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JustJeff  
#1 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 12:26:38 PM(UTC)
I was looking for a Ron Wolf article... no luck.

But I stumbled across this nugget from the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel...
Quote:
May 22, 2002
Ever since the Green Bay Packers released the overweight and aging Bernardo Harris in March, they've had a number of opportunities to add depth at middle linebacker.
But for one reason or another, they didn't pull the trigger.
They entertained free agents Henri Crockett and Robert Jones, then looked into trading for Jeremiah Trotter. Coach and general manager Mike Sherman decided to use the team's available funds to sign defensive end Joe Johnson instead.


Later in the article...
Quote:
They could have signed Trotter


Still later...
Quote:
They could have drafted a linebacker


The money shot...
Quote:
As a result, standing pat has left Green Bay with just one viable alternative at middle linebacker: Torrance Marshall.


Mike Sherman's reign of terror had begun.

Can I get an LOL
Zero2Cool  
#2 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 12:34:29 PM(UTC)
I think we Packers fans are spoiled, big time. I mean, it's been over 20 some years since we've had non elite starting QB. Teams like Bears, Vikings and Lions have gone several decades without a marginal to good QB. Bears and Lions both have decent QB's now, better than average at least.

Mike Sherman I thought was good as a coach, poor as GM.


Sherman always had me excited on draft day. Always trading up and stuff... it was just bitter to see a Punter with the selection ... as an example.


We've got it good, but we want championships! I think the Packers are probably two maybe three years away from being a legit Super Bowl contention. Unless this draft yields some studs, I think 2013 will end in disappointment. Although, that can be said for 31 teams so that's not stretching it much.
wpr  
#3 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 1:03:51 PM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
I think we Packers fans are spoiled, big time. I mean, it's been over 20 some years since we've had non elite starting QB. Teams like Bears, Vikings and Lions have gone several decades without a marginal to good QB. Bears and Lions both have decent QB's now, better than average at least.

Mike Sherman I thought was good as a coach, poor as GM.


Sherman always had me excited on draft day. Always trading up and stuff... it was just bitter to see a Punter with the selection ... as an example.


We've got it good, but we want championships! I think the Packers are probably two maybe three years away from being a legit Super Bowl contention. Unless this draft yields some studs, I think 2013 will end in disappointment. Although, that can be said for 31 teams so that's not stretching it much.


yep Sherman was terrible as a GM. I didn't like the move from the day they made the announcement. I didn't know how he would do. I feel there is too much to do as a GM or a HC to be able to do both and excel.

Keep in mind all the talk on comparing GM s and what would have happened is splitting hairs that are as fine as the ones on my head. If you can find them.

A lot of my posts are simply intended to generate some discussion. I think you like that idea.
JustJeff  
#4 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 1:27:04 PM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post

We've got it good, but we want championships! I think the Packers are probably two maybe three years away from being a legit Super Bowl contention. Unless this draft yields some studs, I think 2013 will end in disappointment. Although, that can be said for 31 teams so that's not stretching it much.

We are very spoiled. Vegas has us installed as fourth best odds to win it all in 2013. we're not as far off as some think.

McCarthy always stresses the importance of the second-year-leap. We will not get it from Worthy, but some others who should make the leap.

Nick Perry was just starting to look comfortable when he went down. He could be big. His size/skill-set looks very LaMarr Woodley-ish to me.

One day Jarrett Boykin will be the answer to trivia questions. The question? Who sent Donald Driver to the bench and then to the inactive list. Driver couldn't get on the field with Jordy and Jennings out, because of Boykin. People have slept on him, but he obviously caught the coaches' attention.

Don Barclay is backup material, but played well for an undrafted lineman thrown into the proverbial fire. Early in the season, we ran some six man line by using EDS inside. I really like that idea with Barclay as an extra tackle.

Mike Daniels looked unblockable in preseason. He managed to bring some of that into the regular season. He was a nice change of pace as an inside pressure guy in the nickel.

