Discussion Board
Welcome Guest! You can login or register. Login or Register.

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
QCHuskerFan  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, February 5, 2013 9:19:42 AM(UTC)
The Packers 2 most effective DL this year were Pickett and Raji. Both are listed in excess of 335 lbs.

The balance of the 4 DL is listed at 294, 294, 304, and 300.

Is it any wonder that the Packers struggled on Run D at times? My understanding is that a 3-4 requires DL to be big walls of stone that consume blockers. Those are some pretty light (Hehe) bodies.

The Ravens DL is 349,364,313,330,315, and 295.
The 49ers are only 295, 301, 290, 285, 330, 305 though. So maybe my theory doesn't hold water. Or maybe the 49ers LB's are just so much better that it doesn't matter what their DL do.

So maybe Packers don't need DL talent upgrade as much as we need more all-you-can-eat-buffets!
wpr  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, February 5, 2013 9:27:36 AM(UTC)
I always have felt that the GB DL was a little small. But that said size is not everything or all NFL teams would play with 450 linemen.
To be really effective in the 3-4 you have to have guys who love to take on 2 blockers every play and not get much glory. There just are not a lot of Gilbert Browns out there these days. Everyone is worried about how many sacks they can get. How many tackles can they be a part of. That is one of the reasons they blew contain so many times against the Niners. There is no glory in staying out wide and watching some one else make the tackle.
nerdmann  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, February 5, 2013 10:44:36 AM(UTC)
They've got a bunch of 4-3 players, in a 3-4 scheme.

Nick Perry, Jerel Worthy, Mike Daniels, Mike Neal, CJ Williams.

Pretty much everyone except BJ and Pick. LOL
play2win  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, February 5, 2013 11:38:33 AM(UTC)
I think this is a good observation. One quick look at our games against SF and SEA early this year, and v. SD in preseason, and we looked like our defenders were in a different, smaller class. Especially so up on the line. We simply do not have a wrecking crew up there, where we need it. I guess we could add CHI and NYG in there too. Different class entirely.

We must add both size and speed in our front 7 this offseason. Especially on the DL. DE has been calling out as a position of need for two years now. Pickett is a DT/NT. I see adding depth at all 3 line positions an absolute must, with quality talent. Add a LB in there too.

I really do appreciate the improved play from AJ Hawk this year, but it looks like he is kind of maxed out in terms of potential, and that is not good. His speed is marginal, and his coverage is worse than that. He made a good number of tackles, but how many of those were stuffs at the line of scrimmage? 9 TFL. 3 sacks. 0 PD. 0 INT. 0 FF. Those numbers in TFL were comparable to those of the SF LBs, better than Patrick Willis' 7 TFL and Novorro Bowman's 6 TFL, and under Ahmad Brooks, who had 12, but his other numbers, namely in pass coverage, were severely lacking.

Willis had 9 pass deflections, 2 INT and 2 FFs.
Brooks had 6 pass deflections, 1 INT and 2 FFs.
Bowman had 6 pass deflections, 1 INT and 1 FF.

Those can all be big game changing plays. Aldon Smith added another INT and a pass deflection to go with an additional 3 FFs. He had 19.5 sacks.

Clay Matthews had 13 sacks, and 11 TFL, which is comparable to Ahmad Brooks. However, he also failed pretty big, like Hawk, in the turnover department, with just 1 FF and 0 INT and a whopping 2 PDs. Looking at this, I think it is pretty telling. That is two players we are really counting on, both R1 picks, and they just didn't create enough dynamic plays for our defense at LB. I'm not even going to look up Walden's or jones' stats there.

Clearly, we need more bigger, faster, more dynamic players at a number of front our 7 positions. I do think Worthy, Daniels and Perry were all promising picks. They may contribute more next season, but we need more, way more. Figure that a larger, more formidable group on our DL could improve our LB play and DB play. I only bring up the LB play to show we were light in the pants there as well. The entire front 7 needs more size and speed.
nerdmann  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, February 5, 2013 11:53:13 AM(UTC)
Pickett's 31 now isn't he?

Won't last forever.
QCHuskerFan  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, February 5, 2013 12:23:06 PM(UTC)
2013 is quite possibly Pickett's last year. At a minimum, GB needs to draft a replacement for him.

