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Offline earthquake  
#1 Posted : Sunday, January 20, 2013 7:37:55 PM(UTC)
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I thought this was interesting.

2007, 13-3, lost in playoffs to superbowl winner
2008, 6-10, transitional year
2009, 11-5, lost in playoffs to previous years NFC superbowl team
2010, 10-6, won superbowl
2011, 15-1, lost in playoffs to superbowl winner
2012, 11-5, lost in playoffs to NFC superbowl team

Since 2007, the packers have either won the superbowl or have lost in the playoffs to the NFC team that went on to play in the superbowl in all but two seasons. In one of those season, they lost to the NFC team who was represented the NFC in the superbowl the year before, and the other season, they had a horrid defense and were lead by a first year QB.

Its easy to sit back and find things to complain about this time of year, and certainly there are a lot of heartbreaking losses on this list, but you have to give GB's front office, coaching staff, etc credit for putting the team in a position to compete year in and year out. That's not something you can say for the majority of teams in the league.

Message modified by user Sunday, January 20, 2013 7:49:43 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline rabidgopher04  
#2 Posted : Sunday, January 20, 2013 9:44:27 PM(UTC)
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To be considered elite they will need to get over the hump and beat these teams. While it's exciting to be competitive each year, and better than what fans of most teams experience, the goal is to win the SB. Anything less is a disappointment.
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Offline dfosterf  
#3 Posted : Sunday, January 20, 2013 9:53:19 PM(UTC)
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13 time world champions. I have witnessed 7 of them.

That list I find unacceptable.

We are THE small market team. We must remember we are in it to win it. WE own this team. It is enough, if we just remind us to hold these corporate fucks to our values. They forget so very fast. Mark Murphy can kma if he can't deliver a SB, notwithstanding his bullshit about atriums and scoreboards and such.

Signed,

OWNER, Green Bay Packers

dfosterf

Love

Message modified by user Sunday, January 20, 2013 10:07:27 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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damn skippy I'm an owner. I currently own a full .00001924537805515393 % of the Green Bay Packers.



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Offline RajiRoar  
#4 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 2:13:17 AM(UTC)
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playoffs are nice, but we have been flat embarrassed the last 2 times..

I'm not too fond of the Cards game either.


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Dec, 11, 2012 - FOREVER!
Offline Zero2Cool  
#5 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 6:01:59 AM(UTC)
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The Packers are not an elite team and I don't think they will be under this regime. I think the coaching staff is too stubborn to make the necessary adjustments to win consistently in the playoffs. They lack a killer instinct to put teams away. And they let inferior teams hang around and in some cases let them win.

The Packers are a top 10 team in the NFL, but they are not elite. Elite teams don't get embarrassed at home in the playoffs and surely elite teams do not let a QB run for 170+ of his 181 before even once laying a hand on him. To his credit, Dom Capers did try to contain, he did try a spy (three actually at different times) and he just couldn't stop him.

I went into the last few seasons with hopes of a Super Bowl contention ... now ... I'm thankful for the wins, the division championships but have realized Aaron Rodgers no longer respects his coach and the team is drifting away.

There needs to be changes and the changes needed are against the grain the Packers have exhibited over Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy's careers with the Packers.

Sit back, enjoy the division championships while they last.
"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." - Nikola Tesla

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Offline rabidgopher04  
#6 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 8:00:56 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
The Packers are not an elite team and I don't think they will be under this regime. I think the coaching staff is too stubborn to make the necessary adjustments to win consistently in the playoffs. They lack a killer instinct to put teams away. And they let inferior teams hang around and in some cases let them win.

The Packers are a top 10 team in the NFL, but they are not elite. Elite teams don't get embarrassed at home in the playoffs and surely elite teams do not let a QB run for 170+ of his 181 before even once laying a hand on him. To his credit, Dom Capers did try to contain, he did try a spy (three actually at different times) and he just couldn't stop him.

I went into the last few seasons with hopes of a Super Bowl contention ... now ... I'm thankful for the wins, the division championships but have realized Aaron Rodgers no longer respects his coach and the team is drifting away.

