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Offline Rockmolder  
#11 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 10:21:18 AM(UTC)
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Porforis said: Go to Quoted Post
The thing about Jones is that the way he played this year, he's at least going to be a #2, a #1 on some teams. He really stepped it up and I hope he continues that performance. His average over the last 3 years though, definitely a #3 or #2. Cobb's hard to get a handle on since this was his first year where he was integrated into the offense almost full-time, but I agree that he'd be a #3 (a high-end one).


Jones' problem is that he's a slow WR, who lacks the elite body control to make up for it (asuming you want him as your nr. 1). He's no Fitzgerald, Boldin, Crabtree etc.

Jordy and Jennings are both good players, but they won't pull double coverage or anything. If anything, Jennings is a good, but not great, nr. 1 and Nelson is a high-end 2.

I don't think our receiver group matches up favorably to any of the teams I mentioned, but I see how you could dispute a lot of those claims.

Tamme gives you some consistensy that you don't have with Finley. Thomas is on the brink of being called an elite wide-out, for as far as you can't call him that yet. Eric Decker is a better WR than our nr. 2. As far as Stokley, I'll give that one to us. We have some better depth.

I'm not going to break down every team, but you get the point.

One of the most glaring examples for me is how often Rodgers has no pressure on him for quite some time, with our O-line doing a very, very good job, but he still can't find anyone open. A lot of the throws he makes have to be absolutely pin-point accurate, because there's little to no seperation most of the time. Our guys just aren't getting open and opposing offenses have figured out that whole back shoulder throw fad.

We'll see what happens next year, but I think that, if a guy like Jones or Nelson goes to a different team, they're not close to being as succesful as they are here.

I don't feel like Rodgers finding tons of different targets speaks as much about the talent, per say, as it does about necessity.

If we want to get back to being (one of) the best WR/TE groups, we need to get ourselves a star player. Like blueleopard mentioned, a Walker or Sharpe. Something that would've changed Favre's career, as well, I think, but that's a whole different story.
Offline Porforis  
#12 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 10:57:27 AM(UTC)
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Rockmolder said: Go to Quoted Post
Jones' problem is that he's a slow WR, who lacks the elite body control to make up for it (asuming you want him as your nr. 1). He's no Fitzgerald, Boldin, Crabtree etc.


I say that he makes up a good chunk of that with good moves and routes. A handful of times this year he got open with a nice juke and I don't seem to recall any instances last year where it look like he blew a route (at least when Rodgers threw it his way(.

Rockmolder said: Go to Quoted Post
Jordy and Jennings are both good players, but they won't pull double coverage or anything. If anything, Jennings is a good, but not great, nr. 1 and Nelson is a high-end 2.

I don't think our receiver group matches up favorably to any of the teams I mentioned, but I see how you could dispute a lot of those claims.


Yeah, I think most of our strength comes from quantity over quality. Nobody's overwhelming or deserves double coverage most of the time, but our #3 and #4 are good enough that single coverage against them is generally a favorable matchup.

A star player would be awesome, but that costs a lot of money in free agency or a great and lucky draft pick. And considering the state of our O Line and segments of our defense that are either lacking in talent or depth, I'm not sure that's the top priority IMO.
Offline play2win  
#13 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 12:39:08 PM(UTC)
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Rockmolder said: Go to Quoted Post

If we want to get back to being (one of) the best WR/TE groups, we need to get ourselves a star player. Like blueleopard mentioned, a Walker or Sharpe. Something that would've changed Favre's career, as well, I think, but that's a whole different story.


To me, our problems are that we really do need a star calibre TE, or two, along with a solid running game to make it all work. I am all for franchising Jennings if they deem him worthy of it. I think Jones, Nelson and Cobb are awesome talents. I think Finley is a head case who needs to be let go. We could use a better LT, and a new C. Personally, I feel our problems have been ineffective line play, especially so in run blocking, but also in pass protection, along with poor coaching/playcalling - leaving our O one dimensional (primarily passing).

If we can add a real TE who can both catch and block, and be more of a committed running team, I think we could be very, very difficult to beat, even if we are only talking Jones, Nelson and Cobb at WR.

Jennings kind of pissed me off this year with his pouting. You could sense he was unhappy, and he let is show on the field. I do not think we got his all, when healthy, this season. They should be very careful in franchising him. Seems he signed up for the big payday LAST season's end...

