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Offline play2win  
#31 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 3:44:38 PM(UTC)
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PackFanWithTwins said: Go to Quoted Post
At what cost? It isn't difficult to cut and paste a list without actually thinking it out.

Jason Jones, 276lb DE. Would you really want him on the packers when having to pay over 4.5 million
Antonio Garay, 320 NT. How many NT does this team need? And at over 4 million a year, and missed 1/2 the season
Abraham might have worked, but he is a 4-3 DE and would have been out of position at OLB or way undersized at DE. And cost 5+/year.


Dude, why you bustin' my balls? I don't have the answers as to "Who." But, I do know we might have tried to add some talent. Hell, I still, to this day, don't know why we cut Merling and Muir. We should have kept them both. That DL we had was way too thin to start the season. And those were both retread players. Did Ted attempt to add a veteran of quality?

As for Abraham... so was Perry! You don't think John Abraham opposite Clay Matthews would have helped this D? Yes, it would have been costly. So is Woodson. Hawk. Williams. Finley.

Sometimes it is costly NOT adding the player.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#32 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 4:55:36 PM(UTC)
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PackFanWithTwins said: Go to Quoted Post
If you remember back to 2010, Jenkins missed the final 4 games and was very limited through the playoffs and while out, the front 7 didn't drop in production, Raji was a rookie and didn't come on until late in the season. Yeah, Nick was a loss, but the combination of Woodson and Burnett, is as good as Collins and Peprah. Shields coming on, and now with Hayward able to fill in the slot as well. Bishop wasn't even a starter until injury, and sorry, but he is not a great player. I'd take Brad Jones over Bishop at ILB. Clifton was a shell of what he once was hell Woodson today is more of his old self than Cliffy was in 2010. Bulaga was a rookie


I remember B.J. Raji being in his second season, not a rookie, in 2010. I don't remember Morgan Burnett playing more than 4 or so games in 2010.

There is no way Charles Woodson and Morgan Burnett together are as good as Nick Collins and Charlie Peprah tandem. Peprah was assignment sure, for the most part and was solid in run support. Neither Burnett, nor Woodson have anything close to Collins' range or speed.



Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#33 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 6:01:43 PM(UTC)
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play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
Dude, why you bustin' my balls? I don't have the answers as to "Who." But, I do know we might have tried to add some talent. Hell, I still, to this day, don't know why we cut Merling and Muir. We should have kept them both. That DL we had was way too thin to start the season. And those were both retread players. Did Ted attempt to add a veteran of quality?

As for Abraham... so was Perry! You don't think John Abraham opposite Clay Matthews would have helped this D? Yes, it would have been costly. So is Woodson. Hawk. Williams. Finley.

Sometimes it is costly NOT adding the player.


Why because it think it is stupid to say. Ted should have gotten somebody. Without a name or names to back it up. Not to mention, I think it is asinine to think Ted, doesn't look at lists of who is available. And I lay odds, that his list have an idea of how much each of them are going to be looking for, and scout and coaches reports on how they would fit the team. I am certain, that Ted does look into players, that we never hear about. Some of them, don't even want to consider GB for what ever reason. Scheme, money or whatever.

Like the talk, Ted should have gotten Lynch. Well, he did try. Just didn't succeed. And there being no guarantee that he would have any more success behind our crappy blocking.

Abraham, I was actually somewhat for bringing him in, again for the right price. But I was worried not about pass rushing, but coverage. Abraham might have been able to make the move when he was young, but he isn't anymore and making that change at his age would be difficult, and close to 6 mil a year to see was a pretty high price.
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gbguy20 on 1/21/2013(UTC)
Offline porky88  
#34 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 6:07:03 PM(UTC)
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earthquake said: Go to Quoted Post
If the Packer's aren't elite in the last 5-6 years, who is?

The Patriots? Sure they get to the playoffs almost every year, and have been to the superbowl twice, but they haven't won it since 2004.
The Steelers? They haven't won the SB since 2008, and have not been a good team since losing to GB in 2010.
The Giants? They have been largely inconsistent missing the playoffs 3 times in the same time frame, despite two superbowl wins.
The Ravens? They've been at the cusp for seemingly the last decade, only now getting over the hump after their SB win following the 2000 season.
The Colts? A SB win over a Rex Grossman lead bears team does not make anyone elite.

As fans of the greatest franchise in the league its awesome to have high expectations, but at some point you have to be realistic as well.

Who are these mythical "elite" teams if GB isn't one of them? They don't exist, that's the reality. If anyone doesn't think the packers have been elite over the last 5-6 years, give me your list of teams that have been better.

The Packers are the NFC's version of the Patriots. There was an article from JSonline talking about gaining respect from Bill Belichick. Bob McGinn, who made several great points about the lack of physical play on the current Packers, wrote the article. However, it went into asking about whether the Packers are physical enough to earn Belichick's respect.

This struck a nerve with me because it's a reputation versus reality type of argument. The reputation of Belichick is he's a defensive mastermind that employs physical teams. The reality is New England's defense hasn't been very good in three or four years, as evident by Sunday's loss. Like the Packers, they're a finesse team that wins many games behind an elite quarterback. The big difference is one features running backs and tight ends. The other utilizes wide receivers.