Here is what I see as our DL next year

Raji- Above average NT, 5th year
Pickett- last year probably, 13th overall
Wilson- Nothing special, hasn't gotten bigger after several years so..., 4th year
Daniels- Nothing special as a rookie, needs to gain weight, 2nd year so maybe major step up in 2013?
Neal- Nothing special, hasn't gotten bigger after several years so... 4th year
Draft Pick- NT, I hope, need a big body

Worthy- PUP or IR all season, just my guess, but rather be pessimistic, than disappointed

Without looking at CAP issues or contracts, I could see either Neal or Wilson not coming back. Need to get bigger up front.
RajiRoar  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, February 5, 2013 1:47:20 PM(UTC)
I've been sayin it forevers...

Cj Wilson, and Jarius Wynn are prime examples, they slap beer-guts on 4/3 players and call it good.



Also, we don't need fat men (Pickett) we need big athletic ends who can get push..

Just use an eyeball test on Watt or J.Smith, against any of our ends and you can see that something is amiss.

Not saying those types of players grow on trees, but it is something we don't have.
play2win  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, February 5, 2013 6:15:46 PM(UTC)
Pickett was and remains a very good player. Personally, I think he would be better in rotation with Raji at NT. If I were Ted, I'd look to upgrade his DT position and DE with both draft picks and FAs this offseason, moving him exclusively to NT. I'd add 4 DL, plan to do away with Wilson, and plan on keeping 7 to start the season. Rotate heavily. Pickett and Raji would be the only locks to make the team.

Neal, Wilson and Daniels would have to fight for spots. We need that kind of upgrade.
warhawk  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, February 6, 2013 11:00:35 AM(UTC)
Two big NT's from smaller schools that played well in the Senior Bowl and will probably be drafted in the later rounds:
Montori Hughes, 6'4", 327 Tenn-Martin
Brandon Williams 6'1", 341 Missouri Southern

They graded out well against the best senior OL at the Senior Bowl so they must have some potential. If one's around in the 4th or 5th round...for a rotational NT that can eat up some space?
doddpower  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, February 6, 2013 1:17:48 PM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
They've got a bunch of 4-3 players, in a 3-4 scheme.

Nick Perry, Jerel Worthy, Mike Daniels, Mike Neal, CJ Williams.

Pretty much everyone except BJ and Pick. LOL


Both of which would likely be as effective, if not more effective in a 4-3. Especially BJ Raji, who played such a position in college.

play2win  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, February 6, 2013 1:56:50 PM(UTC)
doddpower said: Go to Quoted Post
Both of which would likely be as effective, if not more effective in a 4-3. Especially BJ Raji, who played such a position in college.



dodd, I could see that working really well. I kind of wish they would switch back to 4-3, bc the personnel, all across the board seems a better fit. Mike Neal could make a great DE in a 4-3. Perry could be the consummate speed rusher opposite. Raji and Pick in the middle. I could easily see that.

Matthews could very well have much the same positive effect in coverage in this defense as Urlacher did with CHI. I'd put Clay at WSLB.

This way they could just add depth with starter potential in the draft on the DL, along with some serious LB talent.
porky88  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, February 6, 2013 11:18:28 PM(UTC)
The Packers run mostly sub packages, so they draft players to fit those specific packages. Mike Neal and Jerel Worthy play inside a majority of the time in a 2-4-5. They line up between the guard and center, so they're not playing a radically different position as they did in college.

Green Bay’s base defense is C.J. Wilson, Ryan Pickett, and B.J. Raji. All three have ideal 3-4 body types. Pickett and Raji are natural nose guards and Wilson is a five technique. Frankly, having two natural nose guards on the field is great. It’s precisely what most teams covet, because it creates a matchup nightmare for many teams. That’s why Pickett remains so valuable, even though he doesn’t always play his natural position.

The Packers definitely have to add depth. They need to limit Raji's and Pickett’s snap count, for obvious reasons. I think they really miss Howard Green. He was that natural big-bodied guy that could spell Pickett and Raji. Without him, one or the other is likely to be on the field most of the time. In the case of Raji, his versatility allows him to slide a gap over and stay in sub packages.

