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Offline Zero2Cool  
#1 Posted : Thursday, January 17, 2013 6:47:09 AM(UTC)
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Donald Driver was paid $2.3 million for the 2012 season. The Packers will not be paying Driver that amount in 2013, therefore they can re-allocate that money to another WR, Greg Jennings, who earned $7.3 million for the 2012 season. You add that $2.3 to what Jennings received during 2012 and you get $9.6 million.

The WR franchise tender is going to be around $10.357 million for 2013.



I feel this way because I can't remember a single Ted Thompson drafted "star" that he has let go elsewhere. I think Jennings is a Green Bay Packer for the 2013 season and if he shows he's over this injury bug that got him a little bit in 2011 and a good portion of 2012, I see him getting a 3 or 4 deal during the season.



Here's my source for the 2013 franchise numbers - link.


This says about ~$500k lower, but not sure ...
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Edit, forgot to add that the Packers are carrying about $7 million from 2012 to 2013's salary cap.

Bob McGinn wrote:
The salary cap will increase minutely next year to about $121.3M. Green Bay will roll over what's left under the present cap, or $7.1M, into 2013 because all of their moves are designed to facilitate contract extensions for Clay Matthews, B.J. Raji and [Aaron] Rodgers in the next six to nine months.

Message modified by user Thursday, January 17, 2013 6:57:39 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline play2win  
#2 Posted : Thursday, January 17, 2013 6:57:49 AM(UTC)
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I like it. This has been a tough year for him with the groin injury and surgery, missing a ton of games, but he came back and played at a high level. Even if he might have been a half step slower, which it seemed.

Not sure he will command the giant $ in FA, but he may.

If he gets the tag, will he be disgruntled? That's my main concern. Sometimes, I wish that Ted were a better communicator with his players. Then I remember this is business.
Offline Wade  
#3 Posted : Thursday, January 17, 2013 8:20:28 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post


I feel this way because I can't remember a single Ted Thompson drafted "star" that he has let go elsewhere.



I agree with this. I don't worry about what Thompson does or does not do with "stars".

Thompson's weakness is what he does with talent at the one or two tiers below "star". (Especially, IMO, with OL talent.) That is the talent he lets get away (Wahle, Wells). That is the talent he most frequently errs with in free agency (Klemm, O'Dwyer, Saturday, Hutchinson). And that is the talent he errs with over and over again in the draft (Colledge, Spitz, Moll, various starters on various other teams).

Thompson insists on not overpaying in free agency. As a general matter, that is what we should want from a general manager. And we especially want it with respect to tier 1 stars -- since overpaying a tier 1 player can restrict other opportunities for years. But overpaying is sometimes necessary.

And because he's good at assessing talent in general, and has a lot of data on his own star players that he doesn't have with other team's star players, he knows when overpaying that star really isn't overpaying at all. What might look like a risk to us, really isn't. He's not going to let Rodgers go, and he's not going to let Matthews go. And, if he believes Jennings is truly a tier 1 star, he's not going to let him go just because he is going to cost mega-gazillions.

I personally think Jennings is gone because I don't think Thompson thinks of him as a tier 1 star in the way he thinks about Rodgers and Matthews. (I disagree and I'll bitch if he goes, but when thinking rationally, on this I'll go with Thompson's track record over mine. He doesn't get the stars wrong.) But if Ted Thompson believes Jennings is tier 1, he won't be going anywhere.

I'm not as confident that Ted Thompson will do the right thing regarding the tier 2 talent that the team needs to go back to the Super Bowl. But I am confident he'll get the tier 1 talent decisions correct more than often enough.




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Offline wpr  
#4 Posted : Thursday, January 17, 2013 8:42:44 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
Donald Driver was paid $2.3 million for the 2012 season. The Packers will not be paying Driver that amount in 2013, therefore they can re-allocate that money to another WR, Greg Jennings, who earned $7.3 million for the 2012 season. You add that $2.3 to what Jennings received during 2012 and you get $9.6 million.

The WR franchise tender is going to be around $10.357 million for 2013.



