions, if they can just get and stay healthy.

Signing Clay is a must,the rest will fall into place.

Just a start, plenty of other positions need to be adressed, just my .02 on these positions.
yooperfan  
#33 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 9:03:43 AM(UTC)
Ted better get busy trading down for more 6th and 7th round picks to fill all those positions.
Oh yeah and a few street signings to fill out the roster will help I'm sure.
Zero2Cool  
#34 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 9:27:58 AM(UTC)
yooperfan said: Go to Quoted Post
Ted better get busy trading down for more 6th and 7th round picks to fill all those positions.
Oh yeah and a few street signings to fill out the roster will help I'm sure.


When was the last time this happened? 2007 when the team was watered down?

buckeyepackfan said: Go to Quoted Post
The list of players I fill will not be back next year:
25 Grant, Ryan RB
50 Hawk, A.J. LB
85 Jennings, Greg WR
79 Pickett, Ryan DT
80 Driver, Donald WR
63 Saturday, Jeff C
21 Woodson, Charles DB
88 Finley, Jermichael TE
44 Starks, James RB
32 Benson, Cedric RB




Hawk, Pickett, Woodson, Finley and Starks I think will all be back, including Benson.
Grant, Jennings (signs elsewhere), Driver, Saturday will probably retire.
musccy  
#35 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 9:50:23 AM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
When was the last time this happened? 2007 when the team was watered down?





Hawk, Pickett, Woodson, Finley and Starks I think will all be back, including Benson.
Grant, Jennings (signs elsewhere), Driver, Saturday will probably retire.


Woodson may have to restructure sooner than later. Too lazy to look but I think his cap # is nearing 10 million next year, otherwise I agree. Hawk is under contract still and is a serviceable option.
User is suspended until 5/28/2018 11:54:40 AM(UTC) DakotaT  
#36 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 9:56:45 AM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
When was the last time this happened? 2007 when the team was watered down?

Hawk, Pickett, Woodson, Finley and Starks I think will all be back, including Benson.
Grant, Jennings (signs elsewhere), Driver, Saturday will probably retire.


I think Ted did that for a couple years out of pure necessity. I don't recall if cutting Hawk would be a cap saving move next year or not, but if it is, he can be replaced by Brad Jones right now - or maybe the Manning kid steps up next year. I agree on Pickett and Finley and hope they Franchise Tag Jennings. Woodson isn't worth his cap number next year, so we might be back to the young guys at safety.
Cal2GreenBay  
#37 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 10:09:17 AM(UTC)
DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
I think Ted did that for a couple years out of pure necessity. I don't recall if cutting Hawk would be a cap saving move next year or not, but if it is, he can be replaced by Brad Jones right now - or maybe the Manning kid steps up next year. I agree on Pickett and Finley and hope they Franchise Tag Jennings. Woodson isn't worth his cap number next year, so we might be back to the young guys at safety.


Also, Aaron is up for a contract extension. If he gets one of those plus hundred million dollar contracts, then expect the ability to retool to be limited. It will resemble Favres prime years where it's all QB and less TEAM
User is suspended until 5/28/2018 11:54:40 AM(UTC) DakotaT  
#38 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 10:23:05 AM(UTC)
Cal2GreenBay said: Go to Quoted Post
Also, Aaron is up for a contract extension. If he gets one of those plus hundred million dollar contracts, then expect the ability to retool to be limited. It will resemble Favres prime years where it's all QB and less TEAM


Back then we suffered from an out of control cap situation that Ron Wolf got us into, getting us to two Super Bowls using free agency, and then was succeded by a clueless GM. Aaron has two years left on his contract, and I haven't heard anything about the extension except for fan speculation. I have never heard any squawking out of Rodgers either, but he should be the highest paid QB in the league right now. It's pretty tough to keep being a contender year after year, and that's what I prefer - so maybe we are over-reacting to our ass kicking last night just a little. I still say having Bishop, Perry, and Worthy in there would have made a difference.
play2win  
#39 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 10:49:30 AM(UTC)
We need to reload or retool?

Seems to me our defense is as abominable as it was all of 2011. So, that's 2 years of ineptitude. We may have been better statistically this year, and we may have sustained some injuries. All teams do. But, we don't look like we even belong on the same field with real contenders.

I think we need to switch out our philosophies both on O and D, as well as much of our personnel.

Go back to a 4-3 D. Maybe change coordinators. Maybe not. McCarthy cannot sit there throwing all game either. We lost every game this year where we did not run 20+ times by our RBs. Without looking it up, I would guess we won every game where we rushed 20-25 attempts. WHAT does this Head Coach not see?

We need OL and DL. We need to face facts that Hawk is slow, and a liability in the passing game. Woodson is also too slow. Walden is not the answer. He only shows up occasionally. Finley is a liability in the run game, a run game we OBVIOUSLY need to be employing. Jennings lost a step. Ty Williams has regressed. Pickett was our best DL this year. We have no one behind the aging vet to give him a rest. Again, two years running. Our DL has been laughable in its lack of game impact, especially against the better teams I the NFL. Much of that I blame on McCarthy's pass happy philosophies on O that continually fail to extend drives and chew up clock. He wears his own D out time and time again.

If Ted is going to keep Rodgers in the Green & Gold, he better insist on more effective protection and more emphasis on the run to protect him. And, he better get the right personnel to make that happen.

Retool across the board.
buckeyepackfan  
#40 Posted : Sunday, January 13, 2013 10:54:15 AM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
When was the last time this happened? 2007 when the team was watered down?





Hawk, Pickett, Woodson, Finley and Starks I think will all be back, including Benson.
Grant, Jennings (signs elsewhere), Driver, Saturday will probably retire.


Gonna agree with you Zero

I guess I should have looked a little closer before I posted. I was thinking Finley and Mathews were Fa's after 2012 and Ted was going to have to free up a lot of $.

Woody has already said he is open to re-negotiate his contract, that would probably open enough cap space to either tag or sign Jennings.
Hawk could probably do the same to free up more $.

The other fa's in the list below that IMHO need to be addresed are EDS,Sam Shields and Brad Jones.

Greg Jennings(tag or sign)

Need to sign, don't let go
Brad Jones
Evan Dietrich Smith
Sam Shields

Frank Zombo(gone via FA)
Eric Walden(gone via FA)
Robert Francois(gone via FA)

Tom Crabtree(will re-sign)
DuJuan Harris(will re-sign)
Jeremy Ross(will re-sign)
Jarret Boykin(will re-sign)


Donald Driver(retires)
Ryan Grant(not resigned)

Not as bad as I 1st thought, Mathews and Rodgers can wait another year, neither has expressed a desire to have their contract re-negotiated.
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