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Offline wpr  
#16 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2013 9:17:16 AM(UTC)

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Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
I haven't a clue how we got to this from James Jones saying he thinks he is a number one WR, but I'll roll ... to your statement I inquire, how many elite QB's are in the NFL currently? Let us say half dozen. Now, imagine one falls to the Packers ... you wouldn't want that?

The Packers could trade said elite QB to an AFC team for the following randomly selected picks not based on any trade previously conducted in the NFL ...

1st round pick
2nd round pick
6th round pick

1st round pick
2nd round pick
2nd round pick
3rd round pick

1st round pick (conditional)


Formo knows what I'm talking about! hahahahaha


funny. you can be a dog at times but it is still funny. [grin1]

after all I would do the deal if I were in charge of the vickies.
Offline Porforis  
#17 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2013 9:37:01 AM(UTC)

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wpr said: Go to Quoted Post
no #1 receiver. They don't even line up in the same position every down. Mix and match and look for the open receiver as long as Aaron Rodgers is willing to hold it for 8 seconds so they can get the big play down field and inflate Rodgers stats so that one day he can wipe out all of Brett's records.


Or he can just toss it up after 4 seconds each time before he has a chance to escape the pocket regardless of whether or not pressure's there, and only beat Favre's INT record.
Offline Porforis  
#18 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2013 9:40:13 AM(UTC)

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Rockmolder said: Go to Quoted Post
Nelson isn't elite, Jones isn't elite and Cobb isn't elite. I can't think of a whole lot of teams where any of these guys would be the nr. 1 receiver.


Jones was playing like a #1 last season, whether he can continue at that level remains to be seen. Hard to tell with Nelson with all the time he missed but he'd be a solid #2 or low-end #1 IMO. Cobb isn't there yet but let's see how he does in his second year as a key piece of the offense... But I can't see him being a traditional #1 considering his playmaking abilities from the backfield or in the slot.
Offline steveishere  
#19 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2013 10:29:21 AM(UTC)

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Rockmolder said: Go to Quoted Post

Favre's stints with Walker and Sharpe always come to mind for me. Favre was always good with his bunch of decent wide receivers, but in the small portions of time that Sharpe and Walker were absolutely dominant, it changed everything. Those "dumb throw to nowhere" became catchable balls with those guys. The nr. 1 CB all of a sudden had something to worry about and defenses had to pull a safety to one side. It just changes the entire offense.

I don't think it'd be pretty dumb if the right guy falls.


The offenses best years under Favre were with Freeman as the top WR. "The right guy" as in a legit elite WR (that's what it would take for a rookie to start or get significant snaps on this team) is quite a long shot to fall to #26. Since that's not likely to happen then "hopefully" they aren't taking a WR in the 1st round.
Offline Wade  
#20 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2013 10:53:43 AM(UTC)

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I like James Jones, a lot. But I'd rather he wasn't the number one receiver.

I like Randall Cobb, a lot. But I'd rather he wasn't the number one receiver.

I like Jordy Nelson, a lot. But I'd rather he wasn't the number one receiver.

I think speed is over-rated when it comes to deciding who is the number one receiver. I think the keys for a #1 are (i) ability to separate at the line of scrimmage, (ii) quality of "evasive moves"; (iii) precision of route-running; and (iv) excellent hands.

That's why I think the Packers will likely miss Jennings more than people think. He is excellent at (i) and frigging outstanding at (ii) and (iii). I'm not worried about the hands of any of the three, not anymore. But while Cobb has sick moves, I don't think any of the remaining three have Jennings separation ability and route-running skills. And Nelson and Jones don't have his moves.

That combination is why Jennings is going to get big bucks from someone. And I hope it isn't someone in our division.

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Rockmolder on 2/21/2013(UTC)
Offline dfosterf  
#21 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2013 11:26:27 AM(UTC)

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I like this kid Jarrett Boykin. He reminds me of JAMES JONES!, and everyone should know by now how I feel about that, Laugh as I prefer to remind everyone CONSTANTLY that I HAD HIM in the TEETH of you NAYSAYERS Razz I don't even think Boykin is slow like many say.

I can't believe Rock is getting off a book-end to CMIII to think WR. I'm not seeing it. We are still good at WR, imo.

Offline Zero2Cool  
#22 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2013 11:34:59 AM(UTC)

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I'd rather see Greg Jennings signed and see James Jones traded for a 2nd/3rd. Jennings injuries have me worried though so I can't say I'm hoping for that. I've always like James Jones, I just think Jennings compliments Cobb and Nelson better than Jones does.

