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Offline PackerTraxx  
#41 Posted : Monday, January 28, 2013 5:46:35 PM(UTC)
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It would be hard to get anyone better than Raji unless we got lucky, very lucky in the draft. I'm with the above that we need some talent around him and he will be OK. A little more depth wouldn't hurt either. The one spot where we might be able to draft a high talent is inside LB because they aren't valued highly, the same with center. It would really help us to get more physical, stronger up the center on both sides of the ball.
Offline steveishere  
#42 Posted : Monday, January 28, 2013 5:58:24 PM(UTC)
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The best ways to get a top talent on the interior defensive line positions are to either draft really high or develop a guy that you did draft. Most of the better defensive lineman take a couple years to get where they are (unless they are high draft picks) it's not like RB and WR positions where guys can usually come in lighting it up. So many people seem to expect guys to come in tearing it up as a rookie and act like the guys not going to be any good if he doesn't. It doesn't usually work that way and it's not really a position where you can get a "quick fix".
Offline play2win  
#43 Posted : Tuesday, January 29, 2013 8:50:41 AM(UTC)
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All the more reason to target a player, and either trade for him or sign him in FA.

steve, based on what you are saying, we can't really expect an upgrade on our DL except through further developing the players we have. Take away Pickett and Raji, and we don't really have much. Neal did improve, but still disappeared as a true force to deal with on our DL. Worthy did much the same, but it was his rookie year, and now there are questions about whether he may be able to return for 2013. I liked Daniels a lot, but his size does seem to limit him at this level. Wilson? He was alright against the run, but did any offense that we played have to game plan for him? No.

I say we add veteran talent AND some picks on DL if we hope to improve our defense. If we don't, yeah, maybe we can continue to enjoy division crowns... maybe. That is not for me.

We need a starting DE, and quality backups at DE, NT and DT. That's 4 players.
Offline steveishere  
#44 Posted : Tuesday, January 29, 2013 12:55:24 PM(UTC)
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Who are you thinking they can trade for? I don't ever see many great interior defenders available or changing hands in trades. There aren't any great interior defenders in FA this year either. So yeah if there is a defensive line improvement it'll likely come from players already on the team or a steal from the draft.
Offline QCHuskerFan  
#45 Posted : Tuesday, January 29, 2013 1:03:17 PM(UTC)
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steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
Who are you thinking they can trade for? I don't ever see many great interior defenders available or changing hands in trades. There aren't any great interior defenders in FA this year either. So yeah if there is a defensive line improvement it'll likely come from players already on the team or a steal from the draft.


Now you screwed up. You introduced reality into this conversation. Trade happy fans prefer to believe that if Ted would just offer a 7th round pick, we could have JJ Watt on our line.
thanks Post received 1 applause.
wpr on 1/29/2013(UTC)
Offline earthquake  
#46 Posted : Tuesday, January 29, 2013 1:12:01 PM(UTC)
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steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
Who are you thinking they can trade for? I don't ever see many great interior defenders available or changing hands in trades. There aren't any great interior defenders in FA this year either. So yeah if there is a defensive line improvement it'll likely come from players already on the team or a steal from the draft.

Now you're trying to bring logic into this. Its the offseason and play2win is posting on the internet, that can only mean one thing: awesome trades are out there, just ripe for the picking.

Don't bring up the fact that teams very rarely if ever trade promising, young, talented players, or that more often then not, the only players who are up for trade are Mal-contents, players who are underachieving for thier contracts, or players who would cost a ridiculous amount picks to get(most players are available for trade if you want to do a Hershel walker).

When was the last time anyone remembers a notable dlineman being traded?

Jarred Allen, fresh off 2 DUI's for a 1st and 2 3rds, which seemed like a lot at the time for player who couldn't keep out of trouble. In hindsight it was a good deal for the Vikings.

Richard Seymour for a 1st to the raiders.

Anyone else?
Online wpr  
#47 Posted : Tuesday, January 29, 2013 2:05:49 PM(UTC)
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QCHuskerFan said: Go to Quoted Post
Now you screwed up. You introduced reality into this conversation. Trade happy fans prefer to believe that if Ted would just offer a 7th round pick, we could have JJ Watt on our line.


deal. I will call Houston and get it lined up








tomorrow.
Offline play2win  
#48 Posted : Wednesday, January 30, 2013 12:22:06 PM(UTC)
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QCHuskerFan said: Go to Quoted Post
Now you screwed up. You introduced reality into this conversation. Trade happy fans prefer to believe that if Ted would just offer a 7th round pick, we could have JJ Watt on our line.


Really? Who?