I feel this way because I can't remember a single Ted Thompson drafted "star" that he has let go elsewhere. I think Jennings is a Green Bay Packer for the 2013 season and if he shows he's over this injury bug that got him a little bit in 2011 and a good portion of 2012, I see him getting a 3 or 4 deal during the season.



Here's my source for the 2013 franchise numbers - link.


This says about ~$500k lower, but not sure ...
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Edit, forgot to add that the Packers are carrying about $7 million from 2012 to 2013's salary cap.



GB is a better team with him than without him.
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Offline wpr  
#5 Posted : Thursday, January 17, 2013 8:43:36 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Wade Go to Quoted Post
I agree with this. I don't worry about what Thompson does or does not do with "stars".

Thompson's weakness is what he does with talent at the one or two tiers below "star". (Especially, IMO, with OL talent.) That is the talent he lets get away (Wahle, Wells). That is the talent he most frequently errs with in free agency (Klemm, O'Dwyer, Saturday, Hutchinson). And that is the talent he errs with over and over again in the draft (Colledge, Spitz, Moll, various starters on various other teams).

Thompson insists on not overpaying in free agency. As a general matter, that is what we should want from a general manager. And we especially want it with respect to tier 1 stars -- since overpaying a tier 1 player can restrict other opportunities for years. But overpaying is sometimes necessary.

And because he's good at assessing talent in general, and has a lot of data on his own star players that he doesn't have with other team's star players, he knows when overpaying that star really isn't overpaying at all. What might look like a risk to us, really isn't. He's not going to let Rodgers go, and he's not going to let Matthews go. And, if he believes Jennings is truly a tier 1 star, he's not going to let him go just because he is going to cost mega-gazillions.

I personally think Jennings is gone because I don't think Thompson thinks of him as a tier 1 star in the way he thinks about Rodgers and Matthews. (I disagree and I'll bitch if he goes, but when thinking rationally, on this I'll go with Thompson's track record over mine. He doesn't get the stars wrong.) But if Ted Thompson believes Jennings is tier 1, he won't be going anywhere.

I'm not as confident that Ted Thompson will do the right thing regarding the tier 2 talent that the team needs to go back to the Super Bowl. But I am confident he'll get the tier 1 talent decisions correct more than often enough.






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Online nerdmann  
#6 Posted : Thursday, January 17, 2013 12:16:16 PM(UTC)
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Jennings has another year or two before the down side.
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Offline TheKanataThrilla  
#7 Posted : Thursday, January 17, 2013 11:51:43 PM(UTC)
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Jennings has had Favre and Rodgers. I don't want to disrespect the guy, but both of those guys can make WRs look better than they are. I really don't think we need to break the bank on the guy and I would rather use the money filling other needs and draft somebody at WR to work his way up the depth chart. Cobb, Nelson and Jones have carried the load quite well. I also like the idea of increasing TE focus and having a 2 TE attack as part of the offensive scheme like NE is employing.
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Offline RajiRoar  
#8 Posted : Friday, January 18, 2013 3:53:39 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: TheKanataThrilla Go to Quoted Post
Jennings has had Favre and Rodgers. I don't want to disrespect the guy, but both of those guys can make WRs look better than they are. I really don't think we need to break the bank on the guy and I would rather use the money filling other needs and draft somebody at WR to work his way up the depth chart. Cobb, Nelson and Jones have carried the load quite well. I also like the idea of increasing TE focus and having a 2 TE attack as part of the offensive scheme like NE is employing.


Think

diddn't someone mention this in another post?


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Offline Zero2Cool  
#9 Posted : Friday, January 18, 2013 5:52:29 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: TheKanataThrilla Go to Quoted Post
Jennings has had Favre and Rodgers. I don't want to disrespect the guy, but both of those guys can make WRs look better than they are. I really don't think we need to break the bank on the guy and I would rather use the money filling other needs and draft somebody at WR to work his way up the depth chart. Cobb, Nelson and Jones have carried the load quite well. I also like the idea of increasing TE focus and having a 2 TE attack as part of the offensive scheme like NE is employing.


