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Online Zero2Cool  
#26 Posted : Saturday, February 16, 2013 10:52:15 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
I recall everybody being very satisfied with the two year deal Finley signed - now he's overpaid when the bigger year needs to be shelled out? This issue with Finley is not his contract, it's his attitude and maturity.

Thinking back to the 2010 season when he got injured, has anybody ever given Quarless the praises he deserved for his role in our championship. With blocking and receiving considered, he's probably our best tight end.


You recall everybody being satisfied huh? - link
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Offline play2win  
#27 Posted : Saturday, February 16, 2013 11:03:46 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
How is that enough said when it simply restates my point about Finley being overpaid? Are you saying I ended it already and you threw down some keystrokes for attention? :)

I trust PFF more than your link and of TE's whom played 50% or more of the snaps, Finley is rated 28th. And also as I stated, he started to really come on in the second half of the season, which if you look at his statistics and ratings, that is also proven too.

Edit, keep in mind, Finley was playing through a shoulder injury during a portion of the first half the season too.


I was taking exception to the hater comment - no big thing Zero2Cool. Offered some very quick access articles on salary and performance. That is all this is about. I know he turned some things around in the 2nd half of the season. But, we needed him for the full season, and he was paid for the full season. That, to me, is not a good return on investment. And, we're not even discussing his blocking...

I guess the bigger thing in all of this is looking at the thresholds, where performance and pay are in line, and forecasting those that are looking to be out of line, then making the hard decisions. As a fan, we don't have much say, and for all I know the light will go on for Jermichael Finley next season. If that does happen, I do hope it is in a Packers uniform. I understand the development of players is not as cut and dried as we all might like for it to be. Finley is their guy, and they've made a pretty big financial commitment to him, along with their continued praise and encouragement from the staff.

Message modified by user Saturday, February 16, 2013 11:58:17 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline blueleopard  
#28 Posted : Saturday, February 16, 2013 12:10:47 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
Closing? For a QB at 29 years old and what 5 seasons of duty under his belt and we are closing that window already? Brady, Manning, Favre types have shown that you can play at a high level well into the late 30's. We are far from closing the window.

Every team reloads.. turns over the roster in a planned manner. Nelson and Cobb were brought in to prepare for DD and Jennings leaving. Loading up the secondary was in preparation of Woodson leaving.

It happens.. and the Packers had that plan in place for when it happened.

We have issues to fix.. heck we have had them for a couple of seasons now.. but this team is far from being depleted.


You're just re-stating what I said in longer verbiage. I know Rodgers is talented, and he'll be like that for a long time, but like Brady, Manning, and Favre -- he won't be able to do it alone. I'd argue that he'd do it better than all the guys you mentioned, but if he continues to take 50 sacks a year, it's not gonna happen.

musccy wrote:
No offense, but did you watch the National Championship game?


Yes, but you can't let that overshadow is entire body of work for that season. You aren't chosen as the runner-up for the Heisman Trophy for no reason, especially as a defensive player.

Te'o is the most instinctive sideline-to-sideline leader in the middle I've seen come out in a very long time. Yes, he was overmatched in the National Championship -- but you have to take into account the Crimson Tide having an offensive line full of draftable guys. Not to mention that aside from Louis Nix, there's nobody that's going to be drafted out of the Notre Dame defensive this year other than Te'o.
Danreb Victorio A Believer of Greg Jennings
Offline buckeyepackfan  
#29 Posted : Saturday, February 16, 2013 12:29:52 PM(UTC)
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Packers have let their all-time yardage receiver retire, they are probably letting go to their "1 reciever of over the past 3 years, quedtionable whether their #1 TE will be back.
That's a lot of experience to replace just on the offensive side.

The Packers released their #1 DB, 2009 DPOY, prob. 1st rnd HOF candidate.
Questionable that their 2012 staring ML(Jones RFA) will be back,
Questionable that their 2012 starting OLB opposite Mathews (Walden) will be back,
and still a majority if you want to shit can the one LB who has been a rock at whatever position he has been asked to play.
Leading tackler in 2012, leading tackler on the team since he was drafted, started every game(but 2 in 2011}.

Yet with all the other ? this team has on defense, it seems that some of you think A.J. Hawk is the biggest problem The Packers have.

PLEASE TED CUT A.J. HAWK, absorb the 5 mil hit on the salary cap, GET HIS ASS OUT OF GREEN BAY, I for 1 am tired of the yearly A.J. Hawk has to go threads.

DAMMIT TED JUST DO IT!!!!

So some of the members can move on to their next most hated guy.

