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Offline buckeyepackfan  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, February 20, 2013 5:04:04 PM(UTC)
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JustJeff said: Go to Quoted Post
I was looking for a Ron Wolf article... no luck.

But I stumbled across this nugget from the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel...


Later in the article...


Still later...


The money shot...


Mike Sherman's reign of terror had begun.

Can I get an LOL


Just to b e clear:
Mike Sherman took over an 8-8 team after the 1999 season.

2000 as Head coach only.......9-7 missed playoffs

Named GM/HC after 2000 season

2001 12-4 reg season....1-1 playoffs(beat SF, loss to Rams)
2002 12-4 reg season....0-1 playoffs(loss to Falcons)
2003 10-6 reg season....1-1 playoffs(beat Seattle loss to Philly)
2004 9-7 reg season....0-1 playoffs(loss to Vikings)

5 years.....52-28 reg season....2-4 playoffs

Reign of terror????

How can you blame Mike Sherman?

The whole thing started 2 years before mike Sherman ever came to Green Bay.

Anyone remember why Holmgren got on a plane in SF and went to Seattle instead of coming back to Green Bay??????
Because he wanted more player control, he wanted to be GM/HC, those in charge at the time refused his wishes so he left.

Ray Rhodes 1 yr wonder(whoops those in charge realize they have made a HUGE mistake)

Enter Mike Sherman after 1 year of being HC, he is given the power that was refused to MiKe Holmgen.

The GM/HC experiment was a total disaster in most places, blame Mike Sherman if you want, but remember it was THE GUYS UPSTAIRS who made these dumbass moves.

Who knows what would have happened if Mike Holmgren would have stayed in Green Bay?

I know it's "the in thing" around here to Make fun of The Mike Sherman years, but when you take a look back at what really happened, it wasn't bad at all, The Packers could never get over the hump in his 5 years and win it all.

Reign of terror???? I think not
Overwelmed after 4years of being GM/HC, that's probably closer to the truth.
Offline Rockmolder  
#17 Posted : Wednesday, February 20, 2013 5:49:05 PM(UTC)
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buckeyepackfan said: Go to Quoted Post
Just to b e clear:
Mike Sherman took over an 8-8 team after the 1999 season.

2000 as Head coach only.......9-7 missed playoffs

Named GM/HC after 2000 season

2001 12-4 reg season....1-1 playoffs(beat SF, loss to Rams)
2002 12-4 reg season....0-1 playoffs(loss to Falcons)
2003 10-6 reg season....1-1 playoffs(beat Seattle loss to Philly)
2004 9-7 reg season....0-1 playoffs(loss to Vikings)

5 years.....52-28 reg season....2-4 playoffs

Reign of terror????

How can you blame Mike Sherman?

The whole thing started 2 years before mike Sherman ever came to Green Bay.

Anyone remember why Holmgren got on a plane in SF and went to Seattle instead of coming back to Green Bay??????
Because he wanted more player control, he wanted to be GM/HC, those in charge at the time refused his wishes so he left.

Ray Rhodes 1 yr wonder(whoops those in charge realize they have made a HUGE mistake)

Enter Mike Sherman after 1 year of being HC, he is given the power that was refused to MiKe Holmgen.

The GM/HC experiment was a total disaster in most places, blame Mike Sherman if you want, but remember it was THE GUYS UPSTAIRS who made these dumbass moves.

Who knows what would have happened if Mike Holmgren would have stayed in Green Bay?

I know it's "the in thing" around here to Make fun of The Mike Sherman years, but when you take a look back at what really happened, it wasn't bad at all, The Packers could never get over the hump in his 5 years and win it all.

Reign of terror???? I think not
Overwelmed after 4years of being GM/HC, that's probably closer to the truth.


I agree that it's not as much a reign of terror as it is a man trying to do something he just can't do.

Sherman just isn't a GM.

I like the facts you show, but they don't tell the whole story.

Sherman inherited a pretty decent team not too long after the SB run, with which even Ray managed to go 8-8.

The real problem started to arise when it came to the continuity of the team. He drafted awfully in 2003 and 2004. 2002 was somewhat ok, but Javon Walker turned out to be a headcase and behind him, we didn't get a whole lot out of that draft, either, with not a whole lot of pics. We did pick up Kampman and Dookie Davenport, though.

I'm leaving 2001 out because Wolf still drafted that year.

Next to that, when Ted took over, he first had to get the salary cap mess straightened out. That pretty much devestated our O-line and was a big factor in going 6-10.

