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Offline QCHuskerFan  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, January 15, 2013 1:14:07 PM(UTC)

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I know most are saying we don't have $ to sign Jennings. But what if we dumped Tramon and used that money to sign Jennings? I haven't researched it recently, but both are high dollar players. Right now, Jennings is more valuable to me. Tramon had a fabulous SB year but that was 2 years ago. He was hurt and bad last year. He had some really bad games this year and I have more faith in Shields/ House/ Hayward than I do in Tramon.

Yes, I know Jennings had some injury issues this year. But I am really tired of watching Tramon play bullfighter when asked to make a tackle. I see Jennings as offering more to the team than Tramon.

Thoughts?
Offline Pack93z  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, January 15, 2013 1:21:24 PM(UTC)

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My opinion -

We would be better off letting Woodson walk/retire than cutting Williams and the 2.4M Cap hit to do so. Not to mention, CB's are still a premium in this league and Tramon can cover just about anyone in the league.

No.. Tramon means more to the team than Jennings does. Plus, all the tea leaves suggest that Jennings wants a huge payday and that isn't coming in Green Bay.
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Zero2Cool on 1/15/2013(UTC)
Online Zero2Cool  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, January 15, 2013 2:05:30 PM(UTC)

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Yeah, if they need to save money, restructure the $6.5 million salary for Charles Woodson and do something with his $2.5 million bonus too. Tramon Williams is needed more than Woodson. I'm not sure if Greg Jennings is needed more than Woodson though.
Offline Porforis  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, January 15, 2013 3:37:24 PM(UTC)

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My only thought on the subject is that I frequently saw Tramon's man getting receptions all season long. Granted, he was much more likely to be covering top-tier receiving talent and there weren't hardly any bombs given up, but still...
Offline GermanGilbert  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, January 15, 2013 4:59:21 PM(UTC)

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I'm a bit biased, 'cause I'm a Williams homie, but I'd keep Tramon over Jennings/Woodson as well. Yes, he had better seasons than this one and yes, he had tackling issues. But he was pretty much always lined up against the #1 guy of the opposing team, and not only on rare occasions one-on-one. The guy played let alone 4 games against Brandon Marshall and Calvin Johnson, which both are another talent level than the #2 and #3 guys of the Bears and Lions are.
Online PackFanWithTwins  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, January 15, 2013 6:26:04 PM(UTC)

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Couple things, Tramon was not nearly bad in coverage or tackling than being made out. If it wasn't for one play against MN and Aikman being a dipshit, it wouldn't be talked about. He was saying, how Tramon didnt' even try to make the tackle when the next replay from the reverse showed that he was blocked by the FB.

My question before I would think about any of the options is. How much is Jennings worth contract wise? How much more is he worth over Nelson or Jones? Them combined average 4mil next year against the gap. I don't think with the offense today, along with Cobb, that Jennings is twice the value of either Jones or Nelson. If he wants more than 6 or 7 a year, let him go, he is not worth the price with the group we have.

Shields has come into his own, and Hayward and house both have shown promise, but I am not ready to turn the coverage over to them. Look how bad the secondary got last year, with Williams hurt. When you take somebody like Tramon away, the impact is felth across the board in teh secondary.
Offline QCHuskerFan  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, January 16, 2013 8:38:33 AM(UTC)

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Did the defense get better this year because Williams got healthy or because we got some good young blood and saw some major improvement from Shields?

If we assume that Jennings is gone and Woodson will have his deal reworked, Tramon is going to go into 2013 as the #2 player salary. Does that seem commensurate with his value? House, Shields and Hayward combined to make less than 2M this year. Tramon made almost 8M. He is not worth 4 times what the other 3 make. But we know salaries aren't always fair.

Thompson has shown that he can walk away from players that may have a year or so left. Maybe Tramon is the next one.
Offline Yerko  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, January 16, 2013 11:32:21 AM(UTC)

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I think someone saying let go of Tramon should ask themselves this...

Would you like Shields, House or Hayward to cover Calvin Johnson and Brandon Marshall two times each? Personally, I wouldn't. Tramon has had an off year, that is for sure. However, I don't see dumping him as a solution. He is terrible at tackling but there are plenty of cornerbacks in this league that are average to below average at tackling a guy like Adrian Peterson. Tramon's coverage skills are supreme compared to the current cornerbacks we have and losing him would make a dent in that part of our defense.