There needs to be changes and the changes needed are against the grain the Packers have exhibited over Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy's careers with the Packers.

Sit back, enjoy the division championships while they last.


Interesting sentiment. I know people on this board were praising MM's killer instinct and the genius of Ted Thompson when we won the Super Bowl. Would you say that is an anomaly? Are you also suggesting that Mike McCarthy needs to go?

What evidence do you have the ARod no longer respects his coach? This is the first I have heard that contention. Not trying to flame, just want to understand your perspective.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#7 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 8:13:02 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: rabidgopher04 Go to Quoted Post
Interesting sentiment. I know people on this board were praising MM's killer instinct and the genius of Ted Thompson when we won the Super Bowl. Would you say that is an anomaly? Are you also suggesting that Mike McCarthy needs to go?

What evidence do you have the ARod no longer respects his coach? This is the first I have heard that contention. Not trying to flame, just want to understand your perspective.


Dec 17th 2012, Aaron Rodgers says "Just not a very intelligent call at that point in the game." regarding the fake punt while leading by only 8 points late in the game.

Remember Aaron Rodgers jumping and yelling in the face of Mike McCarthy after he threw the red flag for a review on a play that is automatically reviewed?

Some will say oh that is just his passion or hey at least he is honest. Fact of the matter, you can be honest and show passion without disrespecting your coach.

There have been other things he's done and said on his weekly radio show that indicate he either does not like him, or respect him or perhaps both.


Folks can continue to make excuses and laugh at things like this, but you, me or someone else does these things, or gets bent out of shape over losing a card game ... nearly all will point to them as flaws in character, where when it's Aaron Rodgers ... we hear "oh he is SUCH a competitor!!"




Edit, forgot to address your McCarthy comments. If 2013 resembles 2012 or 2011 in the playoffs, HE or the defensive coordinator need to be changed. 2010 was an anomaly, yes. I loved every bit of it too! But 2009, 2011 and 2012 ended quite similarly and little has been done to ensure it won't happen again.

Message modified by user Monday, January 21, 2013 8:29:50 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline Porforis  
#8 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 8:24:40 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: RajiRoar Go to Quoted Post
playoffs are nice, but we have been flat embarrassed the last 2 times..

I'm not too fond of the Cards game either.


That. It's one thing to lose by a touchdown or two in a tough game with an eventual super bowl winner, but the last two times this happened (if you assume SF is going to win it all this year) it's been flat-out ugly. Cardinals game was ugly too, but at least it was ugly on both sides.

I know every team will be disappointed somewhat if they don't win it all and we should be somewhat proud that we're perennial contenders, but it would be a massive disappointment if we didn't get another SB victory or even reach the SB again in the next 5 years or so. So while it's not the end of the world that we didn't make it to the big game this year and it was nice to at least win ONE postseason game unlike last year, at some point this team needs to be able to squeak out big games against a top 3 team when it really matters. Because if you want to be #1, you need to be able to beat everyone else.
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Offline earthquake  
#9 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 10:12:32 AM(UTC)
earthquake

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If the Packer's aren't elite in the last 5-6 years, who is?

The Patriots? Sure they get to the playoffs almost every year, and have been to the superbowl twice, but they haven't won it since 2004.
The Steelers? They haven't won the SB since 2008, and have not been a good team since losing to GB in 2010.
The Giants? They have been largely inconsistent missing the playoffs 3 times in the same time frame, despite two superbowl wins.
The Ravens? They've been at the cusp for seemingly the last decade, only now getting over the hump after their SB win following the 2000 season.
The Colts? A SB win over a Rex Grossman lead bears team does not make anyone elite.

As fans of the greatest franchise in the league its awesome to have high expectations, but at some point you have to be realistic as well.

Who are these mythical "elite" teams if GB isn't one of them? They don't exist, that's the reality. If anyone doesn't think the packers have been elite over the last 5-6 years, give me your list of teams that have been better.

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Offline Porforis  
#10 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 10:20:00 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: earthquake Go to Quoted Post
If the Packer's aren't elite in the last 5-6 years, who is?

