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Offline Rockmolder  
#1 Posted : Sunday, January 20, 2013 4:18:26 PM(UTC)
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I've been thinking about this throughout the season. Everyone in the media and every Packer fan will tell you that we have the best group of receivers in the game.

Or at least, one of the top 3 groups.

But why?

Jennings is a good receiver, don't get me wrong, but he's not in that elite tier. He's no Megatron, no White, no A. Johnson, no Marshall... That drops you down in the rankings in my book.

Then you have Nelson. He came on very strong halfway last season, but he didn't look that great this year. He missed some games, maybe that hampered him, but he looked pretty sluggish at times. Not bad, by any stretch, but nothing more than a nr. 2, mostly.

James Jones was a pleasant surprise. Especially not dropping a whole lot of balls was a big plus. Lost in the euphoria over his 14 TD season was that he didn't put up a whole lot of yards for being the vocal point of the offense, together with Cobb, in a lot of games. On tape, it look equally average, really showing that 4.55 40 speed.

Cobb played amazingly in his all-purpose role. Not a guy you'd like on the perimeter, though. That's not a knock on him and his skill-set, as he's the most promising receiver on our roster, if you ask me.

Driver shouldn't have been on any NFL roster this year. Boykin and Ross are unknowns.

For a WR group, that's good, but not great.

Then we have our TEs. Our only pure receiver is Finley, who's wildly inconsistent, has a problem with drops and looks like he has some huge mental lapses from time to time. One of those guys who was tons of potential, which never truly comes to fruition.

The rest of the TE group isn't that noteworthy.

Now, I'm not saying that we don't have a good group of receivers. Not at all. Going four deep like that is pretty impressive for a WR core. Thing is, we're not even close to the Falcons, the Saints are ahead of us, the Bengals are pretty strong, the Broncos look pretty good, the 49ers are getting awfully close...

Like I said, we're not that bad, but we're not the cream of the crop, like we used to be, either. I feel like Rodgers make a lot of these guys a lot better than they are, as well.

I wouldn't be surprised if Ted went after another WR early in the draft, at all. Asuming Greg leaves, I feel like it's almost a given. And that's without even taking Finley's huge cap hit, which doesn't match his production at all.
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Offline doddpower  
#2 Posted : Sunday, January 20, 2013 4:52:48 PM(UTC)
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I would unquestionably take the Packers receiving corps from 2011 and 2012 over the Saints, Broncos, and definitely Bengals. Falcons have two great WRs and a tight end that is now likely finished. I'm not a huge fan of Douglas, so beyond they're top two, it's not that impressive anymore. How impressive is that group is Julio Jones or Roddy White is out of the game? If the Packers are missing one guy, they are still dangerous. The Falcons just don't have the same depth, imo. As for the Saints and the Broncos, both of their respective QBs make their WRs look much better, as well, just like Rodgers does. That's what great QBs do.

Obviously losing Jennings takes the Packers receivers down a big notch, even more so without Finley. But with all of those guys the Packers have had for the past two seasons, it's hard to beat. As always though, I'd trade 5 good receiving threats for a better offensive line and/or defense, not that they are mutually exclusive, though.
Offline blueleopard  
#3 Posted : Sunday, January 20, 2013 6:15:11 PM(UTC)
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None of them are physical specimen that'll be All-Pros every year, but our style of the WCO makes them invaluable to our team. We have the kind of depth where losing two people doesn't matter, because everybody can play everything.

Sharpe and Freeman, and Walker and Driver, IMO were the best 1-2 punches we've ever had... but for the offense that we run, we definitely have the best.
Danreb Victorio A Believer of Greg Jennings
Offline PackerTraxx  
#4 Posted : Sunday, January 20, 2013 6:24:28 PM(UTC)
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As mentioned Jennings is not elite, but her is our best reciever and it would be great to keep him. Personally, I think Greg may be in for a somewhat rude surprise as to his worth. In my mind we have one #1 reciever and a really outstanding corps or #2 receivers. An elite to go with them would be truly awesome. I'm not a fan of either but you have to give credit to Atlanta and DC to pull the trigger to get outstanding players in Jones and RGIII, they make the players around them better.
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Offline dfosterf  
#5 Posted : Sunday, January 20, 2013 8:08:13 PM(UTC)
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Compared to what? (Rock, as OP)

How many legitimate targets does Rodgers have to hit? Statistically, the Pack goes off the scale in that arena.