Sherman's coaching was ok and, at the time, the verdict on his GM skills was still out there. Looking back now, though, you can see that he just didn't do a very good job. Something felt not as hard when he still was GM, but that left its marks after he left.
Offline porky88  
#18 Posted : Wednesday, February 20, 2013 6:24:13 PM(UTC)
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Sherman inherited a team with one of the greatest quarterbacks in NFL history and never managed to advance to the NFC championship. Ron Wolf also built him a quality roster. Chad Clifton, Mark Tauscher, Ahmad Green, Donald Driver, Darren Sharper, Mike Wahle, Marco Rivera, Mike Flanagan, Mike McKenzie, and Bubba Franks were all quality players. Many are future inductees into the Packer Hall of Fame.

Mike Sherman's tenure in Green Bay was good on paper, but ultimately, underachieving. Perhaps if Ron Wolf stayed another two or three years, and maybe things would've turned out much different.
thanks Post received 1 applause.
PWT36 on 2/21/2013(UTC)
Offline buckeyepackfan  
#19 Posted : Wednesday, February 20, 2013 6:46:31 PM(UTC)
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Agreed porky,

Mike Sherman had to deal with these guys as a HC, then turn around and try to negotiate with them and their agents as the GM.
Pretty much been proven that that's not a winning formula.

Wasn't the Mike McKenzie fiasco with him holding out then coming in to play then being sent to New orleans pretty much the final straw?

No way can 1 man deal with players on the field, then deal with them as mal-contants off the field.

When this subject comes up I always wonder how Mike McCarthy would do as GM/HC, or how Ted Thompson would do as the same?

Thankfully The Packer organization learned form their mistake and hopefully it will never be repeated.

I do wonder from time to time just what woud have happened if Holmgen was allowed the power he wanted and stayed in Green Bay ?
Oh well if's and but's..........
Offline nerdmann  
#20 Posted : Wednesday, February 20, 2013 10:24:30 PM(UTC)
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Sherman sucked as GM, but he also was more interested in making the team a country club for his buddies than a championship organization. Mainly because a guy like Rosseley totally sucked shit. Mike Stock too. What was that special teams coach's name?

He totally sucked as ST coach, but they kept him around, because he was Sherman's snitch. Even when he "retired" and they hired a new ST coach, that dude still hung around.

And the way they scapegoated Ed Donnatell was shameful.

That said, I think Sherman's biggest failing was neither his GMing or his focus on putting his friends before the organization. Imo, Sherman's biggest failure was in not standing up to Brent.

In fact, I think his GMing had partially to do with trying to please Brent. Brent still thought he could dictate personnel moves to Ted when Ted took over. Not so.
Offline JustJeff  
#21 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2013 5:55:40 AM(UTC)
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buckeyepackfan said: Go to Quoted Post

Reign of terror???? I think not
Overwelmed after 4years of being GM/HC, that's probably closer to the truth.

First of all “Reign of Terror” was a light-hearted jab at the inadequacies of Sherman as a GM.

As a GM, Sherman was a reign of terror. He took a stacked roster. He sacrificed the salary cap to keep the starters together (I viewed that as a proper strategy), but he didn’t replenish depth at all.

At the end of his run, what did he have to show for it? A roster that had grown old and massive salary cap problems.

The roster he was handed as a HC included
QB – Favre – Hasslebeck –
RB – Henderson – – Ahman Green
O-line – Winters – Flanagan – Clifton - Tauscher – Wahle – Andruzzi – Riverra – Dotson
WR – Driver – Freeman – Schroeder – Bradford
TE – Franks – Thomason - Davis
DL – Gilbert – Dotson – Holliday – K McKenzie – Hunt
LB – Bernardo Harris – Koonce – Brian Williams
CB – Mike McKenzie – Ty Wiilliams
S – Sharper – Butler
Even the specialists – Longwell – Bidwell – Rossum

Look at Sherman’s last two drafts… Ahmad Carroll, Joey Thomas, Donnell Washington, B.J. Sander, Corey Williams, Scott Wells, Nick Barnett, Kenny Peterson, James Lee, Hunter Hillenmeyer, Brennan Curtin, Chris Johnson, DeAndrew Rubin, Carl Ford and Steve Josue.

Regardless of how he got there, he WAS the GM and is accountable for what he did. Blame Harlan if you like. Call it what you will, but as a GM, he was a train wreck at best.


Offline dfosterf  
#22 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2013 11:55:24 AM(UTC)
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JustJeff said: Go to Quoted Post
First of all “Reign of Terror” was a light-hearted jab at the inadequacies of Sherman as a GM.

As a GM, Sherman was a reign of terror. He took a stacked roster. He sacrificed the salary cap to keep the starters together (I viewed that as a proper strategy), but he didn’t replenish depth at all.

At the end of his run, what did he have to show for it? A roster that had grown old and massive salary cap problems.

The roster he was handed as a HC included
QB – Favre – