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Offline Porforis  
#101 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 4:12:49 PM(UTC)
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I think a sour ending has soured our view of many people. During the season, the only coaching-related complaints I heard were at McCarthy for not running enough slants and screens, campen for O line issues. Now, people are questioning Ted Thompson for not drafting big enough defenders, McCarthy's killer instinct, Capers for not adapting well enough, etc. While there's a lot of truth to the complaints, a lot of this is just frustration from this ugly, ugly defeat. There's problems that NEED to be fixed, but the only coaching change I really think might work is if we get rid of Capers for a very good D coordinator that would be willing to run a similar scheme. And I don't think that person exists. Beyond that, let Ted keep drafting (he got a lot of good picks this last draft, sadly several got hurt) and tattoo "Slant!" under one of McCarthy's eyelids, "Run!" under the other and I think we're in good shape.
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Offline Cheesey  
#102 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 4:26:26 PM(UTC)
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What happened to the WR going across the middle? Driver always did that, and made some big gains. I don't know why they stopped doing that. It kept the D off of Rodgers, as he would get the ball out fast.
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Offline play2win  
#103 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 5:20:20 PM(UTC)
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I didn't hear it, but my wife was listening to LeRoy Butler today, and he said after reviewing the film that Capers should be fired. Said SF ran nothing new, and that our defense was really unprepared and made no adjustments at the half.

I hold Butler's opinion in very high regard. Would love to see LeRoy take over as DC!
Offline RajiRoar  
#104 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 5:21:18 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
For those saying or thinking that we should let Capers go and move back to 4-3. Main question. Can Clay play MLB? Because he is not going to be a DE in the 4-3.



We could run that funky 4-3, 3-4 hybrid that Seattle runs. It's what clay ran in college.

And if Cullen Jenkins gets cut, he would be the PERFECT DE in the scheme (he has exp as a 4-3 end with us), like Red Bryant.

Problem is, outside of Pete Carroll and Gus Bradly (who is up for HC gigs) I don't know anyone who has exp with the system.

... A guy can dream...


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Dec, 11, 2012 - FOREVER!
Offline doddpower  
#105 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 5:42:58 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
For those saying or thinking that we should let Capers go and move back to 4-3. Main question. Can Clay play MLB? Because he is not going to be a DE in the 4-3.



Yeah, if you read my earlier longer post, I stated that CM3 would be the main wildcard in a switch to a 4-3. Other than that, I think the Packers personnel is much better suited for a 4-3. Perhaps CM3 alone would make the argument to stay with a 3-4, I don't know. I assume he would be an OLB on some plays, and rushing the passer on others. It would take some creativity. Nick Perry is much better suited as a 4-3 DE, and he is almost identical to CM3 in size, with the exception of weighing ~10 more lbs (which who knows how accurate weights ever are). Shea McClellin, 4-3 defensive end drafted by the Bears in the 1st round last year, is basically the same size as both CM3 and Perry, and he had a nice season (although he was mostly projected as a 3-4 OLB). Ositadimma "Osi" Umenyiora is 6'3 and 255 lbs as well according to Wikipedia, although it appears as if he's bigger, and I don't think many would argue that he fits the mold of a 4-3 DE fairly well.

The point is, it would take some creativity by the defensive coordinator, but I would think the flexibility of moving CM3 around could work to the defenses advantage, honestly. I don't really buy into the argument that it's impossible for CM3 to be a DE in a 4-3 system. He basically does the same thing on passing downs already, and the minority of base package calls would just require some creativity.
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#106 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 5:47:25 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
It really is amazing to me how poorly we are equipped to play the 3-4 defense, and how much better equipped we currently are to play a 4-3 as things stand today. Capers has made some really poor calls with our defense, and especially so when it mattered most over these past two seasons. He was the DC for the worst defense in NFL history.

In his defense, I will say Ted Thompson didn't get the job completely finished when it came to the personnel he has had to work with. Yes, we drafted 6 on his side of the ball last year. However, there was just so much more to do. A GM cannot continually count on first year players to turn one segment or group around. That is what he did with our pass rush, and he failed to adjust after losing his prize piece, Perry, for the season in week 4. He should have signed some insurance opposite Matthews, especially knowing that area of his defense is what hurt the secondary most the previous year.

We should make the switch to the 4-3, like, pronto!

Perry should flourish at DE. Make Matthews your WSLB, the playmaker. Hawk, opposite at SSLB with Bish in the middle. If Hawk proves unable to work out there as a starter, then we'll have a very high priced, experienced backup - but I think he'd be fine with this switch, maybe better. Draft another DE or two, and a good backup NT and we should be set.

If I were Ted, I would load up on both lines this draft, and allow for either a premiere WR or LB talent to be an early choice weighed against the line talent available should one fall.

3-4 defenses call for bigger players than we have, and faster players who are better in coverage as well. To me, Perry is no sure thing as a pass rushing LB in a 3-4 with the coverage responsibilities. Pickett won't last forever, especially if this staff refuses to get the players here for a reasonable rotation. Raji has no backup. None. And, what do we really have at DE?