We throw the ball around a lot, so no individual is going to stand out, imo

I very much like our WR situation, it isn't even expensive, and we have many fish to fry this off-season, with contracts and cap room, etc.

Give Aaron Rodgers a great line, that's all I ask, then we shall see who is great and who is not. We are absolutely squandering his talent, imo
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Offline Gaycandybacon  
#6 Posted : Sunday, January 20, 2013 8:15:00 PM(UTC)
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Jennings has 53 touchdowns 6,537 yards and 425 receptions to his name. The guy should be mentioned imo when he's healthy one of the top recievers in the NFL. He runs beautiful routes and can make people miss. That frankly, not many receivers can do well In the NFL. I know I'm speaking for him because I'm a Packers fan. But when he's on the field he makes this team a hell of a lot better. This guy is a threat. A real Threat. If we let him go for something other than money. It's a huge mistake.
Offline dfosterf  
#7 Posted : Sunday, January 20, 2013 8:46:29 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Gaycandybacon Go to Quoted Post
Jennings has 53 touchdowns 6,537 yards and 425 receptions to his name. The guy should be mentioned imo when he's healthy one of the top recievers in the NFL. He runs beautiful routes and can make people miss. That frankly, not many receivers can do well In the NFL. I know I'm speaking for him because I'm a Packers fan. But when he's on the field he makes this team a hell of a lot better. This guy is a threat. A real Threat. If we let him go for something other than money. It's a huge mistake.


It's going to be money.

We have to pay Aaron Rodgers. That contract is going to KILL us, without some seriously innovative thinking from manglement and coaching.

We don't do that, the innovative thinking thing. We are slow-assed-sodbusters that take situations as they come to us. I fear that contract will send us into the cellar. I will blame manglement and coaching.

Any of you democratic-leaning-commie-type-everyone gets a free-ride-I'm ok you're ok Obama voters looked into the going rate of a top-of-the-NFL QB in spite of a complete shit-box line and no running back QB market might look like? The numbers are not good for the rest of the team, money-wise.

It is a failed policy, btw. This game is built upon making your QB comfy, and the other QB uncomfy. I don't care how much money they give Aaron, he cannot overcome that truth. It's only going down-hill until these great minds we love so much learn to prioritize, which they will not, as the great minds are not all that in the first friggin' place. Not that I'm bitter. Laugh

WR's? Who leaves? Who goes? Who stays? Talk about an over-rated issue, especially in Green Bay, with our real issues...

puleeze.

Who gets heat on their QB, who keeps the heat off mine. Gimme a good subject, Detlev.

imo.

Message modified by user Sunday, January 20, 2013 9:46:50 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Online Zero2Cool  
#8 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 6:07:31 AM(UTC)
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I gave my reason why the Packers will franchise Greg Jennings. It's sound and reasonable. No one has proven the theory impossible or unlikely. Bring it!

Jordy Nelson, Greg Jennings, James Jones and Randall Cobb are very talented. Of the group, only Jennings would be more successful in another offense.

Nelson, Jones and Cobb are products of the offense.

Jennings #1.
Nelson #2.
Jones #3.
Cobb #3.

Packers have two 3's, one 2 and one 1.
"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." - Nikola Tesla

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Offline Pack93z  
#9 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 7:35:16 AM(UTC)
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I think this type of thread highlights the point of how fast things change in the NFL of today. Two years ago.. this isn't a conversation that couldn't be made in the Packers favor. To now.. where it is hard to make the argument the Packers are in the top 5.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline Porforis  
#10 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 8:02:47 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
I gave my reason why the Packers will franchise Greg Jennings. It's sound and reasonable. No one has proven the theory impossible or unlikely. Bring it!

