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Offline dfosterf  
#31 Posted : Tuesday, August 26, 2008 11:38:57 AM(UTC)
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I don't like this thread, I don't like it at all. Nodak makes far too much sense and I hate it when that happens, especially coming from a Vikings fan. The only response I have to silly threads like this one is... Oh ya, well, I'm gonna go get my big brother... THEN we'll see.
Offline NodakPaul  
#32 Posted : Tuesday, August 26, 2008 12:55:00 PM(UTC)
Rank: Registered

Joined: 8/18/2008(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
no edge on the passing game? Come on, you have tarvaris jackson and who at receiver?


I didn't look at the Packers passing offense versus the Vikings passing offense. Why would I? Those two units are never on the field at the same time.

When I look at the Vikings passing DEFENSE versus the Packers passing OFFENSE, I call it a tie. When I look at the Vikings passing OFFENSE against the Packers passing DEFENSE, I gave the advantage to the Packers.


And what basis can you possibly use to support this? You pass defense has been one of the worst in the league and our pass offense one of the best. If, in fact, this catagory was even close to a tie it would be us losing 34-0 instead of you guys.

You guys have plenty of strengths but pass defense ain't one of 'em and until they prove that not to be true it is what it is. The facts are your DB's do not match up well with our catch and run receivers so I cannot see how in the world you can call this a draw.

The bottom line is if AP breaks loose for big gains we probably lose the game and there is certainly reason to be concerned (for us) that this could happen but our passing offense is going to get the better of the Vikes pass "D".


&lt;sigh&gt; Did you even read the original post? I think I stated my reasons pretty well. Here is that particular section again:
" said: Go to Quoted Post

Vikings Passing Defense vs Packers Passing Offense
Edge: None

For the Pack, Driver and Jennings can be difference makers, and even though Rodgers is new to the starting spot, this is his fourth year in the system. HOwever, the Packers OL is in a bad spot. Not only have they not given the QB any time so far in preseason, Scott Wells was also hampered by a torso injury throughout preseason. If he can't start, expect Spitz to continue to fill in at center. With the extent of Josh Sitton's knee injury still unknown, we could be looking at Barbre and Colledge as the two startign guards this year. If the OL was in better shape, the edge would go to the Packers here. But because of the OL, it is a tie.
On the Vikings side, I am not going to cite Minnesota's last place ranking in total passing yards last year because that stat is skewed by the run defense. Sharper and Madieu Williams are still learning to work with each other, and they haven't been on the field together a lot in the preseason. Griffin is looking better, but still needs some polishing at the CB position. Jared Allen will definitely bring the pressure, and will get at least one sack. The Vikings easily have one of the best DLs in the league, and that should translate into a much better passing defense.


While your pass offense was very good last year, there are several things different this year. I like Rodgers as a QB, but he will not put up the same kind of numbers that Fav-re did last year - especially not in his first NFL start. Your OL has also been hit hard by the injury bug.

As for the Vikings, while our pass defense was poor last year, there are several things different this year. Specifically the addition of a pass rush, which was sorely lacking last year.

I agree that the packers WRs have the edge over the Vikings secondary, especially with M.Williams out. But they are only a part of the passing equation. You also have a green QB behind a suspect OL against the best DL in the league. The advantages and disadvantages to both teams even out rather well.
Offline zombieslayer  
#33 Posted : Tuesday, August 26, 2008 1:07:02 PM(UTC)
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The whole Packers Pass O vs Vikings Pass D rests on our OL vs their DL. Yes, we have better WRs than their DBs. I think Nodak has stated this more than once. But as we saw in the Super Bowl, the threat of a superior WR staff can be minimized by a strong pass rush.

The Giants DBs were average at best and Randy Moss was hands down the best WR in the NFL last year. What happened? The DL never gave Brady enough time to even look for an open receiver.

So this whole argument goes to how our OL fares up against their DL. Our OL is battered. We'll need Wells healthy, and we'll need better blocking by our RBs because you know someone will get through.

I'm guessing the determining factors in this game will be turnovers and the battle of our OL vs their DL. AP is the 2nd best RB in the NFL, but if we can keep him off the field, then we can minimize his threat.
Offline pack_in_black  
#34 Posted : Tuesday, August 26, 2008 1:11:20 PM(UTC)
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" said: Go to Quoted Post



......


And the Packers have lost a key component to their second ranked passing attack from last year. While I think that Rodgers will be a good QB, I don't think he will be able to put up a very good performance against the Vikings. First start ever, nationally televised game, a quarter of the fans still booing him, going against the best DL in the league, and Fav-re's picture printed on every ticket. Lots of pressure...