What the Packers lack right now is the third big-bodied player (Howard Green) and another natural five-technique to backup C.J. Wilson. Wilson missed a couple of games this season, and I thought the defense missed him. They didn’t have anyone else that could fill the role, so that’s why you had some lighter players playing out of position, although I believe they think Worthy can manage the position. His injury puts a wrinkle in those plans.
QCHuskerFan  
#13 Posted : Thursday, February 7, 2013 8:28:40 AM(UTC)
Absolutely agree, Porky. If I'm the opposing QB, anytime I see Raji and Pickett out of the game, I'm calling a run play. No big bodies backing them up.
nerdmann  
#14 Posted : Thursday, February 7, 2013 9:49:40 AM(UTC)
porky88 said: Go to Quoted Post
The Packers run mostly sub packages, so they draft players to fit those specific packages. Mike Neal and Jerel Worthy play inside a majority of the time in a 2-4-5. They line up between the guard and center, so they're not playing a radically different position as they did in college.

Green Bay’s base defense is C.J. Wilson, Ryan Pickett, and B.J. Raji. All three have ideal 3-4 body types. Pickett and Raji are natural nose guards and Wilson is a five technique. Frankly, having two natural nose guards on the field is great. It’s precisely what most teams covet, because it creates a matchup nightmare for many teams. That’s why Pickett remains so valuable, even though he doesn’t always play his natural position.

The Packers definitely have to add depth. They need to limit Raji's and Pickett’s snap count, for obvious reasons. I think they really miss Howard Green. He was that natural big-bodied guy that could spell Pickett and Raji. Without him, one or the other is likely to be on the field most of the time. In the case of Raji, his versatility allows him to slide a gap over and stay in sub packages.

What the Packers lack right now is the third big-bodied player (Howard Green) and another natural five-technique to backup C.J. Wilson. Wilson missed a couple of games this season, and I thought the defense missed him. They didn’t have anyone else that could fill the role, so that’s why you had some lighter players playing out of position, although I believe they think Worthy can manage the position. His injury puts a wrinkle in those plans.


I'd like to see Pickett and Raji back each other up and keep each other fresh throughout the game. We have an offense that actually tries to AVOID time of possession, in an attempt to squeeze in more scoring plays. This, as we have seen, wears down the defense.

As for Wilson, I'd like to see him add 30 lbs to become a prototypical 3-4 end.
doddpower  
#15 Posted : Thursday, February 7, 2013 11:55:02 AM(UTC)
CJ Wilson is incredibly average, imo. I think he has OK size for a 3-4 DE, but he should not be a starter. He's OK against the run, but that's about it. I don't think he's very strong, and not the best block consumer. Usually gets zero push on passing plays. Yet another average player among many on the Packers defense. Wilson is great depth, but the Packers desperately need an upgrade at this position.
play2win  
#16 Posted : Friday, February 8, 2013 3:04:37 PM(UTC)
I would like for us to add two more in the mould of Raji and Pickett, along with a top DE. I think that would do wonders for this defense, and this team's success. 3 players. Gigantic. Quick. Effective. We need maulers.
PackerTraxx  
#17 Posted : Saturday, February 9, 2013 9:09:45 AM(UTC)
I would sooner see two DEs about 6'5" and 300 plus. I think Pickett can play a couple of more years and both he and Raji would be much more effective with some good DEs. Then a young NT to develop to replace Pickett when it's time. Obviously that's more easily said than done.
Rss Feed
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Notification

