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Cheesey  
#21 Posted : Saturday, February 16, 2013 10:05:13 AM(UTC)
SOOO true, Dakota!
A great QB can make a so-so WR into a star.

He won't know what he had till he's gone.
play2win  
#22 Posted : Saturday, February 16, 2013 10:05:42 AM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
Jermichael Finley offers a lot more to the team than you seem to realize. Yes, I believe he is over paid, but he played well through the last half of the season. This hating on Finley isn't cool, its naive. If one wants to hate, they should aim it no further than James Campen.


Now, wait a minute. I am not hating on anybody. I'm looking at overall performance, and comparing to the overall cost to the team. I have nothing against him at all as a person. If he continues to be a part of this team, I will root for his success as a Green Bay Packer. However, as a fan of the team, I see he came into a very important season, playing an integral role on the team, and failed for half the season to make an impact as a receiver, and failed for the entire season to make an impact as a blocker. And, that's worth how much? Let me get this straight, this selling of him as a decoy that the opposition has to prepare for is worth $7M?

I do not hate. I'm just not thrilled with his approach to the game, his boisterousness, and his all too often ineffective play that continues to fail to live up to his own words. Year after year. Give me a TE that runs the right routes, catches the football, and blocks his man. I'll take that any day. Finley is not that guy. Is he? Game 1 through 16?
play2win  
#23 Posted : Saturday, February 16, 2013 10:22:23 AM(UTC)
play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
Now, wait a minute. I am not hating on anybody. I'm looking at overall performance, and comparing to the overall cost to the team. I have nothing against him at all as a person. If he continues to be a part of this team, I will root for his success as a Green Bay Packer. However, as a fan of the team, I see he came into a very important season, playing an integral role on the team, and failed for half the season to make an impact as a receiver, and failed for the entire season to make an impact as a blocker. And, that's worth how much? Let me get this straight, this selling of him as a decoy that the opposition has to prepare for is worth $7M?

I do not hate. I'm just not thrilled with his approach to the game, his boisterousness, and his all too often ineffective play that continues to fail to live up to his own words. Year after year. Give me a TE that runs the right routes, catches the football, and blocks his man. I'll take that any day. Finley is not that guy. Is he? Game 1 through 16?


Here is a power ranking of the top TEs in the NFL:
http://www.nfl.com/news/...-rob-gronkowski-the-best

Jermichael Finely is ranked 14th in the NFL, middle of the pack.

Here is a ranking of the top salaries for TEs in the NFL:
http://www.csnne.com/foo...ht-end-in?blockID=721734

Please, Jermichael Finley gets paid MORE than Rob Gronkowski? Finley is the 4th highest paid TE in the NFL? Wow.

Nuff said.
Zero2Cool  
#24 Posted : Saturday, February 16, 2013 10:27:23 AM(UTC)
play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
Here is a power ranking of the top TEs in the NFL:
http://www.nfl.com/news/...-rob-gronkowski-the-best

Jermichael Finely is ranked 14th in the NFL, middle of the pack.

Here is a ranking of the top salaries for TEs in the NFL:
http://www.csnne.com/foo...ht-end-in?blockID=721734

Please, Jermichael Finley gets paid MORE than Rob Gronkowski? Finley is the 4th highest paid TE in the NFL? Wow.

Nuff said.


How is that enough said when it simply restates my point about Finley being overpaid? Are you saying I ended it already and you threw down some keystrokes for attention? :)

I trust PFF more than your link and of TE's whom played 50% or more of the snaps, Finley is rated 28th. And also as I stated, he started to really come on in the second half of the season, which if you look at his statistics and ratings, that is also proven too.

Edit, keep in mind, Finley was playing through a shoulder injury during a portion of the first half the season too.
DakotaT  
#25 Posted : Saturday, February 16, 2013 10:46:01 AM(UTC)
I recall everybody being very satisfied with the two year deal Finley signed - now he's overpaid when the bigger year needs to be shelled out? This issue with Finley is not his contract, it's his attitude and maturity.