The Patriots? Sure they get to the playoffs almost every year, and have been to the superbowl twice, but they haven't won it since 2004.
The Steelers? They haven't won the SB since 2005, and have not been a good team since losing to GB in 2010.
The Giants? They have been largely inconsistent missing the playoffs 3 times in the same time frame, despite two superbowl wins.
The Ravens? They've been at the cusp for seemingly the last decade, only now getting over the hump after their SB win following the 2000 season.
The Colts? A SB win over a Rex Grossman lead bears team does not make anyone elite.

As fans of the greatest franchise in the league its awesome to have high expectations, but at some point you have to be realistic as well.

Who are these mythical "elite" teams if GB isn't one of them? They don't exist, that's the reality. If anyone doesn't think the packers have been elite over the last 5-6 years, give me your list of teams that have been better.


It really depends on your definition of "elite". In my mind, that says top 3. Nobody's been top 3 most of the last 5 years except MAYBE the Patriots. That's just the nature of the league, and parity is part of what makes the NFL great.

Would you rather have the Packers make the postseason 10 of the next 10 years, winning an average of 2 games per postseason, or get to the postseason 6 times in the next 10 years and win it all twice? I'm not saying that I don't appreciate what we have or that we're perennially a top 5 team or very close to it, but in the end what matters are super bowls. If we don't win anything in the next 5 years or so and always hover around the top 5 in the league, are we really elite or just very good?
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Offline Rockmolder  
#11 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 10:29:53 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: earthquake Go to Quoted Post
The Steelers? They haven't won the SB since 2005, and have not been a good team since losing to GB in 2010.


I'm pretty sure the Steelers beat the Cardinals after the 2008 season in SB XLIII.

Originally Posted by: Porforis Go to Quoted Post
It really depends on your definition of "elite". In my mind, that says top 3. Nobody's been top 3 most of the last 5 years except MAYBE the Patriots. That's just the nature of the league, and parity is part of what makes the NFL great.

Would you rather have the Packers make the postseason 10 of the next 10 years, winning an average of 2 games per postseason, or get to the postseason 6 times in the next 10 years and win it all twice? I'm not saying that I don't appreciate what we have or that we're perennially a top 5 team or very close to it, but in the end what matters are super bowls. If we don't win anything in the next 5 years or so and always hover around the top 5 in the league, are we really elite or just very good?


We've recently won a Super Bowl and we're constantly in contention. That would make us elite in my eyes.

It depends on how you label elite, I guess, but behind the Patriots there aren't a whole lot of teams that come close to what we've been doing the last few years.

And looking at it more recently, like earthquake said, the Pats haven't done a whole lot in the SB winning department as of late, either.

I'd say we're elite. I'd say the Pats are elite. If we're just good, though, what would that make the rest of the league?
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Offline earthquake  
#12 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 10:33:51 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Porforis Go to Quoted Post
It really depends on your definition of "elite". In my mind, that says top 3. Nobody's been top 3 most of the last 5 years except MAYBE the Patriots. That's just the nature of the league, and parity is part of what makes the NFL great.


To me, elite is relative to the other teams in the league, not some theoretical standards that nobody meets.

Quote:

Would you rather have the Packers make the postseason 10 of the next 10 years, winning an average of 2 games per postseason, or get to the postseason 6 times in the next 10 years and win it all twice? I'm not saying that I don't appreciate what we have or that we're perennially a top 5 team or very close to it, but in the end what matters are super bowls. If we don't win anything in the next 5 years or so and always hover around the top 5 in the league, are we really elite or just very good?


Oh absolutely, I would rather GB make the playoffs 3 times and win the SB each time than make it 10 times in the next 10 years with no SB wins. No question. I would take the Giant's 2 SB wins in the last 5 years over GB's extra playoff appearances as well. My point is that every team that you would reasonably consider elite has its warts, just like GB.


Originally Posted by: Rockmolder Go to Quoted Post
I'm pretty sure the Steelers beat the Cardinals after the 2008 season in SB XLIII.


