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Offline DakotaT  
#31 Posted : Thursday, January 17, 2013 9:32:48 PM(UTC)
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Pack93z said: Go to Quoted Post
Pickett has another year on his contract unless I missed something in the last couple days.

High cap number.. but still signed. Are you stating he should be reworked at a lower number?


I thought Pickett was up this year.
Offline QCHuskerFan  
#32 Posted : Friday, January 18, 2013 9:00:32 AM(UTC)
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PackFanWithTwins said: Go to Quoted Post
While I am not proposing a swith to 4-3. Matthews would not be wasted as a 4-3 LBer. He could make an outstanding MLB in a 4-3. He would be like Urlacher. His pass rush ability would allow him to keep blockers off him in run support, he has the coverage skills and his speed would work good covering sideline to sideline.


He wouldn't be wasted, but not outstanding. Less utilized in his area of excellence.

It would be like Detroit moving Calvin Johnson to safety. Yes, he might be productive there. But why would you do that?
Offline Wade  
#33 Posted : Friday, January 18, 2013 10:22:57 AM(UTC)
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QCHuskerFan said: Go to Quoted Post
He wouldn't be wasted, but not outstanding. Less utilized in his area of excellence.

It would be like Detroit moving Calvin Johnson to safety. Yes, he might be productive there. But why would you do that?


Because you're the Lions?

[grin1]

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QCHuskerFan on 1/18/2013(UTC)
Offline doddpower  
#34 Posted : Friday, January 18, 2013 10:55:13 AM(UTC)
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QCHuskerFan said: Go to Quoted Post
He wouldn't be wasted, but not outstanding. Less utilized in his area of excellence.

It would be like Detroit moving Calvin Johnson to safety. Yes, he might be productive there. But why would you do that?


LOL, it's not even close to being that extreme of a change. CM3 would still be rushing the passer on passing downs exactly as he has been doing since he entered the league, and likely still playing defensive end on some variations of base packages, as well. He would just be utilized in different roles in a creative 4-3 hybrid scheme; sometimes a MLB, sometimes an OLB for a play or two, etc. Make no mistake about it, he would still be the teams best pass rusher, and no defense coordinator worthy of the title would not allow him to rush the passer most of the time.

I agree with the overall premise though that CM3 is ultimately likely best suited for a 3-4 OLB, but I don't think there would be that big of a difference in a 4-3 with the right coach. It's still a completely different scenario than moving Kampman to OLB. Clay already drops into coverage and spies often as it is, and he can rush the QB and play in space at an elite level. Not to mention, it can be argued that almost every other defensive player is either better suited for a hybrid 4-3 style of defense or, at the very least, as suited as they are for a 3-4. The net effect of that could easily be better defensive play around the board.

It doesn't matter though, as this discussion is just an interesting thought experiment. The Packers are sticking with a 3-4 under Dom Capers. I'm fine with that, but I think giving Ray Horton a shot at defensive coordinator would be a "risk" well worth taking.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#35 Posted : Friday, January 18, 2013 12:12:14 PM(UTC)
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QCHuskerFan said: Go to Quoted Post
He wouldn't be wasted, but not outstanding. Less utilized in his area of excellence.

It would be like Detroit moving Calvin Johnson to safety. Yes, he might be productive there. But why would you do that?


What? How the heck do you compare moving a WR to S equally as moving a 3 - 4 OLB to a 4 - 3 DE? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Those are vastly different sets of skills between the two, one striking difference is the requirement to go from breaking tackles to actually making tackles.




Why couldn't Clay Matthews play OLB in a 4 - 3? Why would he have to be switched to a DE? My high level understanding would be he'd benefit from having another guy on the DL which would allow him to unleash on the QB.
Offline QCHuskerFan  
#36 Posted : Friday, January 18, 2013 1:37:16 PM(UTC)
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Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
What? How the heck do you compare moving a WR to S equally as moving a 3 - 4 OLB to a 4 - 3 DE? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Those are vastly different sets of skills between the two, one striking difference is the requirement to go from breaking tackles to actually making tackles.




Why couldn't Clay Matthews play OLB in a 4 - 3? Why would he have to be switched to a DE? My high level understanding would be he'd benefit from having another guy on the DL which would allow him to unleash on the QB.


The point is that every team we face would be elated if we made Matthews into a 4-3 LB. Because it would limit his pass rushing. Much like making Johnson a safety would excite every team because it would be taking him away from catching touchdowns.