Jordy Nelson, Greg Jennings, James Jones and Randall Cobb are very talented. Of the group, only Jennings would be more successful in another offense.

Nelson, Jones and Cobb are products of the offense.

Jennings #1.
Nelson #2.
Jones #3.
Cobb #3.

Packers have two 3's, one 2 and one 1.


The thing about Jones is that the way he played this year, he's at least going to be a #2, a #1 on some teams. He really stepped it up and I hope he continues that performance. His average over the last 3 years though, definitely a #3 or #2. Cobb's hard to get a handle on since this was his first year where he was integrated into the offense almost full-time, but I agree that he'd be a #3 (a high-end one).
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Offline Rockmolder  
#11 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 10:21:18 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Porforis Go to Quoted Post
The thing about Jones is that the way he played this year, he's at least going to be a #2, a #1 on some teams. He really stepped it up and I hope he continues that performance. His average over the last 3 years though, definitely a #3 or #2. Cobb's hard to get a handle on since this was his first year where he was integrated into the offense almost full-time, but I agree that he'd be a #3 (a high-end one).


Jones' problem is that he's a slow WR, who lacks the elite body control to make up for it (asuming you want him as your nr. 1). He's no Fitzgerald, Boldin, Crabtree etc.

Jordy and Jennings are both good players, but they won't pull double coverage or anything. If anything, Jennings is a good, but not great, nr. 1 and Nelson is a high-end 2.

I don't think our receiver group matches up favorably to any of the teams I mentioned, but I see how you could dispute a lot of those claims.

Tamme gives you some consistensy that you don't have with Finley. Thomas is on the brink of being called an elite wide-out, for as far as you can't call him that yet. Eric Decker is a better WR than our nr. 2. As far as Stokley, I'll give that one to us. We have some better depth.

I'm not going to break down every team, but you get the point.

One of the most glaring examples for me is how often Rodgers has no pressure on him for quite some time, with our O-line doing a very, very good job, but he still can't find anyone open. A lot of the throws he makes have to be absolutely pin-point accurate, because there's little to no seperation most of the time. Our guys just aren't getting open and opposing offenses have figured out that whole back shoulder throw fad.

We'll see what happens next year, but I think that, if a guy like Jones or Nelson goes to a different team, they're not close to being as succesful as they are here.

I don't feel like Rodgers finding tons of different targets speaks as much about the talent, per say, as it does about necessity.

If we want to get back to being (one of) the best WR/TE groups, we need to get ourselves a star player. Like blueleopard mentioned, a Walker or Sharpe. Something that would've changed Favre's career, as well, I think, but that's a whole different story.
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Offline Porforis  
#12 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 10:57:27 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Rockmolder Go to Quoted Post
Jones' problem is that he's a slow WR, who lacks the elite body control to make up for it (asuming you want him as your nr. 1). He's no Fitzgerald, Boldin, Crabtree etc.


I say that he makes up a good chunk of that with good moves and routes. A handful of times this year he got open with a nice juke and I don't seem to recall any instances last year where it look like he blew a route (at least when Rodgers threw it his way(.

Originally Posted by: Rockmolder Go to Quoted Post
Jordy and Jennings are both good players, but they won't pull double coverage or anything. If anything, Jennings is a good, but not great, nr. 1 and Nelson is a high-end 2.

I don't think our receiver group matches up favorably to any of the teams I mentioned, but I see how you could dispute a lot of those claims.


Yeah, I think most of our strength comes from quantity over quality. Nobody's overwhelming or deserves double coverage most of the time, but our #3 and #4 are good enough that single coverage against them is generally a favorable matchup.