Terrell Manning was painfully ill throughout camp with inflammation of the large intestine due to a parasite that caused the colitis. He lost 20 pounds, fighting through it with only coaches and teammates knowing what was going on. Manning is one of those "plays faster than he times" guys who is always around the ball.

Casey Hayward, the sky is the limit with a full offseason and an existing knowledge of the defense.

Jerron McMillian, flashed at times, and has the speed to move to FS.

There are so many others too. Our young TEs... Derek Sherrod coming to camp ready to go... DuJuan Harris having a full camp with us... Davon House being healthy and getting a full offseason worth of work.

We're not as far off as some perceive. When does camp open?
wpr  
#5 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 3:07:08 PM(UTC)
JustJeff said: Go to Quoted Post
We are very spoiled. Vegas has us installed as fourth best odds to win it all in 2013. we're not as far off as some think.

McCarthy always stresses the importance of the second-year-leap. We will not get it from Worthy, but some others who should make the leap.

Nick Perry was just starting to look comfortable when he went down. He could be big. His size/skill-set looks very LaMarr Woodley-ish to me.

One day Jarrett Boykin will be the answer to trivia questions. The question? Who sent Donald Driver to the bench and then to the inactive list. Driver couldn't get on the field with Jordy and Jennings out, because of Boykin. People have slept on him, but he obviously caught the coaches' attention.

Don Barclay is backup material, but played well for an undrafted lineman thrown into the proverbial fire. Early in the season, we ran some six man line by using EDS inside. I really like that idea with Barclay as an extra tackle.


Mike Daniels looked unblockable in preseason. He managed to bring some of that into the regular season. He was a nice change of pace as an inside pressure guy in the nickel.

Terrell Manning was painfully ill throughout camp with inflammation of the large intestine due to a parasite that caused the colitis. He lost 20 pounds, fighting through it with only coaches and teammates knowing what was going on. Manning is one of those "plays faster than he times" guys who is always around the ball.

Casey Hayward, the sky is the limit with a full offseason and an existing knowledge of the defense.

Jerron McMillian, flashed at times, and has the speed to move to FS.

There are so many others too. Our young TEs... Derek Sherrod coming to camp ready to go... DuJuan Harris having a full camp with us... Davon House being healthy and getting a full offseason worth of work.

We're not as far off as some perceive. When does camp open?


I loved that formation. Shades of the old U71 formation.
Just as soon as they get another infusion of young talent.
Mucky Tundra  
#6 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 3:15:59 PM(UTC)
JustJeff said: Go to Quoted Post

Don Barclay is backup material, but played well for an undrafted lineman thrown into the proverbial fire. Early in the season, we ran some six man line by using EDS inside. I really like that idea with Barclay as an extra tackle.


The idea of Barclay lining up on the ride side with Bulaga and Sitton has crept into my mind before and I have to say I'll be excited when it happens.
nerdmann  
#7 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 3:51:23 PM(UTC)
Mucky Tundra said: Go to Quoted Post
The idea of Barclay lining up on the ride side with Bulaga and Sitton has crept into my mind before and I have to say I'll be excited when it happens.


Barclay was also in on that 4th and 17 (or whatever it was) fake FG that went for a TD against the Bares. He got in two key blocks as I recall.

I agree we're not far away. Nick Perry will be ready. Dez Moses will have an offseason in the NFL to prepare his body. Dez Bishop, DJ Smith and Marshall will all be ready. Sherrod and Bulaga will be back. Datko will be ready to see if his shoulder can hold up.

Our biggest impediment is Mike and Aaron. If they can pull their heads out and get down with some fundamentally sound offensive philosophy, we'll be unstoppable.

As for Sherman, he did suck as GM. He was the anti-Ted. Always trying to reach for guys to get another ring for Brent, as Brent threw away season after season. But Sherman was never going to stand up to Brent. Wasn't happening.

However my biggest problem with Sherman is that his priority was hiring his friends. Instead, his priority should have been WINNING. Rosseley just sucked balls. And the way they scapegoated Ed Donnatell that year made me lose alot of respect for Sherman.