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Offline play2win  
#30 Posted : Saturday, February 16, 2013 12:53:58 PM(UTC)
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There's that "hate" word again. Man, I just see that he is not the fastest MLB in the NFL, probably not in the top half. His coverage is lacking, is it not? He gets paid giant coin, and he's a great guy, and upstanding representative of our team on and off the field, but, what about the production? Tackles stats are deceiving. Yes, he has done a great job, and I've said many times this season how much his play looks to have been improved. Yet, he is not a LB that opponents have to game plan for. Is he?

Well, to me, being paid as much as he is, he should be.

This has nothing to do with liking the player or not.

I put some comparisons up in another thread a while ago. The SF LBs are touted top to bottom as being one of the best units in the NFL. What is it going to take for us to reach that level? Upgrading the unit. You mentioned Brad Jones, and Eric Walden, like they would be some kind of great loss to this team. Really? Why? What have they done? Get them the F out!!!!

Bring in a couple more LBs to pair with Hawk and Matthews. Fine. Maybe Hawk's play improves even further with better talent around him. All I know is other teams exposed the middle of the field against us for some time now. Historical running running totals against us. Historical passing days against us. A lot of that in the middle of our D where Hawk has been a high priced mainstay.

Is Hawk going to become faster with better talent around him? Ted Thompson drafted him very high. He continues to pay him high. It is just my opinion that we are paying way more than what we are getting in return.

Hawk's cap figure is $6.5M (salary 4.9M)
Franchise Tag LB figure is $8.3M
Average salary for LB is $1.2M

For comparison, Patrick Willis has a cap figure of $5M and a salary of $1.9M

Hawk is paid better than many LBs in this NFL. Is AJ Hawks play in the top 20? In February of 2012, there was a ranking of the top 50 Linebackers in the NFL. Matthews was ranked #4 overall. Des Bishop was ranked #39 overall. Hawk didn't even make the list.
http://bleacherreport.co...ctive-linebackers/page/2

In April of 2012, they ranked the top 40 Inside Linebackers. Hawk was ranked #32
http://bleacherreport.co...side-linebackers/page/10

I know you are a fan of his buckeyepackfan, and that's cool. I really like the guy myself. I just think we may need to upgrade, or at the very least get a pay cut in place and get some better players around him.

Message modified by user Saturday, February 16, 2013 1:46:46 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Online Zero2Cool  
#31 Posted : Saturday, February 16, 2013 12:57:48 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
I was taking exception to the hater comment - no big thing Zero2Cool. Offered some very quick access articles on salary and performance. That is all this is about. I know he turned some things around in the 2nd half of the season. But, we needed him for the full season, and he was paid for the full season. That, to me, is not a good return on investment. And, we're not even discussing his blocking...

I guess the bigger thing in all of this is looking at the thresholds, where performance and pay are in line, and forecasting those that are looking to be out of line, then making the hard decisions. As a fan, we don't have much say, and for all I know the light will go on for Jermichael Finley next season. If that does happen, I do hope it is in a Packers uniform. I understand the development of players is not as cut and dried as we all might like for it to be. Finley is their guy, and they've made a pretty big financial commitment to him, along with their continued praise and encouragement from the staff.


No question, Packers need that full season effort from him, not in spurts. That's where I mentioned that whole fire under his ass thing. I kinda hope he takes leadership of the WR/TE corps ... I just doubt he can.
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Offline play2win  
#32 Posted : Saturday, February 16, 2013 1:54:07 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
No question, Packers need that full season effort from him, not in spurts. That's where I mentioned that whole fire under his ass thing. I kinda hope he takes leadership of the WR/TE corps ... I just doubt he can.


It would be great, if the guy all of a sudden got it. Studied hard. Practiced diligently. Kept a focus with his QB. Improved his blocking... I would love to see that, if he remains a Packer.Applause
Offline DakotaT  
#33 Posted : Saturday, February 16, 2013 7:05:13 PM(UTC)
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LOL
Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan Go to Quoted Post
Packers have let their all-time yardage receiver retire, they are probably letting go to their "1 reciever of over the past 3 years, quedtionable whether their #1 TE will be back.
That's a lot of experience to replace just on the offensive side.

The Packers released their #1 DB, 2009 DPOY, prob. 1st rnd HOF candidate.
Questionable that their 2012 staring ML(Jones RFA) will be back,
Questionable that their 2012 starting OLB opposite Mathews (Walden) will be back,
and still a majority if you want to shit can the one LB who has been a rock at whatever position he has been asked to play.
Leading tackler in 2012, leading tackler on the team since he was drafted, started every game(but 2 in 2011}.

Yet with all the other ? this team has on defense, it seems that some of you think A.J. Hawk is the biggest problem The Packers have.