Very true, however, Greg Jennings is open an awful lot. He has a hip move that is duplicated by no one that gets him some really good separation. That's why he's so dangerous in the slot.
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Offline Rockmolder  
#10 Posted : Friday, January 18, 2013 8:58:12 AM(UTC)
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I don't see a single way this'd happen.

The closest thing would be a franchise tag and trade kind of thing. Something we've all called for with Flynn and Jenkins in 2012 and 2011, respectively.

Not Ted's style.

There's a couple of ways people would fit this under the cap and justify spending 10 million dollars on Greg.

One calls for us to cut Tramon. I've gone into that one in the Jennings vs Williams thread, so I won't do it again here.

The other one's to re-allocate Driver's money, like Kevin suggested. Not a big fan of this one, either.

You're going to be operating awfully close to the cap, while we have very capable players at the position and could sign a 3rd, 4th WR a lot cheaper/draft one in april. Doesn't seem like it benefits us a whole lot for the risk we're taking, when we have a couple of must-sign players in line to get a contract extension.

Jennings is expendable at this point, while guys like Raji, Matthews, Williams etc leave you awfully thin at a certain position.

Next to that, Jennings is just not as talented as people tend to give him credit for. He's good, no doubt about it, but he's going towards 30, has some injury problems and has always been one tier below the elite.

He's not coming back.
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Offline TheKanataThrilla  
#11 Posted : Friday, January 18, 2013 8:59:58 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: RajiRoar Go to Quoted Post
Think

diddn't someone mention this in another post?


It is a league of copy-cats. The back shoulder throw is employed by most offenses now. The 2 TE attack with a WR who can stretch the field will take some drafting to implement, but should be do-able. I like the idea of a 2 TE attack as it is hard to defend and it has the ability to chew up clock. It also means our adequate but not spectacular running game is all we really need.
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Offline Wade  
#12 Posted : Friday, January 18, 2013 10:22:04 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Rockmolder Go to Quoted Post
I don't see a single way this'd happen.

The closest thing would be a franchise tag and trade kind of thing. Something we've all called for with Flynn and Jenkins in 2012 and 2011, respectively.

Not Ted's style.

There's a couple of ways people would fit this under the cap and justify spending 10 million dollars on Greg.

One calls for us to cut Tramon. I've gone into that one in the Jennings vs Williams thread, so I won't do it again here.

The other one's to re-allocate Driver's money, like Kevin suggested. Not a big fan of this one, either.

You're going to be operating awfully close to the cap, while we have very capable players at the position and could sign a 3rd, 4th WR a lot cheaper/draft one in april. Doesn't seem like it benefits us a whole lot for the risk we're taking, when we have a couple of must-sign players in line to get a contract extension.

Jennings is expendable at this point, while guys like Raji, Matthews, Williams etc leave you awfully thin at a certain position.

Next to that, Jennings is just not as talented as people tend to give him credit for. He's good, no doubt about it, but he's going towards 30, has some injury problems and has always been one tier below the elite.

He's not coming back.


I don't understand why everyone is still so keen on Raji. He's had two part years (end of 2010 and end of regular season in 2012) where he's been good. The rest of the time, he's disappeared. And if you look closely, it's not the usual "disappears because he's doing a thankless job of nose tackle who occupies two players but has low tackle numbers). It's "disappears because he can regularly be tied up with one blocker". That's what makes Pickett a superior DT to me. Unless he's hurt, or gassed in the 4th quarter because he's had to play too many snaps, he virtually always takes two blockers out of the equation. Raji doesn't.

He's had two 5-6 game streaks of dominance and one cool discount-double-check commercial. If it came down to "Raji or Jennings", I'd take the consistent high level of performance of Jennings every time. And go back to the draft/free agent drawing board in search of another starting NT.

Matthews v. Jennings. Matthews in a no brainer.

Williams v Jennings -- I don't know anymore. Before this year I would have said Williams in a heartbeat, because I thought him our best cover guy. Now, I just don't know.

And lets not forget, of the teams who would be substantially improved by signing Jennings, three of them reside in the NFC North. Cutler with Marshall AND Jennings, Stafford with Johnson AND Jennings, those would be particularly scary IMO.