Thinking back to the 2010 season when he got injured, has anybody ever given Quarless the praises he deserved for his role in our championship. With blocking and receiving considered, he's probably our best tight end.
Zero2Cool  
#26 Posted : Saturday, February 16, 2013 10:52:15 AM(UTC)
DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
I recall everybody being very satisfied with the two year deal Finley signed - now he's overpaid when the bigger year needs to be shelled out? This issue with Finley is not his contract, it's his attitude and maturity.

Thinking back to the 2010 season when he got injured, has anybody ever given Quarless the praises he deserved for his role in our championship. With blocking and receiving considered, he's probably our best tight end.


You recall everybody being satisfied huh? - link
play2win  
#27 Posted : Saturday, February 16, 2013 11:03:46 AM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
How is that enough said when it simply restates my point about Finley being overpaid? Are you saying I ended it already and you threw down some keystrokes for attention? :)

I trust PFF more than your link and of TE's whom played 50% or more of the snaps, Finley is rated 28th. And also as I stated, he started to really come on in the second half of the season, which if you look at his statistics and ratings, that is also proven too.

Edit, keep in mind, Finley was playing through a shoulder injury during a portion of the first half the season too.


I was taking exception to the hater comment - no big thing Zero2Cool. Offered some very quick access articles on salary and performance. That is all this is about. I know he turned some things around in the 2nd half of the season. But, we needed him for the full season, and he was paid for the full season. That, to me, is not a good return on investment. And, we're not even discussing his blocking...

I guess the bigger thing in all of this is looking at the thresholds, where performance and pay are in line, and forecasting those that are looking to be out of line, then making the hard decisions. As a fan, we don't have much say, and for all I know the light will go on for Jermichael Finley next season. If that does happen, I do hope it is in a Packers uniform. I understand the development of players is not as cut and dried as we all might like for it to be. Finley is their guy, and they've made a pretty big financial commitment to him, along with their continued praise and encouragement from the staff.
blueleopard  
#28 Posted : Saturday, February 16, 2013 12:10:47 PM(UTC)
Pack93z said: Go to Quoted Post
Closing? For a QB at 29 years old and what 5 seasons of duty under his belt and we are closing that window already? Brady, Manning, Favre types have shown that you can play at a high level well into the late 30's. We are far from closing the window.

Every team reloads.. turns over the roster in a planned manner. Nelson and Cobb were brought in to prepare for DD and Jennings leaving. Loading up the secondary was in preparation of Woodson leaving.

It happens.. and the Packers had that plan in place for when it happened.

We have issues to fix.. heck we have had them for a couple of seasons now.. but this team is far from being depleted.


You're just re-stating what I said in longer verbiage. I know Rodgers is talented, and he'll be like that for a long time, but like Brady, Manning, and Favre -- he won't be able to do it alone. I'd argue that he'd do it better than all the guys you mentioned, but if he continues to take 50 sacks a year, it's not gonna happen.

musccy said:
No offense, but did you watch the National Championship game?


Yes, but you can't let that overshadow is entire body of work for that season. You aren't chosen as the runner-up for the Heisman Trophy for no reason, especially as a defensive player.

Te'o is the most instinctive sideline-to-sideline leader in the middle I've seen come out in a very long time. Yes, he was overmatched in the National Championship -- but you have to take into account the Crimson Tide having an offensive line full of draftable guys. Not to mention that aside from Louis Nix, there's nobody that's going to be drafted out of the Notre Dame defensive this year other than Te'o.
buckeyepackfan  
#29 Posted : Saturday, February 16, 2013 12:29:52 PM(UTC)
Packers have let their all-time yardage receiver retire, they are probably letting go to their "1 reciever of over the past 3 years, quedtionable whether their #1 TE will be back.
That's a lot of experience to replace just on the offensive side.

