Change is Coming PACKERSHOME is going to be 10 years old later this season and for us to have another 10 years, things will have to change. Read Change is Coming for current issues that will be resolved.
Green Bay Packers Forum

Welcome to your Green Bay Packers Online Community!

Since 2006, PackersHome has been providing a unique experience for fans.
Your participation is greatly anticipated!
Login or Register.
5 Pages<12345>
Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#21 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 2:11:27 PM(UTC)
Rank: Veteran Member

Joined: 9/26/2008(UTC)
Applause Given: 21
Applause Received: 769
rabidgopher04 said: Go to Quoted Post
I would like to see Ted do something other than nothing to address the D-line. I would like to see him go after a free agent. There's a few good ones out there that could make even a slight difference for this team.


I wouldn't say he had done far from nothing. He has drafted to build the Dline, Neal,Wilson,Worthy,Daniels. I'm never against getting a FA, as long as the value is right. It is to easy to end up hurting the team by signing the wrong FA at to high a price.


play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
Oh no. I disagree on the talent end (not to be argumentative at all, but I think this is a common misconception). The 2010 team was FAR more talented. Cullen Jenkins, Nick Collins, Des Bishop, Scott Wells, Chad Clifton, Darren College. Woodson in his prime. Howard Green.

Games are won and lost in the trenches. We've been losing some really big games in the trenches since that SB win. Our DL was Raji, Pickett and Jenkins... with Howard Green as a backup? We had Wilson then too! That's big. We've replaced Jenkins and Green with what exactly? Our OL was also big, and experienced. They weren't the best, but they were big and experienced, and had played together a long time. Who have we replaced those veteran starters with?

We've had nothing close on either line since.

Seems we've lost quite a bit of talent, especially when you throw Nick Collins in there, along with the decline of Woodson through age and injury, and the loss of Bish to injury.

if Ted Thompson wants to continue his draft and develop strategy, I guess we have to ask, will Rodgers get an opportunity to win another SB? It is a team game, and you have to have the talent across the board. I appreciate how good the overall depth of his team is, but it is severely lacking in blue chip starters on both lines. To me, we have 2. Sitton, and Pickett. Raji has regressed himself out of that category. ZERO sacks? Really? Not one?



If you remember back to 2010, Jenkins missed the final 4 games and was very limited through the playoffs and while out, the front 7 didn't drop in production, Raji was a rookie and didn't come on until late in the season. Yeah, Nick was a loss, but the combination of Woodson and Burnett, is as good as Collins and Peprah. Shields coming on, and now with Hayward able to fill in the slot as well. Bishop wasn't even a starter until injury, and sorry, but he is not a great player. I'd take Brad Jones over Bishop at ILB. Clifton was a shell of what he once was hell Woodson today is more of his old self than Cliffy was in 2010. Bulaga was a rookie

Offline Rios39  
#22 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 2:22:52 PM(UTC)
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/9/2008(UTC)
Applause Given: 1
Applause Received: 30
play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
Oh no. I disagree on the talent end (not to be argumentative at all, but I think this is a common misconception). The 2010 team was FAR more talented. Cullen Jenkins, Nick Collins, Des Bishop, Scott Wells, Chad Clifton, Darren College. Woodson in his prime. Howard Green.

Games are won and lost in the trenches. We've been losing some really big games in the trenches since that SB win. Our DL was Raji, Pickett and Jenkins... with Howard Green as a backup? We had Wilson then too! That's big. We've replaced Jenkins and Green with what exactly? Our OL was also big, and experienced. They weren't the best, but they were big and experienced, and had played together a long time. Who have we replaced those veteran starters with?

We've had nothing close on either line since.

Seems we've lost quite a bit of talent, especially when you throw Nick Collins in there, along with the decline of Woodson through age and injury, and the loss of Bish to injury.

if Ted Thompson wants to continue his draft and develop strategy, I guess we have to ask, will Rodgers get an opportunity to win another SB? It is a team game, and you have to have the talent across the board. I appreciate how good the overall depth of his team is, but it is severely lacking in blue chip starters on both lines. To me, we have 2. Sitton, and Pickett. Raji has regressed himself out of that category. ZERO sacks? Really? Not one?