If Hayward was in his 2nd or 3rd year and still having the same success, I think this is debatable. Losing Tramon now would not do our defense any favors.
Offline QCHuskerFan  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, January 16, 2013 3:52:48 PM(UTC)

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Tramon has had 2 off years, in my opinion. Last year was chalked up to injury. Maybe he has had something nagging this year also. But the point I am making is the #2 man in salary is coming off 2 down years and will be another year older in a young man's game next year.

Just a thought. Everyone seems to want Ted Thompson to make a splash in Free Agency. Have to free up money somehow. I'm not saying it has to be done. But I bet someone is looking at it.
Offline QCHuskerFan  
#10 Posted : Thursday, January 17, 2013 3:34:24 PM(UTC)

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Defense Rankings (of who played atleast 25% snaps) from ProFootballFocus
CB out of 113
•3rd Casey Hayward
•12th Sam Shields
•40th Davon House
•60th Tramon Williams

I don't think we can blame the quality of receivers for this ranking. Tramon had another below average year.

User is suspended until 5/30/2015 8:27:35 AM(UTC) DakotaT  
#11 Posted : Thursday, January 17, 2013 3:42:21 PM(UTC)

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QCHuskerFan said: Go to Quoted Post
Defense Rankings (of who played atleast 25% snaps) from ProFootballFocus
CB out of 113
•3rd Casey Hayward
•12th Sam Shields
•40th Davon House
•60th Tramon Williams

I don't think we can blame the quality of receivers for this ranking. Tramon had another below average year.



Like most stats, I don't think you list tells much of the whole picture. I would take that list and wipe my ass with it. It seems to me all that list shows is an interception ratio. It would be like calling Darren Sharper a better safety that Leroy or Nick Collins.
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GermanGilbert on 1/17/2013(UTC)
Online Zero2Cool  
#12 Posted : Thursday, January 17, 2013 5:39:20 PM(UTC)

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DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
Like most stats, I don't think you list tells much of the whole picture. I would take that list and wipe my ass with it. It seems to me all that list shows is an interception ratio. It would be like calling Darren Sharper a better safety that Leroy or Nick Collins.


You couldn't be further from the truth. The coverage portion consists of things like ... targets, receptions, yards, touchdowns, interceptions, passes defensed ... while also incorporating their run defense and pass rushing abilities. It's vastly more accurate than simply ranking players by total of interceptions.

A link was provided that explained how the grading was established. However, very true, it does not tell the whole story, but yet, tells a more accurate story than your fabled "interception ratio" mistaken claim.
Offline QCHuskerFan  
#13 Posted : Friday, January 18, 2013 8:43:19 AM(UTC)

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DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
Like most stats, I don't think you list tells much of the whole picture. I would take that list and wipe my ass with it. It seems to me all that list shows is an interception ratio. It would be like calling Darren Sharper a better safety that Leroy or Nick Collins.


Ok. Let's say it is an interception ranking. Is it wrong to expect that your supposed #1 CB, the man that will probably be thrown at more because of who he is facing, who is making 8M of your payroll, intercept more than, wait for it...... 2 passes? Because in addition to not being a strong run defender, that's what we got.

I will leave Tramon alone for a while. But we need to face the fact that 2013 is a huge year for him. If we want to consider him an elite CB, then he needs to defend better than he has the last 2 years.
Offline Rockmolder  
#14 Posted : Friday, January 18, 2013 8:51:53 AM(UTC)

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I'm not exactly sure what Tramon has done that we feel more confident with Shields, Hayward, House and Bush than with Jones, Nelson, Cobb and Boykin, but I can't see it.

He's had a somewhat down season, with the games against Megatron and the last one against the 49ers being imbedded in everyone's mind, it seems.

Yes, he was bad, but how about Jennings? What has he done to justify that franchise tag if you'll look at just this one season?

Don't forget that this was not that long ago.

Quote:
Cover Snaps Receptions Allowed REC/COV
Tramon Williams GB 792 56 7.07%


I'm confident that he can turn it around. And I'm not too confident that we have someone on the roster who can go up against the other team's number 1 receiver.

As good as Hayward's been, Megatron would eat him alive. Most nr. 1 receivers would eat him alive.

Last point, it's not a Ted Thompson move. As much as we like to discuss it, it'll never happen.
Offline QCHuskerFan  
#15 Posted : Friday, January 18, 2013 8:54:01 AM(UTC)

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Just read that Tramon shared the lead for missed tackles on the team. He and Burnett each had 11 missed tackles. But Burnett had twice as many tackles made. Williams missed 11 and made 77. So he missed 12.5% of the tackles he atempted.

Can't blame all of that on Aikman's announcing.

Now I'm done.
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