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Offline Jlapp  
#13 Posted : Friday, January 18, 2013 10:29:13 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Wade Go to Quoted Post
And lets not forget, of the teams who would be substantially improved by signing Jennings, three of them reside in the NFC North. Cutler with Marshall AND Jennings, Stafford with Johnson AND Jennings, those would be particularly scary IMO.


If the packers can't afford to keep Jennings, there is no way in hell the Lions would be able to sign him. They'd have like 50% of their cap in those 3 players. Bears are similar position as Packers. Could make it work for 2013 but both of their corners scheduled to hit free agency in 2014.
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Offline DakotaT  
#14 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 3:49:01 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
I gave my reason why the Packers will franchise Greg Jennings. It's sound and reasonable. No one has proven the theory impossible or unlikely. Bring it!

Jordy Nelson, Greg Jennings, James Jones and Randall Cobb are very talented. Of the group, only Jennings would be more successful in another offense.

Nelson, Jones and Cobb are products of the offense.

Jennings #1.
Nelson #2.
Jones #3.
Cobb #3.

Packers have two 3's, one 2 and one 1.


All your theory is about is conjecture. The reason Jennings won't be franchised is because he isn't worth that much money just like Uncle Ted didn't think Wells was worthy of the franchise tag last year. If Jennings is franchised, I would be surprised if he wasn't traded for picks prior to the draft.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#15 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 5:01:56 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
All your theory is about is conjecture. The reason Jennings won't be franchised is because he isn't worth that much money just like Uncle Ted didn't think Wells was worthy of the franchise tag last year. If Jennings is franchised, I would be surprised if he wasn't traded for picks prior to the draft.


You have no theory and you are solely basing your response on conjecture where mine had facts in it. You can look them up yourself. Also, Scott Wells didn't want to return to the Packers and admitted as much. and Wells wasn't franchise tag worthy. That brings up a question, is Greg Jennings worth the $10 million for 2013 season?

Greg Jennings is clearly the best WR the Packers have. I'd rather Jennings on the roster and let Jermichael Finley go and see Andrew Quarless earn the starting TE position.

There are some consequences to tagging someone an hoping for a trade. It happened once, with Corey Williams. The CBA and some rules have changed since then, which makes me doubt we'll see that move again for the Ted Thompson Packers. The moment that player signs the tender, it becomes guaranteed cash and that is exactly why the Packers didn't franchise tag Matt Flynn. He would have been entitled to something like $15 million to sit on the bench.

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Offline DakotaT  
#16 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 5:18:24 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
You have no theory and you are solely basing your response on conjecture where mine had facts in it. You can look them up yourself. Also, Scott Wells didn't want to return to the Packers and admitted as much. and Wells wasn't franchise tag worthy. That brings up a question, is Greg Jennings worth the $10 million for 2013 season?

Greg Jennings is clearly the best WR the Packers have. I'd rather Jennings on the roster and let Jermichael Finley go and see Andrew Quarless earn the starting TE position.

There are some consequences to tagging someone an hoping for a trade. It happened once, with Corey Williams. The CBA and some rules have changed since then, which makes me doubt we'll see that move again for the Ted Thompson Packers. The moment that player signs the tender, it becomes guaranteed cash and that is exactly why the Packers didn't franchise tag Matt Flynn. He would have been entitled to something like $15 million to sit on the bench.



A three year deal is all I'd offer Jennings and not at $10M per either. Just because he happens to be our top receiver at the moment doesn't justify overpaying him. The Wells and Jennings situation is a lot different because one of the strengths of the Packers is the depth of the WR position - but the depth of the OLine causes a lot of concern. The Packers should have franchised Wells. Who gives a shit about hurt feelings.

I would be for franchising Jennings for a year - but then he is gone anyway after that.
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Offline play2win  
#17 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 5:19:31 PM(UTC)
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I think Jennings might be happy if he gets paid. But, something tells me he wants that shot at the open market, and Ted just might let him hit it. That's kind of his MO.
Online Cheesey  
#18 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 5:59:37 PM(UTC)
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I think play to win is right. I think Jennings
has an inflated opinions of himself and will want
the moon. seems like his talk has been
towards his wanting out of Green Bay.
I think he's good, but his attitude this season
has been strange.
I don't see Ted overpaying for him.
besides the fact that gb needs a full
defensive overhaul. I don't know if they
can get enough defense pieces to fix
the problems they have to be competitive
with the higher tier teams.
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Offline blueleopard  
#19 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 7:14:01 PM(UTC)
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It depends on what kind of ass Jennings' agent is.