Icon
Error

Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (10h) : Rodgers says he doesn't expect to adjust way he plays: "I wouldn’t be playing if I didn’t feel confident playing the way that I played my en
Zero2Cool (10h) : Panthers Trai Turner enters concussion protocol
Zero2Cool (14h) : Great stat from Mike Zimmer just now at his presser. No team has beaten three above .500 teams on the road in a row since 1967.
Zero2Cool (14h) : Brett Hundley or Blake Bortles if you're the Jaguars?
Zero2Cool (15h) : @ESPNStatsInfo Last season, Aaron Rodgers threw 13 TD and 0 Int while going 5-0 in Dec./Jan. regular season games
FLORIDA PACKER88 (18h) : 12 12 12 12 12 12 12 12
buckeyepackfan (13-Dec) : THAT BAAAAAAAAD MAN IS BACK!!!!!
cheeseheads123 (13-Dec) : 12 is back baby lets go!!!
Zero2Cool (12-Dec) : WR Davante Adams nominated for Clutch Performer of the Week
Zero2Cool (11-Dec) : lol coach with jokes MM: "If i don't know tomorrow, they'll be putting Pat McKenzie on IR."
Zero2Cool (11-Dec) : Rod of Airs here to fook you up!
Zero2Cool (11-Dec) : Packers gonna play coy until Saturday night and go SURPRISE BITCHES
Zero2Cool (11-Dec) : Mike McCarthy on Rodgers timetable: "This is in the hands of the experts. ... Let's just wait until the experts make their decision."
Zero2Cool (11-Dec) : You can freaking localize ads too to region. This is NOT hard. Lazy asses.
Zero2Cool (11-Dec) : I think so too, but it's time they get with it. You can have ads in streaming too.
Nonstopdrivel (11-Dec) : You've been able to stream postseason games for a few years now, I think.
Zero2Cool (11-Dec) : last 4 games played, Packers have worst pass efficency, Browns 2nd worst
Zero2Cool (11-Dec) : On @oath @YahooSports and @NFL Apps
Zero2Cool (11-Dec) : Good news for NFL fans: starting with this season’s playoffs you can stream games on your phone. All phones. All carriers. For free. On
Zero2Cool (11-Dec) : Verizon to pay NFL $500 million a year to stream games
beast (11-Dec) : Packers can't catch Eagles so it doesn't directly effect our playoff chances.
Nonstopdrivel (11-Dec) : yoffs?
Nonstopdrivel (11-Dec) : So . . . could in theory be a severe sprain. Which might still sideline him for the rest of the season, but perhaps he'd be back for the pla
Zero2Cool (11-Dec) : That's regarding Carson Wentz
Zero2Cool (11-Dec) : @AlbertBreer Doctors determined with manual test there was damage to ACL, extent unknown until MRI tomorrow.
Zero2Cool (11-Dec) : Read reports that's what is feared and yes, you're right, usually if that's the fear = done
Nonstopdrivel (11-Dec) : MRI would me mostly a formality. He walked off on his own power, so possibly just a sprain? But I doubt it.
Nonstopdrivel (11-Dec) : Provocative tests on scene are pretty sensitive. If they fear his ACL is torn, it probably is.
Zero2Cool (11-Dec) : He has an ACL? I only heard there were running tests ... tomorrow.
Nonstopdrivel (11-Dec) : Depends on which Nick Foles arises from the ashes. If it's the 2013 Foles, Eagles could still be a powerhouse.
gbguy20 (11-Dec) : carson wentz torn acl. is that good or bad for our playoff chances?
nerdmann (10-Dec) : It's definitive, Davante is BETTER than Janis.
Zero2Cool (10-Dec) : can't believe some don't want Adams re-signed... what is wrong with you!!
Zero2Cool (10-Dec) : @WesHod The #Packers turned to Davante Adams several times during the final series and he came through each time. The evolution of a playmak
buckeyepackfan (10-Dec) : Packer Fans will take over Stadium today!
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2017 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 10 @ 3:25 PM
SEAHAWKS
Sunday, Sep 17 @ 7:30 PM
at Falcons
Sunday, Sep 24 @ 3:25 PM
BENGALS
Thursday, Sep 28 @ 7:25 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Oct 8 @ 3:25 PM
at Cowboys
Sunday, Oct 15 @ 12:00 PM
at Vikings
Sunday, Oct 22 @ 12:00 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Oct 29 @ 12:00 AM
- BYE -
Monday, Nov 6 @ 7:30 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 12 @ 12:00 PM
at Bears
Sunday, Nov 19 @ 12:00 PM
RAVENS
Sunday, Nov 26 @ 7:30 PM
at Steelers
Sunday, Dec 3 @ 12:00 PM
BUCCANEERS
Sunday, Dec 10 @ 12:00 PM
at Browns
Sunday, Dec 17 @ 12:00 PM
at Panthers
Saturday, Dec 23 @ 7:30 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Dec 31 @ 12:00 PM
at Lions
Think About It
Think About It
Recent Topics
4h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

4h / Green Bay Packers Talk / sschind

7h / Green Bay Packers Talk / yooperfan

7h / Green Bay Packers Talk / yooperfan

10h / Green Bay Packers Talk / yooperfan

10h / Green Bay Packers Talk / yooperfan

10h / Green Bay Packers Talk / yooperfan

13-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

13-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Barfarn

13-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

13-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / DoddPower

13-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Barfarn

13-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

13-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / nerdmann

12-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

Headlines