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Offline Wade  
#11 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 5:40:18 AM(UTC)
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Yes, Pickett and Woodson were both bargains.
And yes the Packers went after Moss ... but only at a bargain price.
(I don't know about Lynch.)

My point is that those kind of FA pickups -- high tier players who also are available late or at a bargain price -- are few and far between. 2 or 3 every 8 years, if you will.

My point is that if you want to get "enough" help in free agency, you ought not to limit yourself to bargain hunting and close dealing. You need to take major buck risks once in a while.

Not several times a year. Not every year. Not even every other year. But once in a while.

And Ted Thompson has never taken that risk. He's never risked a first round draft choice on another team's backup. And he's never taken the financial risk that an early Tier 1 (or even most tier 2 signings) requires.

Wolf did both. What Packer fan thought Favre was a good trade when it was made? And lest we forget, Reggie White was already 31 when he joined the Packers.

I don't want him to become Dan Snyder or some of the other clowns in the Spoiled Billionaire's Club. But I do wish he'd take a bigger risk in FA every so often.

But I don't ever expect him to.



Offline wpr  
#12 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 6:36:00 AM(UTC)
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Wade said: Go to Quoted Post
Yes, Pickett and Woodson were both bargains.
And yes the Packers went after Moss ... but only at a bargain price.
(I don't know about Lynch.)

My point is that those kind of FA pickups -- high tier players who also are available late or at a bargain price -- are few and far between. 2 or 3 every 8 years, if you will.

My point is that if you want to get "enough" help in free agency, you ought not to limit yourself to bargain hunting and close dealing. You need to take major buck risks once in a while.

Not several times a year. Not every year. Not even every other year. But once in a while.

And Ted Thompson has never taken that risk.
He's never risked a first round draft choice on another team's backup. And he's never taken the financial risk that an early Tier 1 (or even most tier 2 signings) requires.

Wolf did both. What Packer fan thought Favre was a good trade when it was made? And lest we forget, Reggie White was already 31 when he joined the Packers.

I don't want him to become Dan Snyder or some of the other clowns in the Spoiled Billionaire's Club. But I do wish he'd take a bigger risk in FA every so often.

But I don't ever expect him to.






exactly. 1 player who could put them over the top on the DL. It would have been nice to have Julius Peppers to complement Raji on the line and CM3 in pressuring the QB.

Perhaps someone at S after Collins went down.

I don't see going for a tier 1 player on the OL, WR maybe even RB positions as they were critical needs. But the defense should would have benefited with the infusion of a pro bowl caliber player over the past 3-4 years.


Offline steveishere  
#13 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 6:48:29 AM(UTC)
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Wade said: Go to Quoted Post

And Ted Thompson has never taken that risk. He's never risked a first round draft choice on another team's backup. And he's never taken the financial risk that an early Tier 1 (or even most tier 2 signings) requires.



and he only has a Superbowl title and one of the winningest teams in the league since he became the GM to show for it...
Offline wpr  
#14 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 7:19:46 AM(UTC)
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steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
and he only has a Superbowl title and one of the winningest teams in the league since he became the GM to show for it...


No one is saying we hate Ted. (most of those posters have gone away.) What we or at least I am saying with a little judiciousness GB might have had 3 SB appearances by now with more to come.

Ted is what he is. He isn't going to change. We certainly are not going to change him. It is the off season. there is very little going on why can't we discuss this aspect? Do you have anything else to talk about?
Offline steveishere  
#15 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 7:41:56 AM(UTC)
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wpr said: Go to Quoted Post
No one is saying we hate Ted. (most of those posters have gone away.) What we or at least I am saying with a little judiciousness GB might have had 3 SB appearances by now with more to come.

Ted is what he is. He isn't going to change. We certainly are not going to change him. It is the off season. there is very little going on why can't we discuss this aspect? Do you have anything else to talk about?


I never meant to infer that I think you hate Ted. A little judiciousness could just as likely have led to 3 years completely missing the playoffs as 3 Superbowl appearances. Ted believes in his system and his system works, that's all I'm saying. That's why several of the top teams in the NFL run things that way. I completely disagree that you should even occasionally pay for the "big" FA. You definitely do not NEED to take "major buck risks" every once in a while. Consistency is what is needed. You have to be a great team every year to have a shot at winning a couple titles. Not put all your eggs in one basket every so often.
Offline Jlapp  
#16 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 7:43:23 AM(UTC)
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wpr said: Go to Quoted Post
exactly. 1 player who could put them over the top on the DL. It would have been nice to have Julius Peppers to complement Raji on the line and CM3 in pressuring the QB.


Where would the $14m/year it took the Bear's to sign him come from? It isn't like the packers could have just added him without doing anything else.

Not to mention Peppers was probably the only top FA that has come close to meeting expectations. I'd even say he is vastly over overpaid for what he provides. Most rarely end up as good deals for the team that signs them.
Offline steveishere  
#17 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 8:04:00 AM(UTC)
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Jlapp said: Go to Quoted Post
Where would the $14m/year it took the Bear's to sign him come from? It isn't like the packers could have just added him without doing anything else.