A star player would be awesome, but that costs a lot of money in free agency or a great and lucky draft pick. And considering the state of our O Line and segments of our defense that are either lacking in talent or depth, I'm not sure that's the top priority IMO.
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Offline play2win  
#13 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 12:39:08 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Rockmolder Go to Quoted Post

If we want to get back to being (one of) the best WR/TE groups, we need to get ourselves a star player. Like blueleopard mentioned, a Walker or Sharpe. Something that would've changed Favre's career, as well, I think, but that's a whole different story.


To me, our problems are that we really do need a star calibre TE, or two, along with a solid running game to make it all work. I am all for franchising Jennings if they deem him worthy of it. I think Jones, Nelson and Cobb are awesome talents. I think Finley is a head case who needs to be let go. We could use a better LT, and a new C. Personally, I feel our problems have been ineffective line play, especially so in run blocking, but also in pass protection, along with poor coaching/playcalling - leaving our O one dimensional (primarily passing).

If we can add a real TE who can both catch and block, and be more of a committed running team, I think we could be very, very difficult to beat, even if we are only talking Jones, Nelson and Cobb at WR.

Jennings kind of pissed me off this year with his pouting. You could sense he was unhappy, and he let is show on the field. I do not think we got his all, when healthy, this season. They should be very careful in franchising him. Seems he signed up for the big payday LAST season's end...

Our WRs are not he best, but they are very, very good. So is our QB. We were exposed as being one dimensional last year. Went through this entire 2012 season one dimensional as well. Look what that got us... We MUST have an attitude/scheme/personnel change in order to improve as a team. Our WRs are fine in my opinion. Our deficiencies are broader than that.
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#14 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 1:09:05 PM(UTC)
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I think we have teh best WR group is because we don't have a #1. We have 4 #2's. When we line up, our #3 and #4 WR should be better than almost any teams #3 and #4 CB. Get Cobb a little work on the deep routes, and all 4 would be able to play any of the positions. They all would be deep threats and all could run the slants and crossing routes. Ross seems like he has the ability also, he has decent size and some explosive speed.

I'm hoping Rodgers and the other WR talk with Jennings and convince him, that making good pay (NFL wise) as one of the group, is a much better option than making Great money to go somewhere to be "The Man". And that Rodgers in the not so distant future realizes teh same thing. Being the best paid, doesn't make the team better. The differnce between 10mil/yr and 20mil/yr could easily be the difference between having a good and a great Oline, or 1 or 2 WR compared to 3 or 4.
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Offline Wade  
#15 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 1:34:00 PM(UTC)
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I'd rather have a slow receiver with great moves than a speed demon without them.
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Online DakotaT  
#16 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 3:45:21 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wade Go to Quoted Post
I'd rather have a slow receiver with great moves than a speed demon without them.


And an ability to catch the ball is a must. LOL
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Offline porky88  
#17 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 5:52:10 PM(UTC)
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It's a quality versus quantity debate. The Packers probably don't have one elite wide receiver on their roster. However, they have four very good ones. I think you take any one of the four (Jennings, Cobb, Nelson, & Jones) and they're a No. 1 on a dozen or so NFL teams. All of them are probably a No. 2 on nearly every team.

Neither player ranks above Julio Jones and Roddy White, but Atlanta can't go four-deep. Yes, neither ranks above A.J. Green, though the Cincinnati comment is an eyebrow raiser. They don't have anyone other than Green. They’re the AFC’s equivalent to Detroit.

It's an interesting debate. I think the top two choices are Atlanta and Green Bay, though. Are two elite players better than four very good players are? If you throw in tight ends, then it becomes a debate of three elite players versus five very good players. I was thinking about this during the NFC championship. It's hard to say, but I think Atlanta's big three gives defenses more trouble, though Tony Gonzalez, Greg Jennings, and Jermichael Finley may all be in for changes this off-season.
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Zero2Cool on 1/22/2013(UTC), Dulak on 1/28/2013(UTC)
Online DakotaT  
#18 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 6:02:06 PM(UTC)
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I think a #1 wide receiver ruins an offense like we have. I don't really think we need one. The last thing we had close to a #1 was Javon Walker and before that, Sterling Sharpe. The bottom line to this whole thing is whether or not the Packers will overpay for Jennings, when there are more important fish to fry like Raji, Matthews, and Rodgers. I'm thinking Greg will be allowed to test the waters.
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Offline Porforis  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, January 22, 2013 7:05:38 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
I think a #1 wide receiver ruins an offense like we have. I don't really think we need one. The last thing we had close to a #1 was Javon Walker and before that, Sterling Sharpe. The bottom line to this whole thing is whether or not the Packers will overpay for Jennings, when there are more important fish to fry like Raji, Matthews, and Rodgers. I'm thinking Greg will be allowed to test the waters.