Thanks for catching that, dumb mistake on my part.
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Offline Porforis  
#13 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 10:52:47 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: earthquake Go to Quoted Post
To me, elite is relative to the other teams in the league, not some theoretical standards that nobody meets


You set the timeframe, the fact that no single team's going to be consistently elite over a 10 year period doesn't mean that my definition of "elite" is invalid (not to say that you were saying it was). You defined elite by using elite in the definition, which doesn't really explain things well. So would you say top 5? Top 7? Some other metric? Top 3 was just my opinion, just curious about yours. My GUESS is that most people would define it as top 5, admittedly my own standard is pretty stringent.

Quote:
Oh absolutely, I would rather GB make the playoffs 3 times and win the SB each time than make it 10 times in the next 10 years with no SB wins. No question. I would take the Giant's 2 SB wins in the last 5 years over GB's extra playoff appearances as well. My point is that every team that you would reasonably consider elite has its warts, just like GB.


There we agree, and I also agree that it's easy to find things to bitch about this time of year. We're spoiled rotten at QB, top 5 in receiving targets, and pretty good at CB with an elite LB and arguably punter. All things considered we're very lucky.

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Offline gbguy20  
#14 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 11:39:47 AM(UTC)
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What we need is for aaron rodgers to tell mccarthy to stop calling plays and just let him be peyton manning. then we need to beat the quick throws into aaron's head.
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Offline Porforis  
#15 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 11:53:40 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: gbguy20 Go to Quoted Post
What we need is for aaron rodgers to tell mccarthy to stop calling plays and just let him be peyton manning. then we need to beat the quick throws into aaron's head.


If it weren't for McCarthy's excellent challenge record I'd make a joke about letting Jordy Nelson throw the flags for him.
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Offline play2win  
#16 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 12:05:16 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
The Packers are not an elite team and I don't think they will be under this regime. I think the coaching staff is too stubborn to make the necessary adjustments to win consistently in the playoffs. They lack a killer instinct to put teams away. And they let inferior teams hang around and in some cases let them win.

The Packers are a top 10 team in the NFL, but they are not elite. Elite teams don't get embarrassed at home in the playoffs and surely elite teams do not let a QB run for 170+ of his 181 before even once laying a hand on him. To his credit, Dom Capers did try to contain, he did try a spy (three actually at different times) and he just couldn't stop him.

I went into the last few seasons with hopes of a Super Bowl contention ... now ... I'm thankful for the wins, the division championships but have realized Aaron Rodgers no longer respects his coach and the team is drifting away.

There needs to be changes and the changes needed are against the grain the Packers have exhibited over Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy's careers with the Packers.

Sit back, enjoy the division championships while they last.


I appreciate your sentiment Zero2Cool. I feel much the same.

I would put them in the top tier of the NFL. Are they "elite" now? No. They've shown themselves to not be competitive with the very best in the league. But, they are close. To me, the Packers lost their "elite" card last year in losing at home to the Giants. It should have never happened.

As a "team," responsibility for our demise and success rests on management first, then trickles down. We've got a decent team, but not a great one that rolls over the competition. SF has that now. No one else seems to have that at this moment. Ravens? We'll have to see, but if they win it all over SF, I will be surprised. I do not consider them the top team in the NFL, but they are close, behind only SF and maybe SEA.

Are the NYG elite? I would consider them to be so, but they didn't even make the playoffs. They've probably suffered the same personnel, coaching, and player gaffes that we did along the way this year. Last year was great until we let up in KC. Why did we do that?

This really points to "killer instinct" and the lack thereof in GB. We don't have it in the front office, clearly, as Ted Thompson is forever leaving his team thin at positions of need, counting on rookie players to perform like Pro Bowl talents. We don't have it in the coaching department, because we are too often unprepared, and too often fail to adjust to an opponent's strengths. We don't have it on the player side with enough consistency. How does one of our top talents, Tramon Williams, not perform better when all the chips are on the table? I was really disappointed in his overall play this season and expected more from him. He is also one of our top paid players. IMO, this is an example of a player not performing with a killer instinct. He played way too soft. Finley must get a mention here as well. You can't just show up in a few games. He had so many missed blocks, whiffs. Took him half a season just to get on the same page with his QB. Greg Jennings seemed to be pouting through most of his last year in a GB uniform. What the hell? Is THAT what he gets paid for? We know better. Raji? I kind of expected him to do more too.