After Wolf shitcanned Ray Rhodes like he did, it seemed like no one wanted to touch the job with a ten foot pole, perhaps because Rhodes had let Brent take over the operation. Rhodes was an all time great coach, until they forced him into therapy when he made that comment to the effect that "Losing at home is like having someone break into your house and sodomize your family in front of you, and you can't do anything about it." LOL After that he became a bit of a 9-5er.
Mucky Tundra  
#8 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 5:39:55 PM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post

Our biggest impediment is Mike and Aaron. If they can pull their heads out and get down with some fundamentally sound offensive philosophy, we'll be unstoppable.


I couldn't help but notice the difference between McCarthys play calling in the divisional round vs John Harbaughs in the Super Bowl. After the 49ers came surging back and the Ravens O floundering trying to throw the ball, Harbaugh committed to the run and it got enough points and time for the Ravens D to make a stand. And it wasn't like the runs were gashing the 49ers D but it got enough yards to make the passing easier and I saw one or two times were the RB helped buy time with blocking on passing downs.

On the other hand McCarthy with his team down 7 mid way through the 3rd quarter, defense running on fumes and moderate success running the ball up to that point decides to throw six straight times from shotgun with 5 WR.

Sure the Ravens had the lead and the Packers were behind but the way the two coaches managed their respective teams and called plays was as different as night and day.
doddpower  
#9 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 8:50:51 PM(UTC)
I really don't blame Rodgers much for the way the offensive play calls have worked out. Mike McCarthy is the head coach. If Rodgers isn't doing what he wants and has planned to have happen, McCarthy should correct Rodgers and make sure it doesn't happen again. He's the head coach. He should be in control of every aspect. Unfortunately, he seems to lose control himself far too often. The discipline starts at the top and works its way down from there.
play2win  
#10 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 9:14:00 PM(UTC)
JustJeff said: Go to Quoted Post
I was looking for a Ron Wolf article... no luck.

But I stumbled across this nugget from the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel...


Later in the article...


Still later...


The money shot...


Mike Sherman's reign of terror had begun.

Can I get an LOL


No. But you can get a COL from me. Crying. Sobbing. Oh, the stupidity of Mike Sherman. Wow. What a complete moron in personnel. We could have had a dynasty with a few less personnel blunders.

Thanks a lot wpr....Crying
play2win  
#11 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 9:19:13 PM(UTC)
wpr said: Go to Quoted Post
I loved that formation. Shades of the old U71 formation.
Just as soon as they get another infusion of young talent.


I'll gladly give Sherman kudos for the U71. It was freaking awesome. Needed to be used more, but freaking awesome.
DakotaT  
#12 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 9:35:06 PM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post



Sherman always had me excited on draft day. Always trading up and stuff... it was just bitter to see a Punter with the selection ... as an example.




Do realize that if he had traded up and used that pick on Matt Schaub like I thought was happening instead of punter, we very well could have not drafted Aaron Rodgers. Sherman was a fricken genius LOL for nabbing that punter that could never win the starting job. I wonder if two punters were ever carried on a roster before or after the Sherminator.
JustJeff  
#13 Posted : Tuesday, February 19, 2013 11:25:25 AM(UTC)
Mike Sherman Scouting Matt Schaub
Zero2Cool  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, February 19, 2013 11:41:50 AM(UTC)
DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
Do realize that if he had traded up and used that pick on Matt Schaub like I thought was happening instead of punter, we very well could have not drafted Aaron Rodgers. Sherman was a fricken genius LOL for nabbing that punter that could never win the starting job. I wonder if two punters were ever carried on a roster before or after the Sherminator.


No question about it, Packers still draft Aaron Rodgers. Matt Shaub is a stop gap QB, not franchise QB.
play2win  
#15 Posted : Wednesday, February 20, 2013 12:58:20 PM(UTC)
I'm going to take this thread in a bit of a different direction. From a cap standpoint, we just released one of our very top paid players in Woodson. We have a lot of players to extend in the near future, with Rodgers, Matthews, Raji plus some others - a few of those may be significant figures.

