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Online Wade  
#31 Posted : Saturday, January 26, 2013 8:07:59 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post




I say let him play out his last year. He did a better job in the middle than Raji did.


I trust Pickett, even with the age factor, more than I trust Raji. I don't want a streaky player who plays Hall of Famer for a few games, then disappears for twice as many. I want someone who is dependable. I want a DT who is an immovable object with arms of steel far more than I want a DT who can make three sacks in a game once or twice a year. Pickett is the former. Raji, at least by what he has shown so far, looks like the latter.

Cool dude. Like the man. But I'd rather have someone more consistent at the position.



And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Offline play2win  
#32 Posted : Saturday, January 26, 2013 11:29:43 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Wade Go to Quoted Post
I trust Pickett, even with the age factor, more than I trust Raji. I don't want a streaky player who plays Hall of Famer for a few games, then disappears for twice as many. I want someone who is dependable. I want a DT who is an immovable object with arms of steel far more than I want a DT who can make three sacks in a game once or twice a year. Pickett is the former. Raji, at least by what he has shown so far, looks like the latter.

Cool dude. Like the man. But I'd rather have someone more consistent at the position.





Wade, I'm a fan of Raji, but I am beginning to see he has really regressed since his drafting in 2009. He should be a beast up there, and he is definitely not. Why pay him the big bucks? That being said, if Ted wants to do away with him from our roster, he best get TWO NTs of high quality, because we were one short WITH Raji.

I would not mind a significant upgrade in the middle with some serious NTs added to our roster, via draft or trade. Our offense is pretty good, but I would not mind seeing another defense heavy draft, especially on the line, and maybe a proven FA addition or a veteran in trade.

Our sack totals went up this year, but we couldn't stop the run. Of all the playoff teams this year, we were dead last in rushing D. For the regular season we were middle of the road at #16. That is not good enough. Our passing D, in spite of a decent sack ranking at #4, was still only #22 in the NFL during the regular season. And that is with what I thought was a pretty good secondary, #8 in picks.

Oh, yeah, pay Pickett. Our best DL.

Add to this the fact that Jerel Worthy may not be able to play in 2013, and I would got heavy, heavy, heavy on drafting quality defensive linemen, and possibly making a trade. Maybe, for once, we could get a real, quality rotation on the line that is a complete menace to opposing offenses.

Starting 2012 very light at DL was a huge part of our undoing. Especially when one of those players, Raji, is slumping. In his defense, the kid has played an enormous amount of reps through all of 3 seasons, 2010-2012. Way too many IMO. Why? Because we had no one to rotate in at NT. No one.

That, to me, is a big knock on Ted and his personnel crew. That's one of the most important parts of a defense, and that area alone, filled with high end talent, makes the rest of your defense better. For whatever reason, we went light here, and depended on rookies and Mike Neal to improve our DL play from 2011. Far too little to work with there.

I would trade Finley in a heartbeat to get a top talent at DE, DT or NT. Whether that is a package deal, or to move up in draft order if they see someone they really want.

Imagine, a solid defense, a solid, committed running game, and one of the best passers in the NFL with a decent stable of quality receivers. That would be a big improvement for the Packers.

Message modified by user Saturday, January 26, 2013 11:57:15 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks Post received 1 applause.
Wade on 1/26/2013(UTC)
Offline yooperfan  
#33 Posted : Saturday, January 26, 2013 7:07:23 PM(UTC)
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Player for player trades rarely happen in the NFL.
So if you are thinking of trading a player like Finley for a quality DL, forget about it.
Offline steveishere  
#34 Posted : Saturday, January 26, 2013 10:08:34 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post


I would trade Finley in a heartbeat to get a top talent at DE, DT or NT. Whether that is a package deal, or to move up in draft order if they see someone they really want.


It's too bad pretty much nobody with or in a position to get a top talent at DL would do that deal.
Offline DakotaT  
#35 Posted : Sunday, January 27, 2013 10:18:33 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: yooperfan Go to Quoted Post
Player for player trades rarely happen in the NFL.
So if you are thinking of trading a player like Finley for a quality DL, forget about it.