A lot of nose tackles don't record any sacks in a season it's not really their job. He's still game planned for so he's still a legit player. 2 Players in the front 7 the opponents plan to stop, Matthews and Raji, they'll let the rest beat them. That needs to be addressed this year. You may say Bishop is impact enough at the MLB to enter a teams game plan.
Offline play2win  
#23 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 2:33:59 PM(UTC)
Rank: Registered

United States
Joined: 3/29/2012(UTC)
Location: Milwaukee
Applause Given: 1,076
Applause Received: 724
I said Raji regressed. I know his primary job as a NT is to occupy blockers. But he went from 1 sack in 2009 to 6.5 sacks in 2010 to 3 sacks in 2011 to ZERO in 2012.

Des Bishop is awesome at MLB. Had 103 combined tackles, 3 sacks, 2 FFs and an INT in 2010 - add another 26 tackles, a sack, a FF and 2 FRs in the playoffs that year. Had 115 combined tackles last year with 5 sacks and 2 FFs.
Offline yooperfan  
#24 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 2:35:31 PM(UTC)
Rank: Veteran Member

PackersHome NFL Pick'em - Silver: 2014

Joined: 8/7/2008(UTC)
Location: Ishpeming Michigan
Applause Given: 1,211
Applause Received: 512
rabidgopher04 said: Go to Quoted Post
I would like to see Ted do something other than nothing to address the D-line. I would like to see him go after a free agent. There's a few good ones out there that could make even a slight difference for this team.



Most of us know that ain't gonna happen unless it's another Howard Green type that comes cheap.

Offline play2win  
#25 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 2:44:49 PM(UTC)
Rank: Registered

United States
Joined: 3/29/2012(UTC)
Location: Milwaukee
Applause Given: 1,076
Applause Received: 724
yooperfan said: Go to Quoted Post
Most of us know that ain't gonna happen unless it's another Howard Green type that comes cheap.



That's part of the problem. We've got so much dough tied into players who just aren't playing up to their contracts. Woodson. Hawk. Finley. Tramon Williams ( I like Tramon, but I don't think he played all out this past season). Add to that a GM who doesn't believe in adding good, solid, veteran talent via FA or trade...

The whole mindset up there has got to change. Where is our toughness?
Offline yooperfan  
#26 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 2:53:45 PM(UTC)
Rank: Veteran Member

PackersHome NFL Pick'em - Silver: 2014

Joined: 8/7/2008(UTC)
Location: Ishpeming Michigan
Applause Given: 1,211
Applause Received: 512
play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
I appreciate your sentiment Zero2Cool. I feel much the same.

I would put them in the top tier of the NFL. Are they "elite" now? No. They've shown themselves to not be competitive with the very best in the league. But, they are close. To me, the Packers lost their "elite" card last year in losing at home to the Giants. It should have never happened.

As a "team," responsibility for our demise and success rests on management first, then trickles down. We've got a decent team, but not a great one that rolls over the competition. SF has that now. No one else seems to have that at this moment. Ravens? We'll have to see, but if they win it all over SF, I will be surprised. I do not consider them the top team in the NFL, but they are close, behind only SF and maybe SEA.

Are the NYG elite? I would consider them to be so, but they didn't even make the playoffs. They've probably suffered the same personnel, coaching, and player gaffes that we did along the way this year. Last year was great until we let up in KC. Why did we do that?

This really points to "killer instinct" and the lack thereof in GB. We don't have it in the front office, clearly, as Ted Thompson is forever leaving his team thin at positions of need, counting on rookie players to perform like Pro Bowl talents. We don't have it in the coaching department, because we are too often unprepared, and too often fail to adjust to an opponent's strengths. We don't have it on the player side with enough consistency. How does one of our top talents, Tramon Williams, not perform better when all the chips are on the table? I was really disappointed in his overall play this season and expected more from him. He is also one of our top paid players. IMO, this is an example of a player not performing with a killer instinct. He played way too soft. Finley must get a mention here as well. You can't just show up in a few games. He had so many missed blocks, whiffs. Took him half a season just to get on the same page with his QB. Greg Jennings seemed to be pouting through most of his last year in a GB uniform. What the hell? Is THAT what he gets paid for? We know better. Raji? I kind of expected him to do more too.

Blame can be assigned all the way down the line. And it is the WHOLE line of personnel that is responsible for our current mess. Thompson needs to get a set and start making some bold moves to better the personnel on his team. There is more to building a team than the draft.