3 years after winning SB XLV, maybe we will get a pass rush and a more stout defense. Switching to a 4-3 could really help. Can Capers do that effectively? Probably. Then again, maybe not. But, whoever's responsibility this winds up being is going to need more than what Ted gave Capers in 2011 and 2012.


3-4 does not necessarily call for bigger players. Just look at the 2 most known 3-4 teams. Bal and Pit. Both have had success with it for a long time. Pitt has one big guy in the middle and DE's that are both sub 300 where Bal has 300+ with two 330+. Their LBers are also smaller across the board compared to Baltimore.

It is a matter of the players making plays. Ours up front don't do that consistenlty. We had a high number of Sacks, but it seemed like when we didn't get a sack, we didn't get pressure.
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Online Zero2Cool  
#107 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 5:47:38 PM(UTC)
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Scoring Defense
  • 2012 11th
  • 2011 19th
  • 2010 2nd
  • 2009 7th


Defensive Passer Rating
  • 2012 4th
  • 2011 10th
  • 2010 1st
  • 2009 4th
"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." - Nikola Tesla

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Offline wpr  
#108 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 6:23:16 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
I didn't hear it, but my wife was listening to LeRoy Butler today, and he said after reviewing the film that Capers should be fired. Said SF ran nothing new, and that our defense was really unprepared and made no adjustments at the half.

I hold Butler's opinion in very high regard. Would love to see LeRoy take over as DC!


you just stuck a dagger into the cheesemiester's heart.
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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#109 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 7:32:32 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
I didn't hear it, but my wife was listening to LeRoy Butler today, and he said after reviewing the film that Capers should be fired. Said SF ran nothing new, and that our defense was really unprepared and made no adjustments at the half.

I hold Butler's opinion in very high regard. Would love to see LeRoy take over as DC!


Is pretty easy to sit back and say, when your balls are not on the line. I would like to hear what he had to say. What adjustments he thinks would have done something? I've heard terrible analysis from LeRoy along with good.
The world needs ditch diggers to Danny!!!
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Offline Porforis  
#110 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 8:46:04 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
Is pretty easy to sit back and say, when your balls are not on the line. I would like to hear what he had to say. What adjustments he thinks would have done something? I've heard terrible analysis from LeRoy along with good.


While I would also like to see more details and suggestions and don't think Butler would necessarily make a good coach, it is pretty obvious no significant adjustments were made during the game. Whether anybody else would have done any better with or without adjustments, is a lot harder to say.
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Offline play2win  
#111 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 9:22:29 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
Scoring Defense
  • 2012 11th
  • 2011 19th
  • 2010 2nd
  • 2009 7th


Defensive Passer Rating
  • 2012 4th
  • 2011 10th
  • 2010 1st
  • 2009 4th


Yes, our defense improved overall statistically over the course of the season. There were some select games though where they looked abysmal. Gave away way too many yds and at times in all-time record breaking numbers. When we were bad, we were really, really bad. We must change this if we are expecting to compete with SF, SEA, NYG, MIN and the like. Personnel, scheme, coaching on both sides of the ball. McCarthy hung his own defense out to dry in nearly every loss by failing to run. The team and its philosophy must change.

Offline dfosterf  
#112 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 9:27:54 PM(UTC)
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Everyone has too much job security in coaching and management of the Green Bay Packers.

We have no owner to get pissed and start firing mother-fu%kers.

It has its pluses and minuses. These bastards are getting too comfy, for my tastes. but as long as our fellow fans keep pumping the money into the organization, change will be very slow.

I want Dom gone now, for example. That may not be wise, it may be, but it isn't happening, imo.


At least under this structure they give me plenty to bitch about, so there is that...

Love
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Offline doddpower  
#113 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 9:35:29 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dfosterf Go to Quoted Post
At least under this structure they give me plenty to bitch about, so there is that...

Love


And I'm sure you struggle to find things to bitch about . . . Wanna Box? Wanna Box?

Offline rabidgopher04  
#114 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 10:35:31 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dfosterf Go to Quoted Post
Everyone has too much job security in coaching and management of the Green Bay Packers.

We have no owner to get pissed and start firing mother-fu%kers.

It has its pluses and minuses. These bastards are getting too comfy, for my tastes. but as long as our fellow fans keep pumping the money into the organization, change will be very slow.

I want Dom gone now, for example. That may not be wise, it may be, but it isn't happening, imo.


At least under this structure they give me plenty to bitch about, so there is that...

Love


I keep checking this site and others waiting for the headline that the Packers have fired Dom Capers. I just think it's time to do something a little different to take this defense to the next level.
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Offline play2win  
#115 Posted : Tuesday, January 15, 2013 5:45:24 AM(UTC)
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If Capers is fired, I wouldn't expect it to happen for at least another week.
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#116 Posted : Tuesday, January 15, 2013 6:59:05 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Porforis Go to Quoted Post
While I would also like to see more details and suggestions and don't think Butler would necessarily make a good coach, it is pretty obvious no significant adjustments were made during the game. Whether anybody else would have done any better with or without adjustments, is a lot harder to say.