Yet so many in here believe that's all you need to do. The NFL is about palcing high value on draft picks and manipulating players contracts to most effectively control the cap situation. Nose tackles and Left tackles do not fall from the sky. The answer isn't to replace Raji, it is to light a fire under his ass. His problem is that he is lazy, and doesn't understand what a privilege it is for him to play in the NFL. Trgavoc needs to find the right psychology to motivate him, that is part of his job.
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thanks Post received 1 applause.
Rockmolder on 1/28/2013(UTC)
Offline play2win  
#36 Posted : Monday, January 28, 2013 9:49:42 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
Yet so many in here believe that's all you need to do. The NFL is about palcing high value on draft picks and manipulating players contracts to most effectively control the cap situation. Nose tackles and Left tackles do not fall from the sky. The answer isn't to replace Raji, it is to light a fire under his ass. His problem is that he is lazy, and doesn't understand what a privilege it is for him to play in the NFL. Trgavoc needs to find the right psychology to motivate him, that is part of his job.


I agree, and was not insinuating a straight trade of Finley for some awesome player. What I am in favor of is throwing him into a trade package that could work. The entire league saw clearly that he was overvalued. Yet, we've seen teams that fall in love with measurables. Maybe one bites.

I also think Raji has what it takes to become a better player. I just wonder if you risk the gigantic contract in order to find out.
Offline doddpower  
#37 Posted : Monday, January 28, 2013 11:58:40 AM(UTC)
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Raji is a fine player and would be missed if he leaves (unless we replace him with someone better of course, but that's the case with anyone). However, it's not easy to find big guys like Raji. Raji isn't elite, but he can be a very effective player so long as he has another really good player beside him, such as Cullen Jenkins. Is that ideal? Obviously not. It'd be best to have Raji be a beast regardless of who he was playing beside, but it's just not reality. Line him up next to another formidable player, and that's a nice combo. Raji isn't worth elite money, but he is valuable to this team, make no mistake. At times he can push the pocket at a high level and really disrupt the middle. He is a big reason why Adrian Peterson struggled up the middle at times, along with Pickett of course.

Just think about how the Packers have struggled to find quality defensive linemen, especially ones that can stay healthy. If Raji walks, who would be comfortable with the Packers ability to replace him anytime soon? I certainly wouldn't. I think it's best to stick with what they have. Give Raji a reasonable extension, and try to find better players to put around him. I honestly don't think Raji will demand or get anything other than a reasonable contract if he hits the open market, anyway. It might as well be with the Packers. If they were able to have a good rotation to keep him fresh, he will continue to be a "good" player, but perhaps not "great." Teams have to find ways to win with "good" players at several positions anyway, because the great ones are hard to come by, especially when drafting in the late first every year.
Offline play2win  
#38 Posted : Monday, January 28, 2013 12:08:54 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: doddpower Go to Quoted Post
Raji is a fine player and would be missed if he leaves (unless we replace him with someone better of course, but that's the case with anyone). However, it's not easy to find big guys like Raji. Raji isn't elite, but he can be a very effective player so long as he has another really good player beside him, such as Cullen Jenkins. Is that ideal? Obviously not. It'd be best to have Raji be a beast regardless of who he was playing beside, but it's just not reality. Line him up next to another formidable player, and that's a nice combo. Raji isn't worth elite money, but he is valuable to this team, make no mistake. At times he can push the pocket at a high level and really disrupt the middle. He is a big reason why Adrian Peterson struggled up the middle at times, along with Pickett of course.

Just think about how the Packers have struggled to find quality defensive linemen, especially ones that can stay healthy. If Raji walks, who would be comfortable with the Packers ability to replace him anytime soon? I certainly wouldn't. I think it's best to stick with what they have. Give Raji a reasonable extension, and try to find better players to put around him. I honestly don't think Raji will demand or get anything other than a reasonable contract if he hits the open market, anyway. It might as well be with the Packers. If they were able to have a good rotation to keep him fresh, he will continue to be a "good" player, but perhaps not "great." Teams have to find ways to win with "good" players at several positions anyway, because the great ones are hard to come by, especially when drafting in the late first every year.