McCarthy has to get a set and start coaching to win, especially the big games. Playing down to the level of lesser teams is inexcusable. Laying down to superior teams even moreso. How are his players often taking the field looking unprepared? 181 yds rushing by a QB? Not to mention another 100 by their RB? Unacceptable. Dom Capers can try to spy Kaepernick with my grandma, but that isn't going to work either. Seems Ted left our D way too thin, in spite of 6 draftees on that side of the ball.

Our players need to get a set and put themselves in a position where they are competitive, game in and game out, with the best teams in the league. Play their best. No mailing it in. Not for a single play.

I would add only one thing, and that is how do we recapture a home field advantage in Green Bay? Something has been lost. Is the venue itself too friendly to opposing teams? Seems so. It has gone so far the other way, that it is almost a disadvantage. Something has to change there as well, if we want to be contenders, elite.


play2win, this is the best description of the state the Green Bay Packers that I have read to date.
Nice job!

Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#27 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 2:55:25 PM(UTC)
Rank: Veteran Member

Joined: 9/26/2008(UTC)
Applause Given: 21
Applause Received: 769
play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
That's part of the problem. We've got so much dough tied into players who just aren't playing up to their contracts. Woodson. Hawk. Finley. Tramon Williams ( I like Tramon, but I don't think he played all out this past season). Add to that a GM who doesn't believe in adding good, solid, veteran talent via FA or trade...

The whole mindset up there has got to change. Where is our toughness?


Who should we have signed?

play2win said:
Des Bishop is awesome at MLB. Had 103 combined tackles, 3 sacks, 2 FFs and an INT in 2010 - add another 26 tackles, a sack, a FF and 2 FRs in the playoffs that year. Had 115 combined tackles last year with 5 sacks and 2 FFs.


FYI. Jones and Smith this year combined, matched Bishop.
Offline play2win  
#28 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 3:20:29 PM(UTC)
Rank: Registered

United States
Joined: 3/29/2012(UTC)
Location: Milwaukee
Applause Given: 1,076
Applause Received: 724
PackFanWithTwins said: Go to Quoted Post
Who should we have signed?


I think as a GM, I would have traded Jennings for something in return last year.

As for who we should have signed in FA to shore up our DL, it would be revisionist history for me to choose from a listing of players that hit last year's market. So, here's the list:

(Aside from Mario Williams)

Jason Jones (TEN) - DT - When healthy, Jason Jones is one of the league's better interior pass rushers. He has an explosive first step in getting upfield and disrupting a quarterback's ability to step up into a clean pocket. However, last year the Titans moved him out to defensive end, where he struggled to match his productivity from years past. If that's where they expect to play Jones, his value will certainly be greater outside of Tennessee.

Antonio Garay (SD) - NT - Just as quickly as they lost Jamal Williams, the Chargers thought they had replaced him at nose tackle with another Pro Bowl caliber player. However, after a stellar 2010 season, Garay took a slight step backward in 2011. If the Chargers need to enter a bidding war for his services, it's reported they'll bow out rather quickly.

John Abraham (ATL) - DE - The Falcons went out this past offseason to acquire Ray Edwards to improve the pass rush. Though Abraham is aging, he's still easily the Falcons top pass rusher. His production, even on a snap count, can't be easily replaced, but the team still won't pay him the $8 million a year they did in 2011.

Sione Pouha (NYJ) - NT - The Jets aren't in a position with great depth in their front 7 where they can afford to allow productive starters to leave. Securing Pouha should be one of the organization's first objectives before they decide how to improve their roster through external acquisitions.