Packers need a WR that will stretch the field. Someone with some speed.
Offline dfosterf  
#23 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2013 11:42:04 AM(UTC)

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I don't think we have the line or running game for a stretcher of the field. We do have a laser-accurate QB, and guys like Jones are very hard to cover without incurring PI penalties, as DB's have a tough time with physical WR's, at least as much as they do with burners, imo

I hate to see Jennings go, but I say we have bigger problems, notwithstanding what SEEMS to be an erosion of talent on the WR front.
Offline steveishere  
#24 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2013 12:57:58 PM(UTC)

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Wade said: Go to Quoted Post
I like James Jones, a lot. But I'd rather he wasn't the number one receiver.

I like Randall Cobb, a lot. But I'd rather he wasn't the number one receiver.

I like Jordy Nelson, a lot. But I'd rather he wasn't the number one receiver.


None of those guys are "the number 1 receiver" because all 3 of them are. Why is everyone stuck in this mindset that a team has to have a number 1 guy and then a bunch of supplimentary players? I don't see anything wrong with having 3-4 equally dangerous players that can hit a big play at any time. The fact of the matter is from top to bottom this team still has one of the most dangerous wr sets in the league.

What needs to improve is the blocking up front and the running game needs to be good enough that it can offer some support.
thanks Post received 1 applause.
dfosterf on 2/21/2013(UTC)
Offline wpr  
#25 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2013 1:34:50 PM(UTC)

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There are only 2 WR that could be considered "elite" in this draft.

Code:
Rank	Player		    Rank	School	        Class	Ht.	  Wt.	Proj. Round
13	*Keenan Allen	        1	California	      Jr	6-3	  210	1
19	*Cordarrelle Patterson	2	Tennessee	      Jr    6-3	  205	1
35	*DeAndre Hopkins	    3	Clemson	           Jr	6-1	  200	1-2


If all the other teams are grabbing OL, DL and LB then it makes sense to take Allen or Patterson if they fall that far. I just don't see it happening. Hopkins may be a 1st round pick but that doesn't make him elite.

I have seen a few other WR near Hopkins boards but once again. Not elite.
Some boards have Patterson rated higher than Allen. Some have them closer to the 26th pick than this board does.

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Rockmolder on 2/21/2013(UTC)
Offline wpr  
#26 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2013 1:57:26 PM(UTC)

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steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
None of those guys are "the number 1 receiver" because all 3 of them are. Why is everyone stuck in this mindset that a team has to have a number 1 guy and then a bunch of supplimentary players? I don't see anything wrong with having 3-4 equally dangerous players that can hit a big play at any time. The fact of the matter is from top to bottom this team still has one of the most dangerous wr sets in the league.

What needs to improve is the blocking up front and the running game needs to be good enough that it can offer some support.


Add to the equation that most teams don't have 3 cb who can consistently cover all the of these wr. Therefore the Wr who has a poor cover guy on him defaults to a #1 wr and have the ability to separate from the defender at the los and will seemingly have a more explosive move. There route running and hands are already pretty good. Yes they all have had periods of dropping catchable balls.
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nerdmann on 2/21/2013(UTC)
Offline doddpower  
#27 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2013 2:02:38 PM(UTC)

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If Ted Thompson has a wide receiver rated as the best player available at pick 26, he should absolutely (and likely will) draft him, regardless of how many snaps he may get this season. That's a silly way to look at things, as I have described in another thread. Besides, that could all change before the season even starts. The Packers receiving group of Nelson, Jones, Cobb, and maybe Finley sounds pretty good, but one injury leaves the group thin and not nearly as dangerous, especially without a running game. Additionally, who knows what's going to happen to Finley, but I'm sure that will be settled by the draft. Even if he stays this season, perhaps he leaves next, again leaving another hole in the receiving group. I like Boykin, but he'll be hard pressed to ever be more than a true #4 WR. A team can't simply address needs as they have them and consistently be successful. They have to plan and draft ahead.

I'm hoping the best player available is a defensive linemen or a pass rusher, but if it works out to be a wide receiver, than I totally understand the pick.
Offline RajiRoar  
#28 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2013 2:09:26 PM(UTC)

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I'd like to see Quinton Patton in the 2nd or 3rd.

