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Rockmolder  
#41 Posted : Sunday, January 20, 2013 10:12:53 AM(UTC)
doddpower said: Go to Quoted Post
As I said earlier, it's just an interesting thought experiment, especially considering how many Packers defensive players currently on the roster seem to be much better suited for a 4-3.

Re: the previous discussion, CM3 would be rushing from a DE/OLB position on obvious passing downs, regardless of whether he was standing or had a hand in the dirt in a 3-4 or 4-3 scheme. The only difference would be is that he would play more of a "rover" role, almost like Charles Woodson has done in the past on 1st and 2nd downs in a 4-3, depending on the situation. And at times, I'm sure he would still line up as a DE in base packages, as well. I wouldn't view that as much of a problem at all, and very well could be a good thing. He already does similar things now, especially against mobile QBs when spying. I'm not sure why some think it would limit his pass rushing opportunities at all, at least with a good coordinator. But as has been said, it's nothing more than something interesting to talk about in a long season, because it's not happening. Hopefully several of these other more prototypical 4-3 can make a better transition to a 3-4 defense next season though. Or better yet, we get more appropriate 3-4 personnel, especially DL and LBs.



Some are, yes. On the second part, I know it wasn't aimed at my post, but that's why I made the Von Miller reference.

Anyway, I feel like Clay would be a good fit in a 4-3, as well, but you do have to build him in. He's not as natural a fit as he is in the 3-4, so I wouldn't say that he'd fit as well in both schemes.

Nick Perry looked like more of a 4-3 DE than a 3-4 OLB in college. His build, weigth, his play, everything pointed to him being drafted by a 4-3 team, so yes, I think he'd benefit from a switch to the 4-3.

People tend to say that your 3-4 DEs would be a better fit as 4-3 UTs, but why? I don't see why a guy like Neal or Daniels would benefit from a switch to the 4-3, all that much.

Maybe you could get away with playing Neal at LE, with Perry at RE, since Matthews gives you that extra rusher off the edge, but what are you really doing in that case?

You're playing with the exact same pieces, the exact same way, with the difference being that Perry puts his hand down, Matthews essentially plays the same role, apart from him having to drop in coverage more often, since you don't rush 5 every play, Neal still won't get to the QB all by himself, since he's build like a LE/UT tweener (Aka, 3-4 DE)...

And who do you take off at the MLB/OLB positions? Bishop certainly isn't an OLB. Go back to Hawk playing OLB? Undo all the work at ILB you did with D.J. Smith and put him back at OLB?

When all is said and done, our defense has a lot of players who could function in either defense, but would changing schemes at this point in time really help us? We got spoiled when we switched to the 3-4, putting up some good numbers, because usually a switch like this takes a couple of years to really start paying dividends.

We should just stick with the 3-4. Even though that doesn't have to be with Capers, as far as I'm concerned.
blueleopard  
#42 Posted : Sunday, January 20, 2013 6:21:56 PM(UTC)
I don't know about a 4-3, but I'd like to see us mix it in a little. We've had Capers for a while now and he's supposed to be a creative defensive mind. Why aren't we running a hybrid? I know our players are smart enough.
Zero2Cool  
#43 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 6:10:53 AM(UTC)
blueleopard said: Go to Quoted Post
I don't know about a 4-3, but I'd like to see us mix it in a little. We've had Capers for a while now and he's supposed to be a creative defensive mind. Why aren't we running a hybrid? I know our players are smart enough.


I think the problem is the defensive scheme is too complicated. When Jim Bates was with the Packers, he scaled things down and suddenly the Packers defense was playing very good. When you are spending more time thinking about what you're going to do, it slows you down. The Packers want to stay young, so they should probably try to keep their defense more simplistic. Which in turn would limit the communication issues.
Yerko  
#44 Posted : Tuesday, January 22, 2013 2:30:17 PM(UTC)
I play Matthews in my 4-3 scheme on Madden 13 at OLB and he does just fine...

There is your proof.


Aside from the joke, Von Miller is real proof that someone like Matthews can excel in a switch from the 3-4 to 4-3. I will agree that a lot of our players are also suited for the 4-3. Having a defensive line like Perry/Raji/Pickett/Neal with 4-3 back-ups like Wilson, Worthy, and Daniels is nothing to overlook.