The rest:
Vonnie Holliday (ARZ) - DE
Kroy Biermann (ATL) - DE
Cory Redding (BAL) - DE
Israel Idonije (CHI) - DE
Victor Adeyanju (CIN) - DE
Frostee Rucker (CIN) - DE
Derrick Harvey (DEN) - DE
Jason Hunter (DEN) - DE
Tim Bulman (HOU) - DE
Jamaal Anderson (IND) - DE
Tyler Brayton (IND) - DE
Jeremy Mincey (JAC) - DE
Matt Roth (JAC) - DE
Wallace Gilberry (KC) - DE
Kendall Langford (MIA) - DE
Phillip Merling (MIA) - DE
Igor Olshansky (MIA) - DE
Mark Anderson (NE) - DE
Andre Carter (NE) - DE
Shaun Ellis (NE) - DE
Eric Moore (NE) - DE
Jeff Charleston (NO) - DE
Turk McBride (NO) - DE
Dave Tollefson (NYG) - DE
Jarvis Moss (OAK) - DE
Trevor Scott (OAK) - DE
Victor Abiamiri (PHI) - DE
Juqua Parker (PHI) - DE
Aaron Smith (PIT) - DE
Raheem Brock (SEA) - DE
Anthony Hargrove (SEA) - DE
Jovan Haye (TB) - DE
Dave Ball (TEN) - DE
William Hayes (TEN) - DE
Adam Carriker (WAS) - DE
Kedric Golston (WAS) - DE
Marcus Benard (CLE) - DE - Restricted
Clifton Geathers (DAL) - DE - Exclusive Rights
Will Tukuafu (SF) - DE - Exclusive Rights
C.J. Ah You (STL) - DE - Restricted
Michael Bennett (TB) - DE - Restricted
Brandon McKinney (BAL) - DT
Ronald Fields (CAR) - DT
Anthony Adams (CHI) - DT
Amobi Okoye (CHI) - DT
Jonathan Fanene (CIN) - DT
Pat Sims (CIN) - DT
Brodrick Bunkley (DEN) - DT
Marcus Thomas (DEN) - DT
Andre Fluellen (DET) - DT
Howard Green (GB) - DT
Eric Foster (IND) - DT
Tommie Harris (IND) - DT
Daniel Muir (IND) - DT
C.J. Mosley (JAC) - DT
Amon Gordon (KC) - DT
Kelly Gregg (KC) - NT
Paul Soliai (MIA) - NT
Fred Evans (MIN) - DT
Letroy Guion (MIN) - DT
Gerard Warren (NE) - DT
Mike Wright (NE) - DT
Aubrayo Franklin (NO) - NT
Rocky Bernard (NYG) - DT
Jimmy Kennedy (NYG) - DT
Shaun Rogers (NO) - DT
Derek Landri (PHI) - DT
Trevor Laws (PHI) - DT
Red Bryant (SEA) - DT
Colin Cole (SEA) - DT
Gary Gibson (STL) - DT
Albert Haynesworth (TB) - DT
Tony Brown (TEN) - DT
Vance Walker (ATL) - DT - Restricted
Ryan McBean (DEN) - DT - Restricted
Sammie Lee Hill (DET) - DT - Restricted
Nate Collins (JAC) - DT - Exclusive Rights
Leger Douzable (JAC) - DT - Restricted
Kyle Love (NE) - DT - Exclusive Rights
Antonio Dixon (PHI) - DT - Restricted
Steve McLendon (PIT) - DT - Exclusive Rights
Clinton McDonald (SEA) - DT - Exclusive Rights
Jermelle Cudjo (STL) - DT - Exclusive Rights
Malcolm Sheppard (TEN) - DT - Exclusive Rights

I'm sure we could have added a veteran presence to our DL to help carry some of the load, much like Howard Green was in 2010. Who knows? Maybe even a real difference maker...

As for OL, anyone look at McKinney sauntering up to the BAL line and think, "why didn't we even try to sign him after he was cut from MIN in 2011, knowing fully Cliffy was done, and we needed a LT?" I mean, that is a quality road grader there... 6-8, 340...
Offline play2win  
#29 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 3:32:12 PM(UTC)
Rank: Registered

United States
Joined: 3/29/2012(UTC)
Location: Milwaukee
Applause Given: 1,076
Applause Received: 724
PackFanWithTwins said: Go to Quoted Post
Who should we have signed?



FYI. Jones and Smith this year combined, matched Bishop.


I saw the games too, and I don't think either played like Desmond Bishop. Bish seems to have a much better nose for the football than either of those guys. That's just my opinion in comparing those players. I can't imagine taking Brad Jones over Bishop. I respect that his play improved this year with the switch inside, but it didn't improve our ILB play over years prior. And I like DJ Smith, but his size seems a bit limiting in the NFL.
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#30 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 3:36:04 PM(UTC)
Rank: Veteran Member

Joined: 9/26/2008(UTC)
Applause Given: 21
Applause Received: 769
At what cost? It isn't difficult to cut and paste a list without actually thinking it out.