Jennings definitely falls under the category of Packers people, and I think he definitely would consider a discount. As the #1 WR here, he knows that there are two other #1 receivers on this team, and he knows that Jermichael Finley could have another year to prove himself.

He already stated quite plainly that he "hopes" he's not franchised. IMO, especially considering the fact that he's a 2nd round draft choice who has outplayed every contract he's signed, he deserves to hit the open market. Maybe he'll turn out to be like James Jones. Not in the sense that nobody will show interest, but in the sense that he'll figure that GB is the proper home for him.

I think we all know Jennings needs Green Bay more than Green Bay needs him, but I also think the goal of any NFL player on the business sides of things who turns out to be good deserves their shot at a big payday.
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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#20 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 7:22:59 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: blueleopard Go to Quoted Post
It depends on what kind of ass Jennings' agent is.

Jennings definitely falls under the category of Packers people, and I think he definitely would consider a discount. As the #1 WR here, he knows that there are two other #1 receivers on this team, and he knows that Jermichael Finley could have another year to prove himself.

He already stated quite plainly that he "hopes" he's not franchised. IMO, especially considering the fact that he's a 2nd round draft choice who has outplayed every contract he's signed, he deserves to hit the open market. Maybe he'll turn out to be like James Jones. Not in the sense that nobody will show interest, but in the sense that he'll figure that GB is the proper home for him.

I think we all know Jennings needs Green Bay more than Green Bay needs him, but I also think the goal of any NFL player on the business sides of things who turns out to be good deserves their shot at a big payday.


Not a good thing then. His Agent is the same as Fitzgerald. Who has also has Suh, who held out his rookie contact, and Michael Crabtree who also held out into the regular season.
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Offline play2win  
#21 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 7:42:59 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Cheesey Go to Quoted Post
I think play to win is right. I think Jennings
has an inflated opinions of himself and will want
the moon. seems like his talk has been
towards his wanting out of Green Bay.
I think he's good, but his attitude this season
has been strange.
I don't see Ted overpaying for him.
besides the fact that gb needs a full
defensive overhaul. I don't know if they
can get enough defense pieces to fix
the problems they have to be competitive
with the higher tier teams.


It was kind of weird wasn't it Cheesey? I mean, I could see how he would have been a bit frustrated trying to come back from the groin injury, but he seemed like he wasn't all in with the rest of the team. I thought that was surprising. I like the player a lot, and wish he could recapture his will to win like he had in 2010, which was unmistakable. I just don't know if he will have that if he gets tagged. Might be best to move on now... Sadly. He's a great talent still.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#22 Posted : Tuesday, January 22, 2013 6:07:08 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
A three year deal is all I'd offer Jennings and not at $10M per either. Just because he happens to be our top receiver at the moment doesn't justify overpaying him. The Wells and Jennings situation is a lot different because one of the strengths of the Packers is the depth of the WR position - but the depth of the OLine causes a lot of concern. The Packers should have franchised Wells. Who gives a shit about hurt feelings.

I would be for franchising Jennings for a year - but then he is gone anyway after that.


I wouldn't do a three year deal. I'd want to see that he can stay healthy, which is why I said the franchise tag. I do agree, I don't think he's worth $10 million a season. But the Packers have the room for 2013 (they won't in 2014) to absorb the franchise tag.

I also agree that Greg Jennings might have an inflated opinion of himself, as every player should. James Jones acknowledged a rude awakening during the off season. And rumor among NFL personnel is Jennings won't be the same WR without Aaron Rodgers.
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Offline DakotaT  
#23 Posted : Tuesday, January 22, 2013 7:53:34 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
I wouldn't do a three year deal. I'd want to see that he can stay healthy, which is why I said the franchise tag. I do agree, I don't think he's worth $10 million a season. But the Packers have the room for 2013 (they won't in 2014) to absorb the franchise tag.