I totally agree with this doddpower. Totally.

Raji has had an inordinate number of snaps since the 2010 season. Ridiculously high. He had 6.5 sacks in 2010, alongside Cullen Jenkins.

Add talent around him and behind him, to maximize his talents. This player does better in rotation, and finally adding a real talent alongside him and Pickett wouldn't hurt. We've needed that for two years now. Let's not make it three.
Offline DakotaT  
#39 Posted : Monday, January 28, 2013 3:46:47 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
I totally agree with this doddpower. Totally.

Raji has had an inordinate number of snaps since the 2010 season. Ridiculously high. He had 6.5 sacks in 2010, alongside Cullen Jenkins.

Add talent around him and behind him, to maximize his talents. This player does better in rotation, and finally adding a real talent alongside him and Pickett wouldn't hurt. We've needed that for two years now. Let's not make it three.


There's nothing wrong with the talent of Neal and Worthy. I do think with Worthy's injury, we should invest one more high pick in a 5 technique DE.

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Offline doddpower  
#40 Posted : Monday, January 28, 2013 4:36:53 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
There's nothing wrong with the talent of Neal and Worthy. I do think with Worthy's injury, we should invest one more high pick in a 5 technique DE.



Definitely. Especially since Worthy is very questionable at that position even when healthy.
Offline PackerTraxx  
#41 Posted : Monday, January 28, 2013 5:46:35 PM(UTC)
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It would be hard to get anyone better than Raji unless we got lucky, very lucky in the draft. I'm with the above that we need some talent around him and he will be OK. A little more depth wouldn't hurt either. The one spot where we might be able to draft a high talent is inside LB because they aren't valued highly, the same with center. It would really help us to get more physical, stronger up the center on both sides of the ball.

Message modified by user Tuesday, January 29, 2013 7:29:49 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Why is Jerry Kramer not in the Hall of Fame?
Offline steveishere  
#42 Posted : Monday, January 28, 2013 5:58:24 PM(UTC)
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The best ways to get a top talent on the interior defensive line positions are to either draft really high or develop a guy that you did draft. Most of the better defensive lineman take a couple years to get where they are (unless they are high draft picks) it's not like RB and WR positions where guys can usually come in lighting it up. So many people seem to expect guys to come in tearing it up as a rookie and act like the guys not going to be any good if he doesn't. It doesn't usually work that way and it's not really a position where you can get a "quick fix".
Offline play2win  
#43 Posted : Tuesday, January 29, 2013 8:50:41 AM(UTC)
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All the more reason to target a player, and either trade for him or sign him in FA.

steve, based on what you are saying, we can't really expect an upgrade on our DL except through further developing the players we have. Take away Pickett and Raji, and we don't really have much. Neal did improve, but still disappeared as a true force to deal with on our DL. Worthy did much the same, but it was his rookie year, and now there are questions about whether he may be able to return for 2013. I liked Daniels a lot, but his size does seem to limit him at this level. Wilson? He was alright against the run, but did any offense that we played have to game plan for him? No.

I say we add veteran talent AND some picks on DL if we hope to improve our defense. If we don't, yeah, maybe we can continue to enjoy division crowns... maybe. That is not for me.

We need a starting DE, and quality backups at DE, NT and DT. That's 4 players.
Offline steveishere  
#44 Posted : Tuesday, January 29, 2013 12:55:24 PM(UTC)
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Who are you thinking they can trade for? I don't ever see many great interior defenders available or changing hands in trades. There aren't any great interior defenders in FA this year either. So yeah if there is a defensive line improvement it'll likely come from players already on the team or a steal from the draft.
Offline QCHuskerFan  
#45 Posted : Tuesday, January 29, 2013 1:03:17 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
Who are you thinking they can trade for? I don't ever see many great interior defenders available or changing hands in trades. There aren't any great interior defenders in FA this year either. So yeah if there is a defensive line improvement it'll likely come from players already on the team or a steal from the draft.


Now you screwed up. You introduced reality into this conversation. Trade happy fans prefer to believe that if Ted would just offer a 7th round pick, we could have JJ Watt on our line.
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wpr on 1/29/2013(UTC)
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