PLEASE TED CUT A.J. HAWK, absorb the 5 mil hit on the salary cap, GET HIS ASS OUT OF GREEN BAY, I for 1 am tired of the yearly A.J. Hawk has to go threads.

DAMMIT TED JUST DO IT!!!!

So some of the members can move on to their next most hated guy.



LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

You're killing me Buckeye. AJ was the shit in college and an average pro. He's overpaid but because of his contract, cutting him makes no sense. Use him up and let his contract expire. But Buckeye don't confuse the player you loved in college with what Packer fans have watched get burned repeatedly in coverage and dragged down the field by running backs. It was a weak draft and we weren't the only team that took it in the shorts.
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Offline porky88  
#34 Posted : Saturday, February 16, 2013 8:55:13 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
It was a weak draft and we weren't the only team that took it in the shorts.

It could be worse, but it could’ve been much, much better. Consider this, Green Bay passed on Haloti Ngata who went No. 12 that year. Forget all the Vernon Davis infatuation. Ted Thompson passed on possibly the best interior defensive lineman of his generation. That's a kick to the balls no matter what your opinion of Hawk is.

Offline nerdmann  
#35 Posted : Saturday, February 16, 2013 11:41:50 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: porky88 Go to Quoted Post
It could be worse, but it could’ve been much, much better. Consider this, Green Bay passed on Haloti Ngata who went No. 12 that year. Forget all the Vernon Davis infatuation. Ted Thompson passed on possibly the best interior defensive lineman of his generation. That's a kick to the balls no matter what your opinion of Hawk is.



Hawk was like Jordy Nelson.

Maybe not as much potential upside as other players, but extremely low risk.
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Online Zero2Cool  
#36 Posted : Sunday, February 17, 2013 7:46:30 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
Hawk was like Jordy Nelson.

Maybe not as much potential upside as other players, but extremely low risk.


A.J. Hawk is who everyone said he was. A player who had reached his ceiling in college. I remember hearing this, relaying it here several times when people were hoping he'd be Jack Lambert or something. He's a solid linebacker, but lacks playmaking ability. I think that would be fine someone else on the linebacking group were a risk taker.
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Offline buckeyepackfan  
#37 Posted : Sunday, February 17, 2013 9:05:41 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
A.J. Hawk is who everyone said he was. A player who had reached his ceiling in college. I remember hearing this, relaying it here several times when people were hoping he'd be Jack Lambert or something. He's a solid linebacker, but lacks playmaking ability. I think that would be fine someone else on the linebacking group were a risk taker.


That's a good description.

I wonder just how many different LB's have played along side Hawk since he has been with The Packers?

What most of you FAIL to realize is that Hawk is THE ONE guy who can be counted on week in week out, he's not perfect, and lordy we all know when he makes a mistake, that play will have it's own thread created, magnifying the fact that he isn't perfect.

What most of you FAIL to realize is when the D-line is getting beat up and man-handled(see SF,NYG, playoff games) the LB core as a unit is going to look bad.

Bishop then Smith and finally Jones along with A.J.Hawk(Hawk being the ONE constant) were pretty effective stopping the run between the tackles in 2012, it was the OLB's getting burned for long runs that hurt The Packers run D the most.

Yet,Clay Mathews seems to get a pass on his failure to contain the run.

I've asked the ? a 100 times, nobody has ever gave me a good answer.

Why the hell did Ted Thompson resign A.J. Hawk? Giving him an 8million signing bonus, and a new contract??

Don't worry guys, after next year, A.J Hawk will be released and you all can move on to another player who in your mind doesn't deserve to play for The Packers.

The Packers will continue being one of the youngest teams in the NFL, filled with all the potential in the world, yet, even with The Best QB in the league, they just can't seem to get over the hump as they did in 2010.

FIRE TED THOMPSON!!!!!!

Time to come to the realization that Ted's way will keep an organization competitive, but isn't going to bring championships to Green Bay.


Enjoy the ride – It kicks and just keeps on kickin’. "Stats are for Losers"
Online Zero2Cool  
#38 Posted : Sunday, February 17, 2013 9:13:02 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan Go to Quoted Post
Yet,Clay Mathews seems to get a pass on his failure to contain the run.


Why do you say Clay Matthews III gets a pass on his failure to contain the run when experts rate him 6th OLB defending the run? What is your reasoning for stating he is a failure containing the run? Why do people who analyze every single snap rate him 6th overall and you say he's a failure? I do not understand! Oh, wait, he was a Trojan, not a Buckeye, now I get it! Flapper
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Offline buckeyepackfan  
#39 Posted : Sunday, February 17, 2013 9:35:51 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
Why do you say Clay Matthews III gets a pass on his failure to contain the run when experts rate him 6th OLB defending the run? What is your reasoning for stating he is a failure containing the run? Why do people who analyze every single snap rate him 6th overall and you say he's a failure? I do not understand! Oh, wait, he was a Trojan, not a Buckeye, now I get it! Flapper

Shame on you

I do so, because I can, and I am always right!!!!!!