Blame can be assigned all the way down the line. And it is the WHOLE line of personnel that is responsible for our current mess. Thompson needs to get a set and start making some bold moves to better the personnel on his team. There is more to building a team than the draft.

McCarthy has to get a set and start coaching to win, especially the big games. Playing down to the level of lesser teams is inexcusable. Laying down to superior teams even moreso. How are his players often taking the field looking unprepared? 181 yds rushing by a QB? Not to mention another 100 by their RB? Unacceptable. Dom Capers can try to spy Kaepernick with my grandma, but that isn't going to work either. Seems Ted left our D way too thin, in spite of 6 draftees on that side of the ball.

Our players need to get a set and put themselves in a position where they are competitive, game in and game out, with the best teams in the league. Play their best. No mailing it in. Not for a single play.

I would add only one thing, and that is how do we recapture a home field advantage in Green Bay? Something has been lost. Is the venue itself too friendly to opposing teams? Seems so. It has gone so far the other way, that it is almost a disadvantage. Something has to change there as well, if we want to be contenders, elite.
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Offline doddpower  
#17 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 12:47:41 PM(UTC)
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The Packers are an "elite" team by most peoples standards, and even if they aren't as of this moment, they are very, very close. The Patriots are almost unanimously considered elite, but they just got beat down by the Ravens. Does that mean they are no longer elite? No, not really, they just had a bad day against a hot team that player very well. It happens. Are the Falcons elite? If not they are on the brink too, and the Packers are every bit as talented personnel wise as they are (although they do have much better coaching). The 49'ers are elite, but they have personnel like no other team in the NFL has. They had several mediocre or losing seasons which afforded them higher draft picks to stock talent and they did a good job of doing so. Even with more talent than most teams, it took the right set of coaches to utilize it the past two seasons. Make no mistake, the 49'er's quantity of talent is rare, especially mixed with such great coaching. Now that their team is winning, they will have late draft picks and their players and staff will start being picked apart for other jobs just like every other great team, and it will be a great challenge for them to maintain their success (I'm not saying they won't, but it's going to be incredibly difficult to maintain that type of talent). They have also been very fortunate the past two seasons in staying remarkably healthy. How that is the case, I really don't know. It's obviously a lot to do with luck, but it seems there would have to be at least a little something more to it. Either way, health plays a big factor in their success and they have been very healthy over the past two seasons relative to the Packers (and most other teams). This season alone, the Packers were without their last three first round draft picks for a good part of the season and playoffs, not to mention many key injuries elsewhere. It happens, and for the most part, I think the team responded well to most the injuries. Imagine the 49'er's without two of their elite offensive linemen (Mike Iupati and Anthony Davis) and Aldon Smith (or any other combination of recent 1st round picks). It would likely substantially affect them. The Ravens are loaded with some of the best talent in the league and have great coaching. They are also riding the emotional wave of a one-of-a-kind player in Ray Lewis. His influence cannot be overstated. Ray Rice said after the game "This is all for Ray [Lewis]. We're doing this all for him." I understand that's likely an overstatement, but still, a rare player like that can make a whole team play better. He won't be around after this season, and Ed Reed is nearing the end of his career. At that point, I think the Packers can compete with them so long as the Packers coaches were disciplined.

The Packers just need to get healthy, add a few pieces, and their Super Bowl chances will be almost as good as any other team. One thing that I think needs some serious improvement is offensive balance. The defense will be OK if they can stay somewhat healthy, players continue to develop, and a few more pieces are added this off season. However, the offense has to consistently find more balance and a lot of the blame for that can be placed on Mike McCarthy. Aaron Rodgers needs more help. He is likely the best QB in the league, but he still can't do it all himself. They were able to maintain some nice balance at times, but they too quickly got away from it. McCarthy has to have more discipline than that, just like the 49'er's did in the 2013 NFC Championship game.