The Packers released their #1 DB, 2009 DPOY, prob. 1st rnd HOF candidate.
Questionable that their 2012 staring ML(Jones RFA) will be back,
Questionable that their 2012 starting OLB opposite Mathews (Walden) will be back,
and still a majority if you want to shit can the one LB who has been a rock at whatever position he has been asked to play.
Leading tackler in 2012, leading tackler on the team since he was drafted, started every game(but 2 in 2011}.

Yet with all the other ? this team has on defense, it seems that some of you think A.J. Hawk is the biggest problem The Packers have.

PLEASE TED CUT A.J. HAWK, absorb the 5 mil hit on the salary cap, GET HIS ASS OUT OF GREEN BAY, I for 1 am tired of the yearly A.J. Hawk has to go threads.

DAMMIT TED JUST DO IT!!!!

So some of the members can move on to their next most hated guy.

play2win  
#30 Posted : Saturday, February 16, 2013 12:53:58 PM(UTC)
There's that "hate" word again. Man, I just see that he is not the fastest MLB in the NFL, probably not in the top half. His coverage is lacking, is it not? He gets paid giant coin, and he's a great guy, and upstanding representative of our team on and off the field, but, what about the production? Tackles stats are deceiving. Yes, he has done a great job, and I've said many times this season how much his play looks to have been improved. Yet, he is not a LB that opponents have to game plan for. Is he?

Well, to me, being paid as much as he is, he should be.

This has nothing to do with liking the player or not.

I put some comparisons up in another thread a while ago. The SF LBs are touted top to bottom as being one of the best units in the NFL. What is it going to take for us to reach that level? Upgrading the unit. You mentioned Brad Jones, and Eric Walden, like they would be some kind of great loss to this team. Really? Why? What have they done? Get them the F out!!!!

Bring in a couple more LBs to pair with Hawk and Matthews. Fine. Maybe Hawk's play improves even further with better talent around him. All I know is other teams exposed the middle of the field against us for some time now. Historical running running totals against us. Historical passing days against us. A lot of that in the middle of our D where Hawk has been a high priced mainstay.

Is Hawk going to become faster with better talent around him? Ted Thompson drafted him very high. He continues to pay him high. It is just my opinion that we are paying way more than what we are getting in return.

Hawk's cap figure is $6.5M (salary 4.9M)
Franchise Tag LB figure is $8.3M
Average salary for LB is $1.2M

For comparison, Patrick Willis has a cap figure of $5M and a salary of $1.9M

Hawk is paid better than many LBs in this NFL. Is AJ Hawks play in the top 20? In February of 2012, there was a ranking of the top 50 Linebackers in the NFL. Matthews was ranked #4 overall. Des Bishop was ranked #39 overall. Hawk didn't even make the list.
http://bleacherreport.co...ctive-linebackers/page/2

In April of 2012, they ranked the top 40 Inside Linebackers. Hawk was ranked #32
http://bleacherreport.co...side-linebackers/page/10

I know you are a fan of his buckeyepackfan, and that's cool. I really like the guy myself. I just think we may need to upgrade, or at the very least get a pay cut in place and get some better players around him.
Zero2Cool  
#31 Posted : Saturday, February 16, 2013 12:57:48 PM(UTC)
play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
I was taking exception to the hater comment - no big thing Zero2Cool. Offered some very quick access articles on salary and performance. That is all this is about. I know he turned some things around in the 2nd half of the season. But, we needed him for the full season, and he was paid for the full season. That, to me, is not a good return on investment. And, we're not even discussing his blocking...

I guess the bigger thing in all of this is looking at the thresholds, where performance and pay are in line, and forecasting those that are looking to be out of line, then making the hard decisions. As a fan, we don't have much say, and for all I know the light will go on for Jermichael Finley next season. If that does happen, I do hope it is in a Packers uniform. I understand the development of players is not as cut and dried as we all might like for it to be. Finley is their guy, and they've made a pretty big financial commitment to him, along with their continued praise and encouragement from the staff.