Jason Jones, 276lb DE. Would you really want him on the packers when having to pay over 4.5 million
Antonio Garay, 320 NT. How many NT does this team need? And at over 4 million a year, and missed 1/2 the season
Abraham might have worked, but he is a 4-3 DE and would have been out of position at OLB or way undersized at DE. And cost 5+/year.
Rss Feed 
Users browsing this topic
Guest
5 Pages<12345>
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Notification

Icon
Error


Fan Shout
Zero2Cool: thank ya sir
uffda udfa: Best looking site out there!
Zero2Cool: You welcome!
Cheesey: THANK YOU again for all you do.
Cheesey: You do all the work, while some think they don't have to honor your few rules.
Cheesey: Kevin, you KNOW how much I appreciate this site.
uffda udfa: Nope. Too much pressure for them.
Zero2Cool: NFL MVP's don't seem to win the Super Bowl the same year, do they?
Zero2Cool: Panthers played uninspired and predictable, actually (and sadly) reminded me of the Packers. :(
Zero2Cool: Thanks 68md, good to know some notice and appreciate.
Zero2Cool: Holding a different or less than popular view is perfectly fine. You fail to understand this even though I repeatedly tell you. It's annoyin
uffda udfa: Good night, Smokey.
Smokey: good night uffda.
uffda udfa: Wonder how Colts fans feel, and Mr. Irsay?
uffda udfa: Today, anyway.
Smokey: DEFENSE DOES WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS TT !
uffda udfa: Carolina will never be back to a SB under Cam Newton.
uffda udfa: Denver D just dominated the current MVP and the former this year.
uffda udfa: Cam for LVP in the SB. No character.
uffda udfa: Newton is a wuss. MVP? LOL.
uffda udfa: #VonFire
uffda udfa: People who have passion and expectations aren't A words. Accepting less than the best doesn't make you not one either.
uffda udfa: Sorry, Kevin...maybe you called Dakota an A word and not me? Had to be one of us.
uffda udfa: Marshawn Lynch announced his retirement in a cool way via twitter. What could've been in Green Bay, Marshawn!
uffda udfa: It's okay... you called me the "A" word. All because I don't tickle the ears. I get it.
uffda udfa: So someone like Buck deserves privileges because he's a better fan than me due to his flattering opinions?
68md: wet blanket ? He works his ass off to keep the place going for you ?
Smokey: Zero, Why are you such a wet blanket host ? A real SB "Chat" should have been a priority for this site. Wet Blanket strikes again.
Zero2Cool: BTW, I'm not saying you're an asshole. I'm stating a fact, that's all.
Zero2Cool: You don't get it. You confuse right and privilege. Assholes don't deserve privileges. Get it, got it, good.
uffda udfa: Talib playing a Burfict half so far.
uffda udfa: You have an R rated section on a Packers board. I think moving the guys you really don't want rocking the boat to their own forum is a great
uffda udfa: I think the same was likely said at KFAN when it was suggested they have a Packers show. I believe they still have it. I used to produce it
Zero2Cool: Seriously think what you're asking and do so before asking. Unreal.
uffda udfa: Aaron walking gingerly in that SB MVP introduction thing.
Please sign in to use Fan Shout

Road To Super Bowl 50
Sunday, Sep 13 @ 12:00 PM
at Bears
Sunday, Sep 20 @ 7:30 PM
SEAHAWKS
Monday, Sep 28 @ 7:30 PM
CHIEFS
Sunday, Oct 4 @ 3:25 PM
at 49ers
Sunday, Oct 11 @ 12:00 PM
RAMS
Sunday, Oct 18 @ 3:25 PM
CHARGERS
Sunday, Oct 25 @ 12:00 AM
- BYE -
Sunday, Nov 1 @ 7:30 PM
at Broncos
Sunday, Nov 8 @ 12:00 PM
at Panthers
Sunday, Nov 15 @ 12:00 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 22 @ 3:25 PM
at Vikings
Thursday, Nov 26 @ 7:30 PM
BEARS
Thursday, Dec 3 @ 7:25 PM
at Lions
Sunday, Dec 13 @ 3:25 PM
COWBOYS
Sunday, Dec 20 @ 3:05 PM
at Raiders
Sunday, Dec 27 @ 3:25 PM
at Cardinals
Sunday, Jan 3 @ 7:30 PM
VIKINGS

Think About It
Think About It

Recent Topics
4h / Announcements / DakotaT

8h / Green Bay Packers Talk / blueleopard

12h / Green Bay Packers Talk / nerdmann

20h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

9-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / PackFanWithTwins

9-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / FLORIDA PACKER88

9-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / uffda udfa

8-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / PackFanWithTwins

7-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / uffda udfa

7-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / uffda udfa

7-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

7-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / uffda udfa

6-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

6-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / Cheesey

6-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / uffda udfa


Tweeter