A great off season (draft and free agency), player development, and better coaching will put the Packers right back in contention for a Super Bowl. All of those things are achievable, and I expect that to happen. Are they unquestionable favorites? No, but they don't have to be to be Champions.
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#18 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 12:57:24 PM(UTC)
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I would have to say they are an Elite team. The base of this team, is the ability to win the division and make the playoffs each year. That is really what you hope for in a team. When you have that, it only takes a couple things to fall right for the elite to become SB Champs. The 2010 SB team, wasn't any more talented, or better than the last two years. They just had some things fall into place where the others didn't.

Barring injuries, the team is legitimately 2 players away from being dominant. One Olineman, and one on the defensive front that can force pressure. We were the 5th youngest team, and our youth has experience most teams don't.
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Offline rabidgopher04  
#19 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 1:42:28 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
Barring injuries, the team is legitimately 2 players away from being dominant. One Olineman, and one on the defensive front that can force pressure. We were the 5th youngest team, and our youth has experience most teams don't.


I would like to see Ted do something other than nothing to address the D-line. I would like to see him go after a free agent. There's a few good ones out there that could make even a slight difference for this team.

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Offline play2win  
#20 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 1:43:17 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
I would have to say they are an Elite team. The base of this team, is the ability to win the division and make the playoffs each year. That is really what you hope for in a team. When you have that, it only takes a couple things to fall right for the elite to become SB Champs. The 2010 SB team, wasn't any more talented, or better than the last two years. They just had some things fall into place where the others didn't.

Barring injuries, the team is legitimately 2 players away from being dominant. One O lineman, and one on the defensive front that can force pressure. We were the 5th youngest team, and our youth has experience most teams don't.


Oh no. I disagree on the talent end (not to be argumentative at all, but I think this is a common misconception). The 2010 team was FAR more talented. Cullen Jenkins, Nick Collins, Des Bishop, Scott Wells, Chad Clifton, Darren College. Woodson in his prime. Howard Green.

Games are won and lost in the trenches. We've been losing some really big games in the trenches since that SB win. Our DL was Raji, Pickett and Jenkins... with Howard Green as a backup? We had Wilson then too! That's big. We've replaced Jenkins and Green with what exactly? Our OL was also big, and experienced. They weren't the best, but they were big and experienced, and had played together a long time. Who have we replaced those veteran starters with?

We've had nothing close on either line since.

Seems we've lost quite a bit of talent, especially when you throw Nick Collins in there, along with the decline of Woodson through age and injury, and the loss of Bish to injury.

if Ted Thompson wants to continue his draft and develop strategy, I guess we have to ask, will Rodgers get an opportunity to win another SB? It is a team game, and you have to have the talent across the board. I appreciate how good the overall depth of his team is, but it is severely lacking in blue chip starters on both lines. To me, we have 2. Sitton, and Pickett. Raji has regressed himself out of that category. ZERO sacks? Really? Not one?
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#21 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 2:11:27 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: rabidgopher04 Go to Quoted Post
I would like to see Ted do something other than nothing to address the D-line. I would like to see him go after a free agent. There's a few good ones out there that could make even a slight difference for this team.


I wouldn't say he had done far from nothing. He has drafted to build the Dline, Neal,Wilson,Worthy,Daniels. I'm never against getting a FA, as long as the value is right. It is to easy to end up hurting the team by signing the wrong FA at to high a price.


Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Oh no. I disagree on the talent end (not to be argumentative at all, but I think this is a common misconception). The 2010 team was FAR more talented. Cullen Jenkins, Nick Collins, Des Bishop, Scott Wells, Chad Clifton, Darren College. Woodson in his prime. Howard Green.

Games are won and lost in the trenches. We've been losing some really big games in the trenches since that SB win. Our DL was Raji, Pickett and Jenkins... with Howard Green as a backup? We had Wilson then too! That's big. We've replaced Jenkins and Green with what exactly? Our OL was also big, and experienced. They weren't the best, but they were big and experienced, and had played together a long time. Who have we replaced those veteran starters with?

We've had nothing close on either line since.