I also agree that Greg Jennings might have an inflated opinion of himself, as every player should. James Jones acknowledged a rude awakening during the off season. And rumor among NFL personnel is Jennings won't be the same WR without Aaron Rodgers.


Yeah, I read stuff like that too. The one problem with the franchise tag is that you can only use it once on a player, and by doing so, piss off that player so that they won't sign a longer deal with a team anyway and said player walks at the end of the season. Having a disgruntled player kills locker room morale and all you have done is rented a guy for a year. I'm not so sure the Packers treat people like this. The days of Walter Jones playing on one year contracts are over.
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Offline Yerko  
#24 Posted : Tuesday, January 22, 2013 11:30:14 AM(UTC)
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I don't see Jennings being tagged by the Packers. Jennings has already mentioned he doesn't want to be tagged and also has voiced his opinion about where he doesn't want to play (in the cold and some other factors). I am sure Ted Thompson sees it as wasted money to tag Jennings since he will just turn into a disgruntled player.

The Packers also showed that they can manage to make the offense work without him in the line up. I am not saying that the Packers are better without Jennings, because they aren't. However, he is worth more to another team (Minnesota, Arizona, Miami, Houston, etc) than he is to the Packers and those teams are going to give him his pay day whether we or any analyst/scout thinks otherwise.

-Check Arizona off that list...thought it made sense since Jennings trained with Fitz in the off-seasons. Link

-This just screams Jennings to Minny... Link

-Why not a reunion with Philbin in Miami? Who cares if they aren't contenders...they have a ton of cap and of course, Jennings sister requested it! Link

-Houston Texans...a contender, warm weather, a dome, a nice pay day...Jennings desires all of those. Link

I don't know the state of all these teams...who they have to restructure, resign, cut, etc...but I think it is fair to say that these teams are more desirable than the Packers to Greg Jennings. He has expressed his feelings and I think we will see Greg in a different jersey for the 2013 season.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#25 Posted : Tuesday, January 22, 2013 11:49:19 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Yerko Go to Quoted Post
I don't see Jennings being tagged by the Packers. Jennings has already mentioned he doesn't want to be tagged and also has voiced his opinion about where he doesn't want to play (in the cold and some other factors). I am sure Ted Thompson sees it as wasted money to tag Jennings since he will just turn into a disgruntled player.

The Packers also showed that they can manage to make the offense work without him in the line up. I am not saying that the Packers are better without Jennings, because they aren't. However, he is worth more to another team (Minnesota, Arizona, Miami, Houston, etc) than he is to the Packers and those teams are going to give him his pay day whether we or any analyst/scout thinks otherwise.

-Check Arizona off that list...thought it made sense since Jennings trained with Fitz in the off-seasons. Link

-This just screams Jennings to Minny... Link

-Why not a reunion with Philbin in Miami? Who cares if they aren't contenders...they have a ton of cap and of course, Jennings sister requested it! Link

-Houston Texans...a contender, warm weather, a dome, a nice pay day...Jennings desires all of those. Link

I don't know the state of all these teams...who they have to restructure, resign, cut, etc...but I think it is fair to say that these teams are more desirable than the Packers to Greg Jennings. He has expressed his feelings and I think we will see Greg in a different jersey for the 2013 season.


Where has Jennings said he does not want to be tagged? I think it's likely he has said it, as most players don't want to be, especially players closing in on 30. I just don't remember him once addressing it. (doesn't mean much, I forgot what I had for lunch) Edit, found it!
"I know one way I don't want to be here is under a franchise tag."

Where has Jennings said he desires a dome, warm weather (he's from/lives in Michigan) and to have a nice pay day? I think the latter is implied when he says he has to do what is best for himself an his family, but I can't remember him ever saying he wants to be on a contender that has a dome and is in warm weather.

Are these just assumptions of yours that you're stating as fact or is there some facts to support this? You have me curious and questioning my theory! haha

Message modified by user Tuesday, January 22, 2013 12:03:25 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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