Just a side note, I am so happy The Packers FINALLY got rid of that damn Wolverine, who has been overpaid for the last 7 years!!!!!

I guess since I have been branded a "Buckeye Homer", I'll just roll with it.

Still no answer to why Ted Thompson resigned A.J. Hawk, I guess it was just another Ted Thompson Fuck up.
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
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Offline DakotaT  
#40 Posted : Sunday, February 17, 2013 9:44:15 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan Go to Quoted Post
Shame on you


Still no answer to why Ted Thompson resigned A.J. Hawk, I guess it was just another Ted Thompson Fuck up.
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL



Because he had finally come off a decent season and we were letting Barnett go, so that Bishop could play. Now you're going to see AJ let go so that Smith, Jones, or Manning can play. Poor AJ what'll he do? Maybe the Browns will bring the homeboy back to land of no Super Bowl championships.

Why isn't Hawk ever there to cover up the run when Matthews rushes the passer? Cause he can't ever fight through the blocks to get the ball carrier.
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Offline buckeyepackfan  
#41 Posted : Sunday, February 17, 2013 10:29:46 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
Because he had finally come off a decent season and we were letting Barnett go, so that Bishop could play. Now you're going to see AJ let go so that Smith, Jones, or Manning can play. Poor AJ what'll he do? Maybe the Browns will bring the homeboy back to land of no Super Bowl championships.

Why isn't Hawk ever there to cover up the run when Matthews rushes the passer? Cause he can't ever fight through the blocks to get the ball carrier.


That's not an answer!!!

Came off a decent season??? What you're changing your mind now?

Hell he wasn't even on the field for most of the first 4 games of 2010, after being hurt in 2009, but playing through the injuries.

You were calling for Hawk's head way before Barnett was released,just as you call for anyone's head who you don't like.

A.J Hawk has been worth every penny Ted Thompson has paid him, you just can't admit you were wrong after 2009, after 2010, after 2011, and now after 2012.LOL LOL LOL

Not real sure that it's the ILB's responsibility to as you say "cover up" for Mathews's inability to contain.

I'll pretty much guarantee you IT ISN'T Hawk's responsibility, but in your mind anytime the defense gives up a big run, IT'S ALL A.J. HAWKS fault, even though he is only 1 of 11 on the field, and most of the time he is WHERE HE IS SUPPOSE TO BE.

I'm not going to start this with you again, you are who you are, you're not going to change your opinions on any player.

You are WRONG more than you are RIGHT.

You keep living your "this is a business" world, where only YOUR "chosen few" deserve to make more than the NFL minimum, and I'll keep looking for your posts where you bitch about how The Packers have once again come up short in their attempt to make it to The Superbowl.

FIRE TED THOMPSON!!!!!!!!!

Next year when Clay Mathews is ready to break the bank, we'll see which LB's stay and which go.
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Online Zero2Cool  
#42 Posted : Sunday, February 17, 2013 10:40:00 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan Go to Quoted Post
Not real sure that it's the ILB's responsibility to as you say "cover up" for Mathews's inability to contain.


Where the heck are you getting this notion that Clay Matthews III cannot contain? I've tried proving you to be right, and instead proved it wrong and you still have to answer why you say this. I was joking about the whole Trojan thing, but perhaps I nailed it, huh? lol
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Offline buckeyepackfan  
#43 Posted : Sunday, February 17, 2013 11:10:45 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
Where the heck are you getting this notion that Clay Matthews III cannot contain? I've tried proving you to be right, and instead proved it wrong and you still have to answer why you say this. I was joking about the whole Trojan thing, but perhaps I nailed it, huh? lol


I'm not, Mathews is worth every penny he get's next year, just treating his performances the way some on this forum treat Hawk's.

No player is perfect, everyone makes mistakes,sometimes the other team just makes the right call and is successful.

There were a few of times last year that Clay was taken out of the play because he took the inside rush and his responsibility was contain.

Just trying to make a point.

Also I hope you know I am JKing about Ted Thompson.

He did screrw up last year by letting Wells go and signing Saturday, as things turned out, he should have just plugged Dietrich-Smith in as the starter in pre-season and used Saturday's spot for another lineman already on roster.