Seems we've lost quite a bit of talent, especially when you throw Nick Collins in there, along with the decline of Woodson through age and injury, and the loss of Bish to injury.

if Ted Thompson wants to continue his draft and develop strategy, I guess we have to ask, will Rodgers get an opportunity to win another SB? It is a team game, and you have to have the talent across the board. I appreciate how good the overall depth of his team is, but it is severely lacking in blue chip starters on both lines. To me, we have 2. Sitton, and Pickett. Raji has regressed himself out of that category. ZERO sacks? Really? Not one?



If you remember back to 2010, Jenkins missed the final 4 games and was very limited through the playoffs and while out, the front 7 didn't drop in production, Raji was a rookie and didn't come on until late in the season. Yeah, Nick was a loss, but the combination of Woodson and Burnett, is as good as Collins and Peprah. Shields coming on, and now with Hayward able to fill in the slot as well. Bishop wasn't even a starter until injury, and sorry, but he is not a great player. I'd take Brad Jones over Bishop at ILB. Clifton was a shell of what he once was hell Woodson today is more of his old self than Cliffy was in 2010. Bulaga was a rookie

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Offline Rios39  
#22 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 2:22:52 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Oh no. I disagree on the talent end (not to be argumentative at all, but I think this is a common misconception). The 2010 team was FAR more talented. Cullen Jenkins, Nick Collins, Des Bishop, Scott Wells, Chad Clifton, Darren College. Woodson in his prime. Howard Green.

Games are won and lost in the trenches. We've been losing some really big games in the trenches since that SB win. Our DL was Raji, Pickett and Jenkins... with Howard Green as a backup? We had Wilson then too! That's big. We've replaced Jenkins and Green with what exactly? Our OL was also big, and experienced. They weren't the best, but they were big and experienced, and had played together a long time. Who have we replaced those veteran starters with?

We've had nothing close on either line since.

Seems we've lost quite a bit of talent, especially when you throw Nick Collins in there, along with the decline of Woodson through age and injury, and the loss of Bish to injury.

if Ted Thompson wants to continue his draft and develop strategy, I guess we have to ask, will Rodgers get an opportunity to win another SB? It is a team game, and you have to have the talent across the board. I appreciate how good the overall depth of his team is, but it is severely lacking in blue chip starters on both lines. To me, we have 2. Sitton, and Pickett. Raji has regressed himself out of that category. ZERO sacks? Really? Not one?



A lot of nose tackles don't record any sacks in a season it's not really their job. He's still game planned for so he's still a legit player. 2 Players in the front 7 the opponents plan to stop, Matthews and Raji, they'll let the rest beat them. That needs to be addressed this year. You may say Bishop is impact enough at the MLB to enter a teams game plan.
blank
Offline play2win  
#23 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 2:33:59 PM(UTC)
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I said Raji regressed. I know his primary job as a NT is to occupy blockers. But he went from 1 sack in 2009 to 6.5 sacks in 2010 to 3 sacks in 2011 to ZERO in 2012.

Des Bishop is awesome at MLB. Had 103 combined tackles, 3 sacks, 2 FFs and an INT in 2010 - add another 26 tackles, a sack, a FF and 2 FRs in the playoffs that year. Had 115 combined tackles last year with 5 sacks and 2 FFs.
Offline yooperfan  
#24 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 2:35:31 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: rabidgopher04 Go to Quoted Post
I would like to see Ted do something other than nothing to address the D-line. I would like to see him go after a free agent. There's a few good ones out there that could make even a slight difference for this team.



Most of us know that ain't gonna happen unless it's another Howard Green type that comes cheap.

Offline play2win  
#25 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 2:44:49 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: yooperfan Go to Quoted Post
Most of us know that ain't gonna happen unless it's another Howard Green type that comes cheap.



That's part of the problem. We've got so much dough tied into players who just aren't playing up to their contracts. Woodson. Hawk. Finley. Tramon Williams ( I like Tramon, but I don't think he played all out this past season). Add to that a GM who doesn't believe in adding good, solid, veteran talent via FA or trade...

The whole mindset up there has got to change. Where is our toughness?
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