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Offline wpr  
#29 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2013 2:30:20 PM(UTC)

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doddpower said: Go to Quoted Post
If Ted Thompson has a wide receiver rated as the best player available at pick 26, he should absolutely (and likely will) draft him, regardless of how many snaps he may get this season. That's a silly way to look at things, as I have described in another thread. Besides, that could all change before the season even starts. The Packers receiving group of Nelson, Jones, Cobb, and maybe Finley sounds pretty good, but one injury leaves the group thin and not nearly as dangerous, especially without a running game. Additionally, who knows what's going to happen to Finley, but I'm sure that will be settled by the draft. Even if he stays this season, perhaps he leaves next, again leaving another hole in the receiving group. I like Boykin, but he'll be hard pressed to ever be more than a true #4 WR. A team can't simply address needs as they have them and consistently be successful. They have to plan and draft ahead.

I'm hoping the best player available is a defensive linemen or a pass rusher, but if it works out to be a wide receiver, than I totally understand the pick.



yep.
Offline porky88  
#30 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2013 3:47:02 PM(UTC)

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Rockmolder said: Go to Quoted Post
What team would you imagine our guys could join and slip into the nr. 1 receiver role? I don't think that any of the guys on our roster have the ability to carry a receiving group, to get bracketed and still produce, to be that one receiver you throw to out of desperation and still have a good chance of him coming up with it...

I agree with you that Cobb has made some amazing progression, but he doesn't look like that X or Z guy to me who'd I'd like to see as my leading receiver.

I think that Jones, Nelson and Cobb would all start for just about any team in the NFL, but they wouldn't be the vocal point of the offense. Not the main targets.

Jets (Santonio Holmes), Bills (Steve Johnson), Dolphins (Brian Hartline), Browns (Josh Gordon), Jaguars (Laurent Robinson), Titans (Kenny Britt), Raiders (Denarius Moore), Chargers (Malcom Floyd), Eagles (DeSean Jackson), Redskins (Pierre Garcon), Rams (Danny Amendola), & Seahawks (Sidney Rice).

Those are the definite teams off the top of my head. I believe there's another half a dozen worth debating. For example, I think Cobb and Nelson are better than Anquan Boldin and Torrey Smith. The game is changing. You don't need an outside threat as your go-to guy. Teams are attacking the middle of the field with a slot-man. The Packers have done so the better part of the last six years with Greg Jennings. Take 2010 as an example. Green Bay won a Super Bowl that year with Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, and James Jones.

Jermichael Finley was hurt and Donald Driver was well on his way in decline. You're telling me that the drop off from Jennings to Cobb is that significant.

I don't agree with that. The only thing Jennings does significantly better than Cobb is route running, which he's among the best in the league at doing. Cobb is more explosive, though.

Two years ago, Jordy Nelson had an amazing season. Pro Football Outsiders actually rated it among the best of all-time. People seem to forget about it.

Rockmolder said: Go to Quoted Post
Favre's stints with Walker and Sharpe always come to mind for me. Favre was always good with his bunch of decent wide receivers, but in the small portions of time that Sharpe and Walker were absolutely dominant, it changed everything. Those "dumb throw to nowhere" became catchable balls with those guys. The nr. 1 CB all of a sudden had something to worry about and defenses had to pull a safety to one side. It just changes the entire offense.

This is not the history I remember. Sterling Sharpe retired after the ‘94 season, which was Favre’s first really good year. Following that season, Favre won his three MVP awards with Robert Brooks and Antonio Freeman as his go-to receivers. The Packers also had outstanding tight ends in Mark Chmura and Keith Jackson.

Javon Walker had one 1,000-yard season with the Packers. It came in ‘04, which was a typical Favre season under Sherman. He threw a lot of touchdowns, but also a lot of interceptions.

Regarding the draft, this draft is thin at wide receiver. I don't think there's one player that comes in and makes an immediate impact. I guess maybe Patterson, but any selection of a wide receiver is part of the long-term future of the Packers. You trade up to draft Patterson, and you're preparing for when Nelson and Jones depart when their contract is up. In other words, it's an economic argument, which to Ted Thompson’s credit, I think he saw coming when he drafted Randall Cobb two years ago. Just substitute Player A for Cobb and Nelson or Jones for Jennings. That’s where I think wide receiver enters the radar.
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Rockmolder on 2/21/2013(UTC), dfosterf on 2/21/2013(UTC)
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