Let's try again. Does Minny make a habit of splitting AP out wide? No. Why? Well, if he is split out wide, it removes the threat of him running the ball. If the defense doesn't have to defend the run with AP, is their life better? Yes. So by continually splitting him out wide, Minny would help the other team. Lining CM3 up as an outside backer in a 4-3 would be removing him from the role he performs best. Yes, I know he can still blitz. But he would not be rushing the QB as much as he does in a 3-4. It's not possible.

Let's look at the 4-3 for a second. A 4-3 is designed to pressure the QB with the DL. So don't tell me he can still rush the QB a lot, because the defense is designed to not need that. When you blitz in a 4-3 you either rush 5 and depend on 6 to cover which is a risk, or you drop a 290lb lineman into coverage, again, not ideal.

Let's not even think about CM3 as a middle backer. That's just wrong.
Offline Rockmolder  
#37 Posted : Friday, January 18, 2013 1:49:55 PM(UTC)
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Didn't seem to stop Von Miller a whole lot in his first year with the Broncos.

You can use a LB in a pass rushing role very effectively in a 4-3, as well. It's not like he's always coming on the rush in the 3-4. Maybe the drop back percentage would be a bit higher, but not that crazy.

Don't know why we're having this discusson, though. If there's one thing that doesn't work, it's switching schemes every four years. Don't know why it'd be necessary to go to the 4-3, all of a sudden. Especially since everyone was jumping out of joy when we fired Sanders and went to the 3-4 with Capers.
Offline doddpower  
#38 Posted : Friday, January 18, 2013 2:12:25 PM(UTC)
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Rockmolder said: Go to Quoted Post
Didn't seem to stop Von Miller a whole lot in his first year with the Broncos.

You can use a LB in a pass rushing role very effectively in a 4-3, as well. It's not like he's always coming on the rush in the 3-4. Maybe the drop back percentage would be a bit higher, but not that crazy.

Don't know why we're having this discusson, though. If there's one thing that doesn't work, it's switching schemes every four years. Don't know why it'd be necessary to go to the 4-3, all of a sudden. Especially since everyone was jumping out of joy when we fired Sanders and went to the 3-4 with Capers.


As I said earlier, it's just an interesting thought experiment, especially considering how many Packers defensive players currently on the roster seem to be much better suited for a 4-3.

Re: the previous discussion, CM3 would be rushing from a DE/OLB position on obvious passing downs, regardless of whether he was standing or had a hand in the dirt in a 3-4 or 4-3 scheme. The only difference would be is that he would play more of a "rover" role, almost like Charles Woodson has done in the past on 1st and 2nd downs in a 4-3, depending on the situation. And at times, I'm sure he would still line up as a DE in base packages, as well. I wouldn't view that as much of a problem at all, and very well could be a good thing. He already does similar things now, especially against mobile QBs when spying. I'm not sure why some think it would limit his pass rushing opportunities at all, at least with a good coordinator. But as has been said, it's nothing more than something interesting to talk about in a long season, because it's not happening. Hopefully several of these other more prototypical 4-3 can make a better transition to a 3-4 defense next season though. Or better yet, we get more appropriate 3-4 personnel, especially DL and LBs.

Offline dhazer  
#39 Posted : Sunday, January 20, 2013 8:40:17 AM(UTC)
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All this talk about switching to a 4-3 and wasting CM3's talents is actually funny. You people do realize he was a DE in college right? Thats what he was drafted as and he had to learn the 3-4 scheme. I know we won't switch cuz we are in the same type of years we were in with Favre. You know the ones where we get to the playoffs but then get knocked out.
Offline Rockmolder  
#40 Posted : Sunday, January 20, 2013 9:52:25 AM(UTC)
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dhazer said: Go to Quoted Post
All this talk about switching to a 4-3 and wasting CM3's talents is actually funny. You people do realize he was a DE in college right? Thats what he was drafted as and he had to learn the 3-4 scheme. I know we won't switch cuz we are in the same type of years we were in with Favre. You know the ones where we get to the playoffs but then get knocked out.


He wasn't, actually. He played the elephant position at USC. Pretty much as stand-up hybrid DE/LB. Very similar what he plays here in Green Bay.
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Zero2Cool on 1/20/2013(UTC)
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