For some perspective, take a look at the figures the Jets are trying to renegotiate:

'New York Jets general manager John Idzik will approach a few players about restructuring their contracts. The most likely candidates are LB David Harris (team-high $13 million cap charge), WR Santonio Holmes ($12.5 million), CB Antonio Cromartie ($10.8 million), OT D'Brickashaw Ferguson ($10.7 million) and DT Sione Pouha ($6.2 million). QB Mark Sanchez ($12.9 million) could also be a candidate; however, it doesn't make sense to push his money into future years, considering his tenuous position on the team.'

Read more: http://www.kffl.com/hotw/NFL?page=0#ixzz2LTFgI56x

FIVE players with cap figures in excess of $10M. Unreal.
buckeyepackfan  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, February 20, 2013 5:04:04 PM(UTC)
JustJeff said: Go to Quoted Post
I was looking for a Ron Wolf article... no luck.

But I stumbled across this nugget from the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel...


Later in the article...


Still later...


The money shot...


Mike Sherman's reign of terror had begun.

Can I get an LOL


Just to b e clear:
Mike Sherman took over an 8-8 team after the 1999 season.

2000 as Head coach only.......9-7 missed playoffs

Named GM/HC after 2000 season

2001 12-4 reg season....1-1 playoffs(beat SF, loss to Rams)
2002 12-4 reg season....0-1 playoffs(loss to Falcons)
2003 10-6 reg season....1-1 playoffs(beat Seattle loss to Philly)
2004 9-7 reg season....0-1 playoffs(loss to Vikings)

5 years.....52-28 reg season....2-4 playoffs

Reign of terror????

How can you blame Mike Sherman?

The whole thing started 2 years before mike Sherman ever came to Green Bay.

Anyone remember why Holmgren got on a plane in SF and went to Seattle instead of coming back to Green Bay??????
Because he wanted more player control, he wanted to be GM/HC, those in charge at the time refused his wishes so he left.

Ray Rhodes 1 yr wonder(whoops those in charge realize they have made a HUGE mistake)

Enter Mike Sherman after 1 year of being HC, he is given the power that was refused to MiKe Holmgen.

The GM/HC experiment was a total disaster in most places, blame Mike Sherman if you want, but remember it was THE GUYS UPSTAIRS who made these dumbass moves.

Who knows what would have happened if Mike Holmgren would have stayed in Green Bay?

I know it's "the in thing" around here to Make fun of The Mike Sherman years, but when you take a look back at what really happened, it wasn't bad at all, The Packers could never get over the hump in his 5 years and win it all.

Reign of terror???? I think not
Overwelmed after 4years of being GM/HC, that's probably closer to the truth.
Rockmolder  
#17 Posted : Wednesday, February 20, 2013 5:49:05 PM(UTC)
buckeyepackfan said: Go to Quoted Post
Just to b e clear:
Mike Sherman took over an 8-8 team after the 1999 season.

2000 as Head coach only.......9-7 missed playoffs

Named GM/HC after 2000 season

2001 12-4 reg season....1-1 playoffs(beat SF, loss to Rams)
2002 12-4 reg season....0-1 playoffs(loss to Falcons)
2003 10-6 reg season....1-1 playoffs(beat Seattle loss to Philly)
2004 9-7 reg season....0-1 playoffs(loss to Vikings)

5 years.....52-28 reg season....2-4 playoffs

Reign of terror????

How can you blame Mike Sherman?

The whole thing started 2 years before mike Sherman ever came to Green Bay.

Anyone remember why Holmgren got on a plane in SF and went to Seattle instead of coming back to Green Bay??????
Because he wanted more player control, he wanted to be GM/HC, those in charge at the time refused his wishes so he left.