Our WRs are not he best, but they are very, very good. So is our QB. We were exposed as being one dimensional last year. Went through this entire 2012 season one dimensional as well. Look what that got us... We MUST have an attitude/scheme/personnel change in order to improve as a team. Our WRs are fine in my opinion. Our deficiencies are broader than that.
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#14 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 1:09:05 PM(UTC)
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I think we have teh best WR group is because we don't have a #1. We have 4 #2's. When we line up, our #3 and #4 WR should be better than almost any teams #3 and #4 CB. Get Cobb a little work on the deep routes, and all 4 would be able to play any of the positions. They all would be deep threats and all could run the slants and crossing routes. Ross seems like he has the ability also, he has decent size and some explosive speed.

I'm hoping Rodgers and the other WR talk with Jennings and convince him, that making good pay (NFL wise) as one of the group, is a much better option than making Great money to go somewhere to be "The Man". And that Rodgers in the not so distant future realizes teh same thing. Being the best paid, doesn't make the team better. The differnce between 10mil/yr and 20mil/yr could easily be the difference between having a good and a great Oline, or 1 or 2 WR compared to 3 or 4.
Offline Wade  
#15 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 1:34:00 PM(UTC)
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I'd rather have a slow receiver with great moves than a speed demon without them.
Offline DakotaT  
#16 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 3:45:21 PM(UTC)
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wade said: Go to Quoted Post
I'd rather have a slow receiver with great moves than a speed demon without them.


And an ability to catch the ball is a must. LOL
Offline porky88  
#17 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 5:52:10 PM(UTC)
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It's a quality versus quantity debate. The Packers probably don't have one elite wide receiver on their roster. However, they have four very good ones. I think you take any one of the four (Jennings, Cobb, Nelson, & Jones) and they're a No. 1 on a dozen or so NFL teams. All of them are probably a No. 2 on nearly every team.

Neither player ranks above Julio Jones and Roddy White, but Atlanta can't go four-deep. Yes, neither ranks above A.J. Green, though the Cincinnati comment is an eyebrow raiser. They don't have anyone other than Green. They’re the AFC’s equivalent to Detroit.

It's an interesting debate. I think the top two choices are Atlanta and Green Bay, though. Are two elite players better than four very good players are? If you throw in tight ends, then it becomes a debate of three elite players versus five very good players. I was thinking about this during the NFC championship. It's hard to say, but I think Atlanta's big three gives defenses more trouble, though Tony Gonzalez, Greg Jennings, and Jermichael Finley may all be in for changes this off-season.
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Zero2Cool on 1/22/2013(UTC), Dulak on 1/28/2013(UTC)
Offline DakotaT  
#18 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 6:02:06 PM(UTC)
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I think a #1 wide receiver ruins an offense like we have. I don't really think we need one. The last thing we had close to a #1 was Javon Walker and before that, Sterling Sharpe. The bottom line to this whole thing is whether or not the Packers will overpay for Jennings, when there are more important fish to fry like Raji, Matthews, and Rodgers. I'm thinking Greg will be allowed to test the waters.
Offline Porforis  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, January 22, 2013 7:05:38 AM(UTC)
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DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
I think a #1 wide receiver ruins an offense like we have. I don't really think we need one. The last thing we had close to a #1 was Javon Walker and before that, Sterling Sharpe. The bottom line to this whole thing is whether or not the Packers will overpay for Jennings, when there are more important fish to fry like Raji, Matthews, and Rodgers. I'm thinking Greg will be allowed to test the waters.


If we play smart with our #1 receiver, it'd be a huge blessing. If it turns into Aaron Rodgers' go-to throw-into-triple-coverage-instead-of-throwing-it-away or ignore-the-guy-in-the-flat guy, then you're absolutely right.
Offline Rockmolder  
#20 Posted : Sunday, January 27, 2013 3:43:49 PM(UTC)
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DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
I think a #1 wide receiver ruins an offense like we have. I don't really think we need one. The last thing we had close to a #1 was Javon Walker and before that, Sterling Sharpe. The bottom line to this whole thing is whether or not the Packers will overpay for Jennings, when there are more important fish to fry like Raji, Matthews, and Rodgers. I'm thinking Greg will be allowed to test the waters.


I don't see why.

Do we really have so little trust in Rodgers that we think that he's too dumb to go through the progressions once he gets a legitimate number 1?

Good that we're somehow seeing the game a lot clearer from our couches than the 2011 NFL MVP does on the field.

I don't think a good nr. 1 would hurt.

And having Rodgers just throw it up once every so often to a guy like we had in Walker or Sharpe is no shame, either. They can make that play pretty consistently and, if not, they don't let it get intercepted all that often.

Anyway, found this on Walter Football. Couldn't agree more.

Quote:
Team needs:

3. Wide Receiver: Greg Jennings is a free agent. If he leaves, Aaron Rodgers will still have Randall Cobb, Jordy Nelson and James Jones at his disposal, but none of those guys are No. 1 receivers. General manager Ted Thompson may opt to draft one at the end of the first round.
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