Not to mention Peppers was probably the only top FA that has come close to meeting expectations. I'd even say he is vastly over overpaid for what he provides. Most rarely end up as good deals for the team that signs them.


One thing to keep in mind with the Peppers signing too is that he was signed during the season there was no salary cap so they basically dumped 20 million of his money into that season which is not really something you would want to do now. That contract would have hurt a lot more if it was signed any other year.
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wpr on 2/18/2013(UTC)
Offline Pack93z  
#18 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 8:28:37 AM(UTC)
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My opinion.. is the economics of the game are much different today than Wolf's era.. at least the part where he set the tone. Reggie White.

Back then, the cap was going to be introduced in 1994 and many were trying to figure it out more so than today when each team has a group dedicated to nothing but managing the cap. I think Wolf was ahead of his time in understanding the economics of the game and thus how we managed to compete salary wise to land White. And honestly, in today's world, a Reggie White talent isn't on the FA market to begin with. Don't even try and compare Peppers, Haynesworth and the likes.

Basically, Wolf was feeding (feasting if you will) off the mismanagement of other teams and collecting talent in a deeper FA pool.

It doesn't diminish the job Wolf did to land talent, but the point is talent was available on the FA market because teams were struggling to understand the impacts of the cap being introduced. Guys like Santana Dotson, Andre Rison, and Eugene Robinson we being cut loose.. where as today, few impact players are on the market each year and they are too expensive for a cap managed team to realistically compete in year in and out. Those three we just a couple of many impact type players to hit the market annually. And yes I know Rison was let loose for other reasons than just cap.

Ted has shown that when talent is on the market with reasonable salaries attached, he becomes engaged in the fray. Sometimes he lands them.. sometimes he doesn't. But it isn't like he hasn't been in the mix for players that could help.

Basically after that babble.. I just don't know how realistic it is to compare the two without factoring in the changes in the economic and management of the rosters and their costs.
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Offline wpr  
#19 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 8:56:08 AM(UTC)
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steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
One thing to keep in mind with the Peppers signing too is that he was signed during the season there was no salary cap so they basically dumped 20 million of his money into that season which is not really something you would want to do now. That contract would have hurt a lot more if it was signed any other year.


nice point steve.
Offline wpr  
#20 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 9:23:24 AM(UTC)
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Pack93z said: Go to Quoted Post
My opinion.. is the economics of the game are much different today than Wolf's era.. at least the part where he set the tone. Reggie White.

Back then, the cap was going to be introduced in 1994 and many were trying to figure it out more so than today when each team has a group dedicated to nothing but managing the cap. I think Wolf was ahead of his time in understanding the economics of the game and thus how we managed to compete salary wise to land White. And honestly, in today's world, a Reggie White talent isn't on the FA market to begin with. Don't even try and compare Peppers, Haynesworth and the likes.

Basically, Wolf was feeding (feasting if you will) off the mismanagement of other teams and collecting talent in a deeper FA pool.

It doesn't diminish the job Wolf did to land talent, but the point is talent was available on the FA market because teams were struggling to understand the impacts of the cap being introduced. Guys like Santana Dotson, Andre Rison, and Eugene Robinson we being cut loose.. where as today, few impact players are on the market each year and they are too expensive for a cap managed team to realistically compete in year in and out. Those three we just a couple of many impact type players to hit the market annually. And yes I know Rison was let loose for other reasons than just cap.

Ted has shown that when talent is on the market with reasonable salaries attached, he becomes engaged in the fray. Sometimes he lands them.. sometimes he doesn't. But it isn't like he hasn't been in the mix for players that could help.

Basically after that babble.. I just don't know how realistic it is to compare the two without factoring in the changes in the economic and management of the rosters and their costs.


They certainly were two completely different areas. The game has changed so much both on and off the field. But then that is part of the fun of comparisons. How would Hutson do in the game today? It is fun to speculate.

You hit on one of their differences. Wolf feasted on the mismanagement of other teams. I think Wolf was a little more aggressive then Ted is. Sometimes that is a good thing. Sometimes it bites you in the butt.
There is no doubt when Ted came in GB was in salary cap hell. He did an incredible job of working out of it as quickly as he did. That could taint hi outlook. He probably never wants to get anywhere near that situation again. Thus he is willing to pass on higher priced players.

Keep this in mind. I have said it about teams for more than 20 years. Typically it is more lucrative for a franchise to consistently second than it is for them to pony up for the player or two or three that it takes to put them over the top and win it all. There is very little or no incentive on Ted's part to pick up the tier 1 type FA that they could use to win it all. They sell out every game. The concession stands do huge business. People flock to buy ceremonially stock. The sporting good cloths, jerseys and such, are one of the highest year in and year out. Spending money on quality players will not increase the revenue stream very much. Prob not as much as the expense stream increases.
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