If we play smart with our #1 receiver, it'd be a huge blessing. If it turns into Aaron Rodgers' go-to throw-into-triple-coverage-instead-of-throwing-it-away or ignore-the-guy-in-the-flat guy, then you're absolutely right.
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Offline Rockmolder  
#20 Posted : Sunday, January 27, 2013 3:43:49 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
I think a #1 wide receiver ruins an offense like we have. I don't really think we need one. The last thing we had close to a #1 was Javon Walker and before that, Sterling Sharpe. The bottom line to this whole thing is whether or not the Packers will overpay for Jennings, when there are more important fish to fry like Raji, Matthews, and Rodgers. I'm thinking Greg will be allowed to test the waters.


I don't see why.

Do we really have so little trust in Rodgers that we think that he's too dumb to go through the progressions once he gets a legitimate number 1?

Good that we're somehow seeing the game a lot clearer from our couches than the 2011 NFL MVP does on the field.

I don't think a good nr. 1 would hurt.

And having Rodgers just throw it up once every so often to a guy like we had in Walker or Sharpe is no shame, either. They can make that play pretty consistently and, if not, they don't let it get intercepted all that often.

Anyway, found this on Walter Football. Couldn't agree more.

Quote:
Team needs:

3. Wide Receiver: Greg Jennings is a free agent. If he leaves, Aaron Rodgers will still have Randall Cobb, Jordy Nelson and James Jones at his disposal, but none of those guys are No. 1 receivers. General manager Ted Thompson may opt to draft one at the end of the first round.
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Offline RajiRoar  
#21 Posted : Sunday, January 27, 2013 4:27:07 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Rockmolder Go to Quoted Post

Good that we're somehow seeing the game a lot clearer from our couches than the 2011 NFL MVP does on the field.


well,

I think most of us could have seen from the couch that starting Jarrett Bush WK1 was going to be a shitty idea.

Or continuing to pay(play) Walden despite the only thing he's remotely acceptable at is being "experienced".

Just sayin'

some outside perspective could really help in the GB think tank.

couch potatoes are not always wrong :P


that said,

if Mike McCarthy really wants to continue this deep-route-abandon-the-run-fuck-it-just-go-deep-on-the-cover-2 offense, than yes.. we need a LEGIT #1 WR.


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Offline Rockmolder  
#22 Posted : Monday, January 28, 2013 4:10:30 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: RajiRoar Go to Quoted Post
well,

I think most of us could have seen from the couch that starting Jarrett Bush WK1 was going to be a shitty idea.

Or continuing to pay(play) Walden despite the only thing he's remotely acceptable at is being "experienced".

Just sayin'

some outside perspective could really help in the GB think tank.

couch potatoes are not always wrong :P


that said,

if Mike McCarthy really wants to continue this deep-route-abandon-the-run-fuck-it-just-go-deep-on-the-cover-2 offense, than yes.. we need a LEGIT #1 WR.


It really is as much of a gamble as anything else if you put in a rookie as your 3rd CB to start the season. No one could predict Hayward having the season he had.

Next to that, I imagine that Bush played best in TC, since you don't get a starting job just for being there.

On Walden... Who would you put out there that we have on our roster?

Also, I doubt Rodgers has much to say about who's on the field (on defence) and, lastly, choosing personel is something completely different than choosing what receiver you're going to throw to.
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