It's remarkable how perception often beats reality, but to your point, the Packers are on that level. Come August, the Super Bowl favorites in the conferences will likely be Green Bay (maybe San Francisco) and New England. Vegas has done it the last few off-seasons. Fans take this stuff for granted, but it’s refreshing to take a breath and appreciate the consistency of this great franchise. The media often is in awe of New England and Pittsburgh, but Green Bay's been there every year since '09.
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Zero2Cool on 1/22/2013(UTC)
Offline steveishere  
#35 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 6:23:36 PM(UTC)
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Porforis said: Go to Quoted Post
It really depends on your definition of "elite". In my mind, that says top 3. Nobody's been top 3 most of the last 5 years except MAYBE the Patriots. That's just the nature of the league, and parity is part of what makes the NFL great.


Why put a number on it at all? What if there's a huge drop off between the top 2 and number 3? Elite means the best. I think if you can make a reasonable argument for a team/person being the best then that probably means they are elite. There may be 4 teams of similar quality at the top or 1 that blows everyone else away. I would say the Packers over the last few years have easily been as good as any other top teams in the league. I would say they are an elite team.
Offline DakotaT  
#36 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 6:38:21 PM(UTC)
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One day we are going to look back at the 2010 Packers and wonder, how in the hell did they pull that off with all those injuries. That year, there wasn't a stacked team like the 49er's are today. This Packer team is starting to remind me of the Sherman Packers - rack up the cream puffs but lose to the teams that can punch us in the mouth. McCarthy can run his suffisticated offense all he wants, but what I want to see is a defense that can shut teams down. We don't have anything close to that.
Offline play2win  
#37 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 6:58:38 PM(UTC)
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DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
One day we are going to look back at the 2010 Packers and wonder, how in the hell did they pull that off with all those injuries. That year, there wasn't a stacked team like the 49er's are today. This Packer team is starting to remind me of the Sherman Packers - rack up the cream puffs but lose to the teams that can punch us in the mouth. McCarthy can run his suffisticated offense all he wants, but what I want to see is a defense that can shut teams down. We don't have anything close to that.


Dakota, so true. Sherman fell in love with Favre and pass, pass, pass offensive game planning genius. How many SBs did he win with that?
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#38 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 7:01:52 PM(UTC)
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DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
One day we are going to look back at the 2010 Packers and wonder, how in the hell did they pull that off with all those injuries. That year, there wasn't a stacked team like the 49er's are today. This Packer team is starting to remind me of the Sherman Packers - rack up the cream puffs but lose to the teams that can punch us in the mouth. McCarthy can run his suffisticated offense all he wants, but what I want to see is a defense that can shut teams down. We don't have anything close to that.


I think there needs to be a combination of Finese and Toughness. The finese comes from the skill positions. On offense, that is QB, WR and Pass catchers, on Defense, more CB and S. Toughness from the Oline and Front 7 on defense. We are sitting pretty good with the finese. just need to toughen up the trenches. I started to see a touch of toughness from the Oline in run blocking at the tail end of the regular season as they moved away from the stretch blocking. Dline, just don't see it. People may hate Suh, but the Packers could use somebody with that sort of attitude. And mostly at the DE positions. Matthews is non-stop. Raji, isn't mean, he is finese and speed more than power.
Offline play2win  
#39 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 7:49:05 PM(UTC)
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PFWT, yeah we do need more toughness on our DL. More from our OL wouldn't hurt either, but I question coaching more there. Run blocking is an attitude. If a coach/play caller won't commit to it, the line is forced into stepping back in pass pro and absorbing pass rush.

As for the list of FAs I posted, I was just trying to be helpful by looking up a list of players Thompson had to choose from. Simple as that.

My bigger point was that Thompson didn't do enough to cover all of the bases in assuring we got a better, more formidable DL to help our secondary. Can't just rely on the draft. He could have made a trade for a quality DL. He could have signed a FA. We've looked weak on the DL for two whole seasons now. Gave up an embarrassing number of yds via pass in 2011, and an embarrassing number of yds via run in 2012.

Something has got to give.
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#40 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 8:21:59 PM(UTC)
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play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
PFWT, yeah we do need more toughness on our DL. More from our OL wouldn't hurt either, but I question coaching more there. Run blocking is an attitude. If a coach/play caller won't commit to it, the line is forced into stepping back in pass pro and absorbing pass rush.

As for the list of FAs I posted, I was just trying to be helpful by looking up a list of players Thompson had to choose from. Simple as that.

My bigger point was that Thompson didn't do enough to cover all of the bases in assuring we got a better, more formidable DL to help our secondary. Can't just rely on the draft. He could have made a trade for a quality DL. He could have signed a FA. We've looked weak on the DL for two whole seasons now. Gave up an embarrassing number of yds via pass in 2011, and an embarrassing number of yds via run in 2012.

Something has got to give.


I agree with the run blocking. Which is why I think they were able to have some success, late in the season. they started to commit to it, along with getting away from the stretch. I think Sitton, Bulaga and Lang could really be good run blocking if they actually committed to it.

As for Thompson not doing enough. He has added, to the Dline and pass rush, 5 1st or 2nd round picks in the last 4 years. I've been through the FAs. Sure there are some that I think could have helped, but none of us have any idea if they were contacted, if they wanted to come, or what the cost would have been and how that would impact the long term plans for having money to signe Clay, Rodgers, Raji or any other number of our own FA. Having Perry back alone could have made the difference on defense.
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