Trades still happen for quality, serviceable veteran players in the NFL. Here are a few from the 2012 season:

Asante Samuel worked out pretty well for ATL, for only a 7th round pick. 5 INTs. Vontae Davis worked out well for IND, for a 2013 R2 + a 2013 conditional pick. 3 INTs and 1 sack in 10 games played. Aqib Talib seemed to work as a late in season trade for NE, who needed a CB. 1 INT in 6 games played. They traded a 4th round pick for him.

Brandon Marshall and DeMeco Ryans both contributed well for CHI and PHI respectively.

The year before, CAR stole Greg Olsen from CHI for a R3. Almost 1400 yds and 10 TDs since. MIA stole Reggie Bush from NO for FS Jonathon Amaya. Bush amassed over 2000 yds and 12 TDs for the Fish since that 2011 trade.

Can someone please tell me how Chris Clemons is working out in SEA? Traded in 2010 by PHI for Darrell Tapp.

How about 11.5 sacks and 3 FFs in the 2012 season? Would that work in GB? Clemons has had 33.5 sacks total for SEA since that trade!!! Over 11 sacks per year!

Trades don't always work. Only a few really do. But, we could stand to find one that works for us in GB, and you're not going to get one that works if you don't try. I also stated we could add a veteran via FA. Bigger point, we need to add BOTH veteran and draft talent to this team. Somehow.

I would venture to say, if we had traded for Clemons in 2010, we might have been looking to 3-peat this Sunday.
Offline QCHuskerFan  
#49 Posted : Wednesday, January 30, 2013 2:09:37 PM(UTC)
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play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
Really? Who?

Trades still happen for quality, serviceable veteran players in the NFL. Here are a few from the 2012 season:

Asante Samuel worked out pretty well for ATL, for only a 7th round pick. 5 INTs. Vontae Davis worked out well for IND, for a 2013 R2 + a 2013 conditional pick. 3 INTs and 1 sack in 10 games played. Aqib Talib seemed to work as a late in season trade for NE, who needed a CB. 1 INT in 6 games played. They traded a 4th round pick for him.

Brandon Marshall and DeMeco Ryans both contributed well for CHI and PHI respectively.

The year before, CAR stole Greg Olsen from CHI for a R3. Almost 1400 yds and 10 TDs since. MIA stole Reggie Bush from NO for FS Jonathon Amaya. Bush amassed over 2000 yds and 12 TDs for the Fish since that 2011 trade.

Can someone please tell me how Chris Clemons is working out in SEA? Traded in 2010 by PHI for Darrell Tapp.

How about 11.5 sacks and 3 FFs in the 2012 season? Would that work in GB? Clemons has had 33.5 sacks total for SEA since that trade!!! Over 11 sacks per year!

Trades don't always work. Only a few really do. But, we could stand to find one that works for us in GB, and you're not going to get one that works if you don't try. I also stated we could add a veteran via FA. Bigger point, we need to add BOTH veteran and draft talent to this team. Somehow.

I would venture to say, if we had traded for Clemons in 2010, we might have been looking to 3-peat this Sunday.


I believe that Talib is a UFA now. So NE traded a 4th rd pick for someone that would give them 6 games. And you think that is a good justification to make trades?

Vontae Davis- basically the same thing only it is a 2 yr deal. They gave up a 2nd rd draft pick to have Davis for 2 years. But not even 2 full years as he missed 6 games this year. The Packers used a #2 for Casey Heyward this year. Would you rather have Casey Heyward for 4 years or Vontae Davis for 2? Because that's the choice when trades are made. In 1 year, the Colts will have nothing to show for that #2 pick. We will have Heyward heading into his 3rd year.

Marshall's been traded twice. He has put up big numbers everywhere he has been. But for some reason, teams are willing to part with him. You say Carolina stole Olsen, but the 3rd rd pick the Bears got for Olsen was half of the trade cost of Marshall. Would you rather have Marshall or Olsen?

Trades can work. We got a QB named Favre in a trade. ATL was excited to get rid of him. Most of the time, the team trading off a player is happy. Why is that?
Offline play2win  
#50 Posted : Wednesday, January 30, 2013 3:48:26 PM(UTC)
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NE saw the value of trading a R4 pick for a starting calibre CB midseason to carry them through to the playoffs after an injury. That is entirely reasonable.

Vontae Davis is a decent, young CB, a team need to start the season, and they got a 3 year starter who amassed 9 INTs over those first 3 years. Ted struck gold with the Hayward pick at the end of R2.

I'd rather have Olsen, but Cutler probably felt differently. The larger point there is CHI swung TWO trades. Your statement was a BS jab, but that's OK I guess. Ignore away on the Samuel and Clemons trades.
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