First, that Favre on the tickets line made me laugh. Since I think I detected humorous intent, I doubt Aaron's gonna be on the sidelines between drives looking at fans' ticket stubs... lol


While I agree he'll show a little response to the pressure, he did fine on MNF's preseason opener, so the national audience thing shouldn't be a big factor, the Lambeau faithful gave him a standing o in his first appearance as a starter, and Mike McCarthy is a good enough coach to call plays to protect him from your admittedly impressive d-line.

Just my two pennies
Offline TheEngineer  
#35 Posted : Tuesday, August 26, 2008 1:34:20 PM(UTC)
Rank: Registered

Joined: 8/8/2008(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post



......


And the Packers have lost a key component to their second ranked passing attack from last year. While I think that Rodgers will be a good QB, I don't think he will be able to put up a very good performance against the Vikings. First start ever, nationally televised game, a quarter of the fans still booing him, going against the best DL in the league, and Fav-re's picture printed on every ticket. Lots of pressure...




First, that Favre on the tickets line made me laugh. Since I think I detected humorous intent, I doubt Aaron's gonna be on the sidelines between drives looking at fans' ticket stubs... lol


While I agree he'll show a little response to the pressure, he did fine on MNF's preseason opener, so the national audience thing shouldn't be a big factor, the Lambeau faithful gave him a standing o in his first appearance as a starter, and Mike McCarthy is a good enough coach to call plays to protect him from your admittedly impressive d-line.

Just my two pennies


I think Aaron has learned something between preseason game 1 and preseason game 4. That's if you try and push too hard to do well and try to make things happen, chances are you're going to get sacked. Just play within yourself and make the quick throws, and he'll be fine.

For this reason I think he'll be less daunted by the the MNF game, and it won't be as big as a factor as it usually is for 1st time starters (who are generally within their first 2 or 3 years - not a 4 year, same offense man like Rodgers).
Offline warhawk  
#36 Posted : Tuesday, August 26, 2008 7:28:37 PM(UTC)
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" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
no edge on the passing game? Come on, you have tarvaris jackson and who at receiver?


I didn't look at the Packers passing offense versus the Vikings passing offense. Why would I? Those two units are never on the field at the same time.

When I look at the Vikings passing DEFENSE versus the Packers passing OFFENSE, I call it a tie. When I look at the Vikings passing OFFENSE against the Packers passing DEFENSE, I gave the advantage to the Packers.


And what basis can you possibly use to support this? You pass defense has been one of the worst in the league and our pass offense one of the best. If, in fact, this catagory was even close to a tie it would be us losing 34-0 instead of you guys.

You guys have plenty of strengths but pass defense ain't one of 'em and until they prove that not to be true it is what it is. The facts are your DB's do not match up well with our catch and run receivers so I cannot see how in the world you can call this a draw.

The bottom line is if AP breaks loose for big gains we probably lose the game and there is certainly reason to be concerned (for us) that this could happen but our passing offense is going to get the better of the Vikes pass "D".


&lt;sigh&gt; Did you even read the original post? I think I stated my reasons pretty well. Here is that particular section again:
" said: Go to Quoted Post

Vikings Passing Defense vs Packers Passing Offense
Edge: None

For the Pack, Driver and Jennings can be difference makers, and even though Rodgers is new to the starting spot, this is his fourth year in the system. HOwever, the Packers OL is in a bad spot. Not only have they not given the QB any time so far in preseason, Scott Wells was also hampered by a torso injury throughout preseason. If he can't start, expect Spitz to continue to fill in at center. With the extent of Josh Sitton's knee injury still unknown, we could be looking at Barbre and Colledge as the two startign guards this year. If the OL was in better shape, the edge would go to the Packers here. But because of the OL, it is a tie.
On the Vikings side, I am not going to cite Minnesota's last place ranking in total passing yards last year because that stat is skewed by the run defense. Sharper and Madieu Williams are still learning to work with each other, and they haven't been on the field together a lot in the preseason. Griffin is looking better, but still needs some polishing at the CB position. Jared Allen will definitely bring the pressure, and will get at least one sack. The Vikings easily have one of the best DLs in the league, and that should translate into a much better passing defense.


While your pass offense was very good last year, there are several things different this year. I like Rodgers as a QB, but he will not put up the same kind of numbers that Fav-re did last year - especially not in his first NFL start. Your OL has also been hit hard by the injury bug.

As for the Vikings, while our pass defense was poor last year, there are several things different this year. Specifically the addition of a pass rush, which was sorely lacking last year.

I agree that the packers WRs have the edge over the Vikings secondary, especially with M.Williams out. But they are only a part of the passing equation. You also have a green QB behind a suspect OL against the best DL in the league. The advantages and disadvantages to both teams even out rather well.


