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Offline wpr  
#11 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 12:20:29 PM(UTC)
wpr

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Originally Posted by: JustJeff Go to Quoted Post
Since no one else wants to, please allow me to do some shopping.

Cedric Peerman – Running Back – Cincinnati Bengals 5’ 8” – 211
Core special teams player, natural zone runner , who runs with power
4.34 speed - Kirwan Explosion Index 76.75 6.99 cone 1.40 Ten yard split
Overpaying for a guy making $540K? Peanuts.

Kenny Phillips – Free Safety – New York Giants 6’ 2” – 217
4.48 speed Can play single high and has good man skills
You’re not likely to get into a bidding war for Phillips. He made 2.08 million
Give him the $2.3 million that we paid Collins for 2012 (since he is now off the books)

Rocky Bernard – DT - New York Giants 6’ 4” – 300
His 2002 combine numbers 4.96 speed - Kirwan Explosion Index 72.0
Think of Bernard as a Cullen Jenkins type who can stay healthy, he’s only missed 10 games in seven years.
He’s 33, but has some tread left on the tires – especially as a five-tech.
He can be had by overpaying to the tune of $1 million per.


These guys look intriguing. I have no idea what a Kirwan Explosion Index is but overall it sounds impressive.

Bernard can prob be had for less money than Melton and he is stout enough to anchor the end a little better. But as you say, he is 33 so there needs to be a plan B if he is injured and as he looses his edge.
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Offline Pack93z  
#12 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 12:36:34 PM(UTC)
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Me... overpay me. For all my posts upon the Packers, I think I should be overpaid. Big Grin

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I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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thanks Post received 1 applause.
wpr on 2/18/2013(UTC)
Offline JustJeff  
#13 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 12:43:54 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
I have no idea what a Kirwan Explosion Index is but overall it sounds impressive.
.

Pat Kirwan, during his time in scouting and personnel developed a formula of a combined result of vertical leap, standing broad jump and bench press test. Kirwan marked 70 as a benchmark for an excellent combined score.

The scores are relative to where the film says a player should be drafted, but are good physical measures nonetheless.

Another measure that Kirwan liked was to compare the shuttle to the 40, players who were a full half second faster in the shuttle, displayed outstanding quickness.


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Offline wpr  
#14 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 12:58:37 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
Me... overpay me. For all my posts upon the Packers, I think I should be overpaid. Big Grin

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all right stud. We will double nor quadruple your current salary and lock you in for another 5 make that 10 years.

You will not get a better offer today. Unless your wife has anything to say. (Maybe she will take you off KP for the day.)
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Offline QCHuskerFan  
#15 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 1:51:12 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: JustJeff Go to Quoted Post
Since no one else wants to, please allow me to do some shopping.

Cedric Peerman – Running Back – Cincinnati Bengals 5’ 8” – 211
Core special teams player, natural zone runner , who runs with power
4.34 speed - Kirwan Explosion Index 76.75 6.99 cone 1.40 Ten yard split
Overpaying for a guy making $540K? Peanuts.

Kenny Phillips – Free Safety – New York Giants 6’ 2” – 217
4.48 speed Can play single high and has good man skills
You’re not likely to get into a bidding war for Phillips. He made 2.08 million
Give him the $2.3 million that we paid Collins for 2012 (since he is now off the books)

Rocky Bernard – DT - New York Giants 6’ 4” – 300
His 2002 combine numbers 4.96 speed - Kirwan Explosion Index 72.0
Think of Bernard as a Cullen Jenkins type who can stay healthy, he’s only missed 10 games in seven years.
He’s 33, but has some tread left on the tires – especially as a five-tech.
He can be had by overpaying to the tune of $1 million per.


Devil's Advocate

Cedric Peerman- Sounds like Dujuan Harris. Similar size, speed, style. Except Cedric is 2 years older and more expensive.

Kenny Phillips- Plays Morgan Burnett's spot, but Morgan has experience at SS. Most acceptable to the 3 of me, but he is coming off a year in which he only played 7 games due to knee injury. Still pretty young though.

Rocky Bernard- This is a nightmare for me. Let's pretend he is signed. What young player on the active roster gets replaced? Daniels? Worthy? Neil? So the development is stopped on a young player and he is replaced by someone that will maybe be here for a year or 2. What happens in 2014 when both Pickett and Bernard need replaced? Then we are really screwed. He has been relatively healthy, but played just 12 games in 2012. Is this the end? Don't care how cheap he is. Aren't the Giants a 4-3 team?

Offline doddpower  
#16 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 2:11:25 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
Rocky Bernard- This is a nightmare for me. Let's pretend he is signed. What young player on the active roster gets replaced? Daniels? Worthy? Neil? So the development is stopped on a young player and he is replaced by someone that will maybe be here for a year or 2. What happens in 2014 when both Pickett and Bernard need replaced? Then we are really screwed. He has been relatively healthy, but played just 12 games in 2012. Is this the end? Don't care how cheap he is. Aren't the Giants a 4-3 team?