Ray Rhodes 1 yr wonder(whoops those in charge realize they have made a HUGE mistake)

Enter Mike Sherman after 1 year of being HC, he is given the power that was refused to MiKe Holmgen.

The GM/HC experiment was a total disaster in most places, blame Mike Sherman if you want, but remember it was THE GUYS UPSTAIRS who made these dumbass moves.

Who knows what would have happened if Mike Holmgren would have stayed in Green Bay?

I know it's "the in thing" around here to Make fun of The Mike Sherman years, but when you take a look back at what really happened, it wasn't bad at all, The Packers could never get over the hump in his 5 years and win it all.

Reign of terror???? I think not
Overwelmed after 4years of being GM/HC, that's probably closer to the truth.


I agree that it's not as much a reign of terror as it is a man trying to do something he just can't do.

Sherman just isn't a GM.

I like the facts you show, but they don't tell the whole story.

Sherman inherited a pretty decent team not too long after the SB run, with which even Ray managed to go 8-8.

The real problem started to arise when it came to the continuity of the team. He drafted awfully in 2003 and 2004. 2002 was somewhat ok, but Javon Walker turned out to be a headcase and behind him, we didn't get a whole lot out of that draft, either, with not a whole lot of pics. We did pick up Kampman and Dookie Davenport, though.

I'm leaving 2001 out because Wolf still drafted that year.

Next to that, when Ted took over, he first had to get the salary cap mess straightened out. That pretty much devestated our O-line and was a big factor in going 6-10.

Sherman's coaching was ok and, at the time, the verdict on his GM skills was still out there. Looking back now, though, you can see that he just didn't do a very good job. Something felt not as hard when he still was GM, but that left its marks after he left.
porky88  
#18 Posted : Wednesday, February 20, 2013 6:24:13 PM(UTC)
Sherman inherited a team with one of the greatest quarterbacks in NFL history and never managed to advance to the NFC championship. Ron Wolf also built him a quality roster. Chad Clifton, Mark Tauscher, Ahmad Green, Donald Driver, Darren Sharper, Mike Wahle, Marco Rivera, Mike Flanagan, Mike McKenzie, and Bubba Franks were all quality players. Many are future inductees into the Packer Hall of Fame.

Mike Sherman's tenure in Green Bay was good on paper, but ultimately, underachieving. Perhaps if Ron Wolf stayed another two or three years, and maybe things would've turned out much different.
buckeyepackfan  
#19 Posted : Wednesday, February 20, 2013 6:46:31 PM(UTC)
Agreed porky,

Mike Sherman had to deal with these guys as a HC, then turn around and try to negotiate with them and their agents as the GM.
Pretty much been proven that that's not a winning formula.

Wasn't the Mike McKenzie fiasco with him holding out then coming in to play then being sent to New orleans pretty much the final straw?

No way can 1 man deal with players on the field, then deal with them as mal-contants off the field.

When this subject comes up I always wonder how Mike McCarthy would do as GM/HC, or how Ted Thompson would do as the same?

Thankfully The Packer organization learned form their mistake and hopefully it will never be repeated.

I do wonder from time to time just what woud have happened if Holmgen was allowed the power he wanted and stayed in Green Bay ?
Oh well if's and but's..........
nerdmann  
#20 Posted : Wednesday, February 20, 2013 10:24:30 PM(UTC)
Sherman sucked as GM, but he also was more interested in making the team a country club for his buddies than a championship organization. Mainly because a guy like Rosseley totally sucked shit. Mike Stock too. What was that special teams coach's name?

He totally sucked as ST coach, but they kept him around, because he was Sherman's snitch. Even when he "retired" and they hired a new ST coach, that dude still hung around.

And the way they scapegoated Ed Donnatell was shameful.

That said, I think Sherman's biggest failing was neither his GMing or his focus on putting his friends before the organization. Imo, Sherman's biggest failure was in not standing up to Brent.

In fact, I think his GMing had partially to do with trying to please Brent. Brent still thought he could dictate personnel moves to Ted when Ted took over. Not so.
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