In '05 when we had the top rated pass defense I thought it was a joke because nobody HAD to throw it to beat us. Conversely, I see no justification for a poor pass defense because you stop the run well? What does that have to do with anything other than they should KNOW they opposing teams are going to throw it at them and SHOULD be able then to stop it.

Your same comments could easily have been made last year about how outclassed our young "O" line would be against that "D" front yet we eaked out a 34-0 win.

You also seem to put a lot of eggs in the Jared Allen basket to all of a sudden take a team that was poor at rushing the QB and now they will be good there. Better does not make good enough until that is proven.

I like Ted Thompson because he deals in reality and gets the guys that are needed to really make a team better over pure optimism. The Vikes struck one cord there and that was Allen but as far as TJack, he should be long gone and some guys remotely capable to the days of Moss are sorely needed at receiver. No, an ex-Bear that's never done jack against us does not qualify.

It's no coincidence that the teams hoisting the big trophy at the end all chuck it pretty damn good. You can say what you want about NY and yes they played unbelievable on defense but what won that SB was Eli getting hot those last 7-8 games. He plays same ole, same ole, and NY get's no where near the SB. That's reality.

And if ARod doesn't get it done you can pretty well know we will suck too so that you see that reality is for everyone.
Offline bozz_2006  
#37 Posted : Tuesday, August 26, 2008 8:30:42 PM(UTC)
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well done warhawk. +1
Offline zombieslayer  
#38 Posted : Tuesday, August 26, 2008 10:09:03 PM(UTC)
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" said: Go to Quoted Post
The Vikes struck one cord there and that was Allen but as far as TJack, he should be long gone and some guys remotely capable to the days of Moss are sorely needed at receiver. No, an ex-Bear that's never done jack against us does not qualify.



To beat the Vikings this year is to beat them the same way in '07. Keep AP off the field. How? Get an early lead. Childress will panic and start playing TJack instead of their dynamic running duo and we win.

Things we cannot do:
1) turn the ball over,
2) let anyone get to Aaron.

I don't see the big deal about Berrian. He's an average WR. Not a huge pickup. We keep their running game off the field and force them to pass, we win in a blowout.

I'm always worried about the Vikings every year because on paper, they look absolutely sick. Then the season starts and they implode.

On paper, the Vikings should be in a position to challenge us for the NFC North. But as I've said earlier this year, even without Favre, the NFC North is ours. The Vikings will find a way to screw it all up.

Sorry, Nodak. You know what they say about history.
Offline NodakPaul  
#39 Posted : Tuesday, August 26, 2008 11:57:10 PM(UTC)
Rank: Registered

Joined: 8/18/2008(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post

It's no coincidence that the teams hoisting the big trophy at the end all chuck it pretty damn good.


Yeah, like Brad Johnson when he won with Tampa Bay. Oh wait no... I must have been thinking about Trent Dilfer with the Ravens. No wait, that's not it either... Let's see, the Bears made it to the big game because Grossman played so... good?

Well Manning is great... but for some reason he only has one ring - and that was against the Bears. Fav-re was pretty damn good, but when was the last time he got a ring? The Pats broke Minnesota's record for most points scored in a single season last year. Coincidently neither team got a ring when they did so.

History is riddled with teams who are successful with a great defense but average offense. Having a great passing game is NOT the sole way to a SB birth.
Offline porky88  
#40 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 1:18:17 AM(UTC)
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" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post

It's no coincidence that the teams hoisting the big trophy at the end all chuck it pretty damn good.


Yeah, like Brad Johnson when he won with Tampa Bay. Oh wait no... I must have been thinking about Trent Dilfer with the Ravens. No wait, that's not it either... Let's see, the Bears made it to the big game because Grossman played so... good?

Well Manning is great... but for some reason he only has one ring - and that was against the Bears. Fav-re was pretty damn good, but when was the last time he got a ring? The Pats broke Minnesota's record for most points scored in a single season last year. Coincidently neither team got a ring when they did so.

History is riddled with teams who are successful with a great defense but average offense. Having a great passing game is NOT the sole way to a SB birth.


Wait a second. This isn't the first time I've heard a Viking fan compare their team to those teams but that defense isn't on the level of Baltimore's or Tampa Bay's from those Super Bowl years. Their defensive line maybe but Derrick Brooks or Ray Lewis isn't there.

Tampa Bay had a nice passing game the year they won the Super Bowl. Johnson threw for over 3,000 yards and 22 touchdowns. Also only 6 picks when I looked it up which is amazing. Keyshaun Johnson was a pretty good receiver too something Minnesota really doesn't have.

You strike me as someone who is a realist. Do you think that defense can be like the Ravens? If not then do you think Jackson can have a season like Brad Johnson?

For Minnesota to win the Super Bowl I think one of those things need to happen.
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