No question, Packers need that full season effort from him, not in spurts. That's where I mentioned that whole fire under his ass thing. I kinda hope he takes leadership of the WR/TE corps ... I just doubt he can.
play2win  
#32 Posted : Saturday, February 16, 2013 1:54:07 PM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
No question, Packers need that full season effort from him, not in spurts. That's where I mentioned that whole fire under his ass thing. I kinda hope he takes leadership of the WR/TE corps ... I just doubt he can.


It would be great, if the guy all of a sudden got it. Studied hard. Practiced diligently. Kept a focus with his QB. Improved his blocking... I would love to see that, if he remains a Packer.=d>
DakotaT  
#33 Posted : Saturday, February 16, 2013 7:05:13 PM(UTC)
LOL
buckeyepackfan said: Go to Quoted Post
Packers have let their all-time yardage receiver retire, they are probably letting go to their "1 reciever of over the past 3 years, quedtionable whether their #1 TE will be back.
That's a lot of experience to replace just on the offensive side.

The Packers released their #1 DB, 2009 DPOY, prob. 1st rnd HOF candidate.
Questionable that their 2012 staring ML(Jones RFA) will be back,
Questionable that their 2012 starting OLB opposite Mathews (Walden) will be back,
and still a majority if you want to shit can the one LB who has been a rock at whatever position he has been asked to play.
Leading tackler in 2012, leading tackler on the team since he was drafted, started every game(but 2 in 2011}.

Yet with all the other ? this team has on defense, it seems that some of you think A.J. Hawk is the biggest problem The Packers have.

PLEASE TED CUT A.J. HAWK, absorb the 5 mil hit on the salary cap, GET HIS ASS OUT OF GREEN BAY, I for 1 am tired of the yearly A.J. Hawk has to go threads.

DAMMIT TED JUST DO IT!!!!

So some of the members can move on to their next most hated guy.



LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

You're killing me Buckeye. AJ was the shit in college and an average pro. He's overpaid but because of his contract, cutting him makes no sense. Use him up and let his contract expire. But Buckeye don't confuse the player you loved in college with what Packer fans have watched get burned repeatedly in coverage and dragged down the field by running backs. It was a weak draft and we weren't the only team that took it in the shorts.
porky88  
#34 Posted : Saturday, February 16, 2013 8:55:13 PM(UTC)
DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
It was a weak draft and we weren't the only team that took it in the shorts.

It could be worse, but it could’ve been much, much better. Consider this, Green Bay passed on Haloti Ngata who went No. 12 that year. Forget all the Vernon Davis infatuation. Ted Thompson passed on possibly the best interior defensive lineman of his generation. That's a kick to the balls no matter what your opinion of Hawk is.

nerdmann  
#35 Posted : Saturday, February 16, 2013 11:41:50 PM(UTC)
porky88 said: Go to Quoted Post
It could be worse, but it could’ve been much, much better. Consider this, Green Bay passed on Haloti Ngata who went No. 12 that year. Forget all the Vernon Davis infatuation. Ted Thompson passed on possibly the best interior defensive lineman of his generation. That's a kick to the balls no matter what your opinion of Hawk is.



Hawk was like Jordy Nelson.

Maybe not as much potential upside as other players, but extremely low risk.
Zero2Cool  
#36 Posted : Sunday, February 17, 2013 7:46:30 AM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
Hawk was like Jordy Nelson.

Maybe not as much potential upside as other players, but extremely low risk.