It's real easy to look back and make this statement, the way it's real easy for some to say "if this guy or if this guy wouldn't have been injured A.J. Hawk would have been gone a long time ago.
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Online Zero2Cool  
#44 Posted : Sunday, February 17, 2013 11:17:56 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan Go to Quoted Post
I'm not, Mathews is worth every penny he get's next year, just treating his performances the way some on this forum treat Hawk's.

No player is perfect, everyone makes mistakes,sometimes the other team just makes the right call and is successful.

There were a few of times last year that Clay was taken out of the play because he took the inside rush and his responsibility was contain.

Just trying to make a point.

Also I hope you know I am JKing about Ted Thompson.

He did screrw up last year by letting Wells go and signing Saturday, as things turned out, he should have just plugged Dietrich-Smith in as the starter in pre-season and used Saturday's spot for another lineman already on roster.

It's real easy to look back and make this statement, the way it's real easy for some to say "if this guy or if this guy wouldn't have been injured A.J. Hawk would have been gone a long time ago.


How did Ted Thompson and the Packers screw up by Scott Wells CHOOSING to play elsewhere? How is that someone's fault that he wasn't overpaid? The Packers needed to upgrade the C position. The failure, if any, was Jeff Saturday, not Wells choosing to play elsewhere. This type of false statement that inaccurately puts blame/accountability one the wrong person is nuts.

Again, Scott Wells CHOSE to leave Green Bay! It is not much different than Cullen Jenkins. Both were pissed they didn't get overpaid contract offers BEFORE free agency, got butthurt and LEFT! Some people, and players fail to understand the Packers don't overspend on players! Including A.J. Hawk, whom they felt was worth the money they gave him!

The Packers and Thompson screw up, no doubt, but christ almighty, throwing blame on them for players choosing to play elsewhere is no shit.
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Offline buckeyepackfan  
#45 Posted : Sunday, February 17, 2013 11:31:29 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
How did Ted Thompson and the Packers screw up by Scott Wells CHOOSING to play elsewhere? How is that someone's fault that he wasn't overpaid? The Packers needed to upgrade the C position. The failure, if any, was Jeff Saturday, not Wells choosing to play elsewhere. This type of false statement that inaccurately puts blame/accountability one the wrong person is nuts.

Again, Scott Wells CHOSE to leave Green Bay! It is not much different than Cullen Jenkins. Both were pissed they didn't get overpaid contract offers BEFORE free agency, got butthurt and LEFT! Some people, and players fail to understand the Packers don't overspend on players! Including A.J. Hawk, whom they felt was worth the money they gave him!

The Packers and Thompson screw up, no doubt, but christ almighty, throwing blame on them for players choosing to play elsewhere is no shit.


You read my post wrong, Ted's mistake was SIGNING SATURDAY, not letting Wells leave thru Fa., Ted had no control over Wells leaving, other than offering him more money than he(Ted) thought Wells was worth.

Dietrich-Smith played better than Saturday, he should have been the starter from day one of TC last year.

Again, easy to say after the facts.
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Offline DakotaT  
#46 Posted : Sunday, February 17, 2013 12:41:30 PM(UTC)
DakotaT

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Buckeye, were you one of those Sherman/Favre lovers? I really don't remember - but you seem to really have a hard on for TT. You put words into my mouth with your assumptions. All I want is for AJ to live up to his draft status and his contract. If you actually think he has done that, then you don't know shit from shinola.

And as for DD - his declining skills is why I didn't think he should be on the team anymore, nothing to do with his character. How do denigrate his character?
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Offline nerdmann  
#47 Posted : Sunday, February 17, 2013 7:10:02 PM(UTC)
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PFT takes a team by team look at who might get tagged:

Quote:
Green Bay Packers: Receiver Greg Jennings turns 30 in September. In other words, the Packers won’t be using the tag on Greg Jennings. The Packers learned while he was injured in 2012 that they can live without him, and they won’t be inclined to invest $10 million in cap space to a guy who plays a position that, with Aaron Rodgers at quarterback, is virtually interchangeable. If the Packers wanted to keep Jennings, they’d be trying to sign him. They’re not, which likely means he won’t be tagged.
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Offline wpr  
#48 Posted : Sunday, February 17, 2013 7:47:56 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
PFT takes a team by team look at who might get tagged:



no. that is a look at who they WON"T tag. Big Grin
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Offline nerdmann  
#49 Posted : Sunday, February 17, 2013 9:46:35 PM(UTC)
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So who DO we tag?

Anyone?
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline wpr  
#50 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 6:38:36 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
So who DO we tag?

Anyone?


no one is tagged. make offers to Shields, EDS and Crabtree but no need to tag them.
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