How difficult would it be for a team to run a hybrid defense (3-4 and 4-3) or is that unthinkable?

Even though none of this will happen, it is a decent off season discussion...Razz
Yerko  
#45 Posted : Tuesday, January 22, 2013 2:56:58 PM(UTC)
Offense:
I'd say center is the #1 priority this season. I think we would all be pretty amazed at how much better TJ Lang and Josh Sitton would be with a center capable of pass blocking and run blocking. The presence of a good center would not only help the guards, but in turn help the tackles as well.

A tight end such as Eifert would be nice to have next to Finley. However, I think Ted will stick to what we have in that position with the return of Quarless. Quarless and Finley might make a decent 1-2 tight end, but nothing close to what the Pats have.

I'm still not sold on LT, but I find it annoying to constantly put that up as an offseason need only to have it be a need the next offseason.

I'd like to put runningback as a need but I think the guys we have would excel with a center that can push the man in front of him. If Starks can stay healthy (long shot), the Packers would have a good group of 3. I think Benson is done.

Overall, if the offensive line is fixed...the offense will be fixed. Rodgers won't be hit so much and if he even comes close to having the amount of time that Brady or P. Manning has in the pocket, this offense would be untouchable.

Defense:
Safety is the #1 priority. Woodson had a go and it didn't work out, imo. Would have been nice to see a whole season with him there but with age comes injury. The guys behind Woodson arne't anything to brag about. Maybe M.D. Jennings or Richardson improve with the offseason, but why rely on that?

MLB is going to be a secret need. AJ Hawk played well this season, but he has hit his ceiling and that just isn't good enough for this defense. He doesn't have the nastiness he had at Ohio State. Should the Packers then rely on a converted Brad Jones or two players in Desmond Bishop or DJ Williams who had severe injuries? I don't think that would be a wise move.

Defensive line. Need one more big body to help the rotation of this 3 man front. Worthy is coming off ACL surgery so there is no telling how he will return. I liked what Neal and Daniels had shown this season. Daniels has an offseason on an NFL weight lifting program. This guy will be a hoss for the defensive line next season. One more able body shores this defensive line up nicely.
User is suspended until 5/28/2018 11:54:40 AM(UTC) DakotaT  
#46 Posted : Tuesday, January 22, 2013 3:00:57 PM(UTC)
Yerko said: Go to Quoted Post
I play Matthews in my 4-3 scheme on Madden 13 at OLB and he does just fine...

There is your proof.


Aside from the joke, Von Miller is real proof that someone like Matthews can excel in a switch from the 3-4 to 4-3. I will agree that a lot of our players are also suited for the 4-3. Having a defensive line like Perry/Raji/Pickett/Neal with 4-3 back-ups like Wilson, Worthy, and Daniels is nothing to overlook.

How difficult would it be for a team to run a hybrid defense (3-4 and 4-3) or is that unthinkable?

Even though none of this will happen, it is a decent off season discussion...Razz



I grew up in the 80's Yerko - I laugh at you spoiled boys who play Madden. :) What's more amusing is the boys in here that need some kind of statistic or sports writer column as PROOF or FACT. These things are as subjective as any of our opnions.

Anyway, if we went to a 4-3, Matthews should go to MLB and be our Brian Urlacher. We'd be stoudt against the run, but would have to blitz to get home on the pass rush.

We'll stay in the 3-4, but what needs to be replaced is playing Raji or Pickett at end. Those boys should just be rotating in and out and anchoring the nose tackle position. Neither players offers anything for pass rush, so let them do what they do and occupy blockers - just keep them fresh.
PackFanWithTwins  
#47 Posted : Tuesday, January 22, 2013 3:02:47 PM(UTC)
dhazer said: Go to Quoted Post
All this talk about switching to a 4-3 and wasting CM3's talents is actually funny. You people do realize he was a DE in college right? Thats what he was drafted as and he had to learn the 3-4 scheme. I know we won't switch cuz we are in the same type of years we were in with Favre. You know the ones where we get to the playoffs but then get knocked out.