A.J. Hawk is who everyone said he was. A player who had reached his ceiling in college. I remember hearing this, relaying it here several times when people were hoping he'd be Jack Lambert or something. He's a solid linebacker, but lacks playmaking ability. I think that would be fine someone else on the linebacking group were a risk taker.
buckeyepackfan  
#37 Posted : Sunday, February 17, 2013 9:05:41 AM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
A.J. Hawk is who everyone said he was. A player who had reached his ceiling in college. I remember hearing this, relaying it here several times when people were hoping he'd be Jack Lambert or something. He's a solid linebacker, but lacks playmaking ability. I think that would be fine someone else on the linebacking group were a risk taker.


That's a good description.

I wonder just how many different LB's have played along side Hawk since he has been with The Packers?

What most of you FAIL to realize is that Hawk is THE ONE guy who can be counted on week in week out, he's not perfect, and lordy we all know when he makes a mistake, that play will have it's own thread created, magnifying the fact that he isn't perfect.

What most of you FAIL to realize is when the D-line is getting beat up and man-handled(see SF,NYG, playoff games) the LB core as a unit is going to look bad.

Bishop then Smith and finally Jones along with A.J.Hawk(Hawk being the ONE constant) were pretty effective stopping the run between the tackles in 2012, it was the OLB's getting burned for long runs that hurt The Packers run D the most.

Yet,Clay Mathews seems to get a pass on his failure to contain the run.

I've asked the ? a 100 times, nobody has ever gave me a good answer.

Why the hell did Ted Thompson resign A.J. Hawk? Giving him an 8million signing bonus, and a new contract??

Don't worry guys, after next year, A.J Hawk will be released and you all can move on to another player who in your mind doesn't deserve to play for The Packers.

The Packers will continue being one of the youngest teams in the NFL, filled with all the potential in the world, yet, even with The Best QB in the league, they just can't seem to get over the hump as they did in 2010.

FIRE TED THOMPSON!!!!!!

Time to come to the realization that Ted's way will keep an organization competitive, but isn't going to bring championships to Green Bay.


Zero2Cool  
#38 Posted : Sunday, February 17, 2013 9:13:02 AM(UTC)
buckeyepackfan said: Go to Quoted Post
Yet,Clay Mathews seems to get a pass on his failure to contain the run.


Why do you say Clay Matthews III gets a pass on his failure to contain the run when experts rate him 6th OLB defending the run? What is your reasoning for stating he is a failure containing the run? Why do people who analyze every single snap rate him 6th overall and you say he's a failure? I do not understand! Oh, wait, he was a Trojan, not a Buckeye, now I get it! Flapper
buckeyepackfan  
#39 Posted : Sunday, February 17, 2013 9:35:51 AM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
Why do you say Clay Matthews III gets a pass on his failure to contain the run when experts rate him 6th OLB defending the run? What is your reasoning for stating he is a failure containing the run? Why do people who analyze every single snap rate him 6th overall and you say he's a failure? I do not understand! Oh, wait, he was a Trojan, not a Buckeye, now I get it! Flapper

[-x

I do so, because I can, and I am always right!!!!!!

Just a side note, I am so happy The Packers FINALLY got rid of that damn Wolverine, who has been overpaid for the last 7 years!!!!!

I guess since I have been branded a "Buckeye Homer", I'll just roll with it.

Still no answer to why Ted Thompson resigned A.J. Hawk, I guess it was just another Ted Thompson Fuck up.
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
thanks Post received 1 applause.
DakotaT  
#40 Posted : Sunday, February 17, 2013 9:44:15 AM(UTC)
buckeyepackfan said: Go to Quoted Post
[-x


Still no answer to why Ted Thompson resigned A.J. Hawk, I guess it was just another Ted Thompson Fuck up.
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL



Because he had finally come off a decent season and we were letting Barnett go, so that Bishop could play. Now you're going to see AJ let go so that Smith, Jones, or Manning can play. Poor AJ what'll he do? Maybe the Browns will bring the homeboy back to land of no Super Bowl championships.

Why isn't Hawk ever there to cover up the run when Matthews rushes the passer? Cause he can't ever fight through the blocks to get the ball carrier.
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