I'm not crazy about that idea at all either, but it's very unlikely Worthy takes a roster spot next season. He will likely start off on the PUP list and then be moved over to injured reserved afterwards. So it's not really fair to include him in this discussion. Either way, I think there are better options in the draft that I expect the Packers to get one or two of.
Offline JustJeff  
#17 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 2:11:59 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
Devil's Advocate

Cedric Peerman- Sounds like Dujuan Harris. Similar size, speed, style. Except Cedric is 2 years older and more expensive.

Kenny Phillips- Plays Morgan Burnett's spot, but Morgan has experience at SS. Most acceptable to the 3 of me, but he is coming off a year in which he only played 7 games due to knee injury. Still pretty young though.

Rocky Bernard- This is a nightmare for me. Let's pretend he is signed. What young player on the active roster gets replaced? Daniels? Worthy? Neil? So the development is stopped on a young player and he is replaced by someone that will maybe be here for a year or 2. What happens in 2014 when both Pickett and Bernard need replaced? Then we are really screwed. He has been relatively healthy, but played just 12 games in 2012. Is this the end? Don't care how cheap he is. Aren't the Giants a 4-3 team?


Good job with Devil's Advocate.

Peerman would be the cheapest of the signings, similar build and style? Sure. Aren't Alex Green and Brandon Saine? Peerman would be #2 out of these three free agent prospects.

Phillips is a true FS. Burnett is horribly miscast pretending to be a FS. My intent with Phillips is to get Burnett to a more natural role. We HAVE to find a free safety. McMillan may be that guy, but Phillips is young and not expensive.

Rocky Bernard? I have as many issues with him as you (maybe more lol). I was looking for a true five-tech end who could apply pressure from the end in our base D. I like a lot of the guys you mention, but they all have one flaw, they lack length. Give me one guy to play the role that Brett Keisel plays for the Steelers, that lengthy five-tech, who can keep tackles off of his body in the run game and get after the passer in base defense. It is the one player we haven't nailed down. Neal is close and made a difference upon his return but he isn't the prototype. The problem is that these guys are coveted for both schemes and they usually go in the top 20 and its why we've had trouble finding one.

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Offline QCHuskerFan  
#18 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 3:43:43 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: JustJeff Go to Quoted Post
Good job with Devil's Advocate.

Rocky Bernard? I have as many issues with him as you (maybe more lol). I was looking for a true five-tech end who could apply pressure from the end in our base D. I like a lot of the guys you mention, but they all have one flaw, they lack length. Give me one guy to play the role that Brett Keisel plays for the Steelers, that lengthy five-tech, who can keep tackles off of his body in the run game and get after the passer in base defense. It is the one player we haven't nailed down. Neal is close and made a difference upon his return but he isn't the prototype. The problem is that these guys are coveted for both schemes and they usually go in the top 20 and its why we've had trouble finding one.



I just called Ted Thompson and told him to draft 3 of them this year. That should take care of it. After all, I'm an owner! He has to do what I say.

Seriously, that is what I see as the #1 need. A JJ Watt type of disruptive force. Keisel is another good example. While some will argue a 3-4 DE needs to tie up blockers, I disagree. Yes, it is an important role, but why wouldn't you want more?

That was my issue with Daniels last year. He's too light to play NT and too small to be a disruptive force at DE. I like his energy, but he's 6'. Until he packs on about 25 lbs, he's miscast, I think.
Offline JustJeff  
#19 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 4:02:30 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
I just called Ted Thompson and told him to draft 3 of them this year. That should take care of it. After all, I'm an owner! He has to do what I say.

Seriously, that is what I see as the #1 need. A JJ Watt type of disruptive force. Keisel is another good example. While some will argue a 3-4 DE needs to tie up blockers, I disagree. Yes, it is an important role, but why wouldn't you want more?

That was my issue with Daniels last year. He's too light to play NT and too small to be a disruptive force at DE. I like his energy, but he's 6'. Until he packs on about 25 lbs, he's miscast, I think.

Daniels is a perfect example of what I mentioned earlier. It's not size (he's actually heavier than Keisel and Watt). His problem is at 6' 0", he lacks length. Keisel is 6' 3" and Watt is 6' 5" and both have excellent arm length. Scouts usually add wingspan to height as a comparative of "length."

You can almost predict a draftboard by length anymore. The Giants - recognizing first that they are a 40 front - don't have any fatties, but an impressive collection of lengthy athletes. Jason Pierre-Paul, Osi Umenyiora, Rocky Bernard, Justin Tuck and Chris Canty are all of the same mold - very lengthy guys.

The Giants have done a good job of finding the lengthy guys who can play low. I'm not greedy; I just want one (or two... maybe three) of that type.

I like two heavies and one true five-tech in the 3-4. That needs to be high on Teddy Ballgame's list.
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Offline DakotaT  
#20 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 5:20:26 PM(UTC)
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I want to sign Paul Kruger OLB from Baltimore, just like I wanted to trade for Cameron Wake last year. I am sick to death of having dog shit opposite Clay. I don't think Perry will ever be a complete OLB with the ability to run with the TE's and cover. Perry should be bulked up to play DE with Neal.

I would love a proven 3-4 OLB to make sure we go into the season ready, not this draft and develop BS for a position we have never adequately filled since moving to a 3-4.
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thanks Post received 3 applause.
Wade on 2/18/2013(UTC), nerdmann on 2/18/2013(UTC), yooperfan on 2/18/2013(UTC)
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