That is really the thing. I can say, yeah he should have made adjustements, I could even say what, bring the LBers up and stop kapernick from running. Sounds good. But then, what would have been the result. Most of his runs were not designed runs, they were scrambles. So we bring the Lbers or Safeties up, and open up the passing game.

really the only thing that could ahve made a difference is pass rush discipline.
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Offline Yerko  
#117 Posted : Tuesday, January 15, 2013 9:26:32 AM(UTC)
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When a player like Woodson is openly making comments about not making changes, there is an obvious issue at hand. If Dom Capers is the DC next season, we are going to see the same results again. I won't take away what he did with the defense in 2010...but that is 2010.

Too many times, we are sitting here watching the defense get blown up without any modifications made in-game. As a DC, he should be making changes to prevent the team from doing what they do best.

Green Bay should take a chance and get rid of Dom.
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Offline Packers_Finland  
#118 Posted : Tuesday, January 15, 2013 10:40:23 AM(UTC)
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Looking at his track record with the defense, I wouldn't be so quick to throw Capers out the door. But seeing how frustratingly bad his lack of adjustments some times is, and how some specific opponents have been able to walk all over us lately, I, too, think it's time to let him go.

I think James Campen should leave first though. How many early picks have we given him, and our OL still pretty much sucks with the exception of Josh Sitton?
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Offline Wade  
#119 Posted : Tuesday, January 15, 2013 3:30:40 PM(UTC)
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I am *not* calling for Dom's head.

*If* he is replaced, however, I would *not* want LeRoy Butler as DC. I don't want a coordinator who has never coached.

On the other hand, I would prefer to have as DC someone who is more of an unknown (to us). I want the *next* great Defense. I don't want someone who is "from the XYZ defensive coaching tree."

But I do want someone with a database of experience _as a coach_ to draw upon. Butler, IMO, does not have that. I want someone who has the experience but has used the experience to "think of something new".
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
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Offline Wade  
#120 Posted : Tuesday, January 15, 2013 3:35:14 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Packers_Finland Go to Quoted Post
Looking at his track record with the defense, I wouldn't be so quick to throw Capers out the door. But seeing how frustratingly bad his lack of adjustments some times is, and how some specific opponents have been able to walk all over us lately, I, too, think it's time to let him go.

I think James Campen should leave first though. How many early picks have we given him, and our OL still pretty much sucks with the exception of Josh Sitton?



I dunno. How do we know that the problem hasn't been Campen but the personnel department (scouts, etc.) who haven't identified the right talent? Maybe with the exception of Sitton, Campen simply has been given average/below-average pro talent to work with? How many failed Packer linemen have gone on to notable improvement post-GB?


And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Offline doddpower  
#121 Posted : Tuesday, January 15, 2013 3:55:33 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Wade Go to Quoted Post
I dunno. How do we know that the problem hasn't been Campen but the personnel department (scouts, etc.) who haven't identified the right talent? Maybe with the exception of Sitton, Campen simply has been given average/below-average pro talent to work with? How many failed Packer linemen have gone on to notable improvement post-GB?




There is no way to properly quantify this. But He's been given some nice talent, undoubtedly, imo, especially with guys like Bulaga, who has really struggled being consistent. And then there's the whole flipping players between positions too much, such as Sherrod at guard, when it was always pretty obvious he was a tackle. I think the biggest thing has been the consistency of the offensive line. Sometimes they play great, others, very bad.
Offline Wade  
#122 Posted : Tuesday, January 15, 2013 4:27:26 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: doddpower Go to Quoted Post
There is no way to properly quantify this. But He's been given some nice talent, undoubtedly, imo, especially with guys like Bulaga, who has really struggled being consistent. And then there's the whole flipping players between positions too much, such as Sherrod at guard, when it was always pretty obvious he was a tackle. I think the biggest thing has been the consistency of the offensive line. Sometimes they play great, others, very bad.


Is Campen the one responsible for the "flipping approach"? Or is that McCarthy? (I ask because I don't know...who makes those recommendations/decisions, head coach, coordinator, or position coach?
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Online Zero2Cool  
#123 Posted : Tuesday, January 15, 2013 5:17:14 PM(UTC)
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Kevin Greene wrote:
Does a fat baby fart? Big time. Absolutely. No doubt about it. He's the same guy that took a defense from No. 24 to No. 5, or No. 2, then the Super Bowl year we're No. 5. He's the same guy. This is the same system. I mean, yeah, Dom is without a doubt the right guy. I think that's about it there.


Anyone see the problem with this?
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Offline SINCITYCHEEZE  
#124 Posted : Tuesday, January 15, 2013 5:32:49 PM(UTC)
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http://www.beloitdailyne...2-9a42-0019bb2963f4.html

Here is a compelling argument for getting rid of Capers.It's from my hometown paper in Beloit.This guy has been the sports editor there for years.
Wisconsin Born, Packer Bred
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Offline rabidgopher04  
#125 Posted : Tuesday, January 15, 2013 8:09:51 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
Anyone see the problem with this?


Skinny babies fart too.
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