While they classified what USC ran as a 4-3. If you look at the lineup, they were much closer to a 3-4. Clay played a Standup DE. Which is essentially the same as what he plays today.
RajiRoar  
#48 Posted : Tuesday, February 12, 2013 12:23:42 PM(UTC)
UPDATE: I added S, and DE to the list.

yes, im slow.
PackerTraxx  
#49 Posted : Tuesday, February 12, 2013 12:39:48 PM(UTC)
DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
I grew up in the 80's Yerko - I laugh at you spoiled boys who play Madden. :) What's more amusing is the boys in here that need some kind of statistic or sports writer column as PROOF or FACT. These things are as subjective as any of our opnions.

Anyway, if we went to a 4-3, Matthews should go to MLB and be our Brian Urlacher. We'd be stoudt against the run, but would have to blitz to get home on the pass rush.

We'll stay in the 3-4, but what needs to be replaced is playing Raji or Pickett at end. Those boys should just be rotating in and out and anchoring the nose tackle position. Neither players offers anything for pass rush, so let them do what they do and occupy blockers - just keep them fresh.


I agree with you T. It would be great to get a couple of big ends like Margus Hunt and William Gholston so we could keep Pick and Raji where they belong.
QCHuskerFan  
#50 Posted : Tuesday, February 12, 2013 1:23:48 PM(UTC)
DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
I grew up in the 80's Yerko - I laugh at you spoiled boys who play Madden. :) What's more amusing is the boys in here that need some kind of statistic or sports writer column as PROOF or FACT. These things are as subjective as any of our opnions.

Anyway, if we went to a 4-3, Matthews should go to MLB and be our Brian Urlacher. We'd be stoudt against the run, but would have to blitz to get home on the pass rush.

We'll stay in the 3-4, but what needs to be replaced is playing Raji or Pickett at end. Those boys should just be rotating in and out and anchoring the nose tackle position. Neither players offers anything for pass rush, so let them do what they do and occupy blockers - just keep them fresh.


Jay Cutler gets sexually aroused at the thought of Matthews playing MLB.

I do agree with you regarding Raji/ Pickett. Need another big body also as 2013 is probably Pickett's last year.
play2win  
#51 Posted : Wednesday, February 13, 2013 8:37:12 AM(UTC)
What is funny to me is how discussions of switching to 4-3 or staying in 3-4 really do point to the athleticism of Clay Matthews. The guy is a remarkably talented and capable football player.

I am a bit torn about staying in a 3-4. We really do need a bunch of players on D, regardless. Clay would make a great MLB or WSLB in a 4-3. Switching to a 4-3 may increase his effectiveness overall, and give his career more longevity. The bigger problem is with the rest of the front 7 players. We don't have enough consistent playmakers. As good as Matthews was last season in getting to the QB, he sure got washed out a lot when it mattered most. The good teams always seemed to have an answer for him. Part of that was we once again had no one opposite him as a threat.

I think the return of Perry is key in this. He is a better 4-3 player at rush end, than a 3-4 player at OLB. Clay is going to be a great player no matter where he lines up. We need DL across the board. Why not switch?

If they stay in 3-4 or decide to switch to a 4-3, all I want is for them to give Capers better players to run his defense.
nerdmann  
#52 Posted : Wednesday, February 13, 2013 8:46:19 AM(UTC)
play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
What is funny to me is how discussions of switching to 4-3 or staying in 3-4 really do point to the athleticism of Clay Matthews. The guy is a remarkably talented and capable football player.

I am a bit torn about staying in a 3-4. We really do need a bunch of players on D, regardless. Clay would make a great MLB or WSLB in a 4-3. Switching to a 4-3 may increase his effectiveness overall, and give his career more longevity. The bigger problem is with the rest of the front 7 players. We don't have enough consistent playmakers. As good as Matthews was last season in getting to the QB, he sure got washed out a lot when it mattered most. The good teams always seemed to have an answer for him. Part of that was we once again had no one opposite him as a threat.

I think the return of Perry is key in this. He is a better 4-3 player at rush end, than a 3-4 player at OLB. Clay is going to be a great player no matter where he lines up. We need DL across the board. Why not switch?

If they stay in 3-4 or decide to switch to a 4-3, all I want is for them to give Capers better players to run his defense.


3-4 is a more flexible style. Let's face it we run a 2-4 more often.

I look for Capers to run a more hybrid style with this personnel.
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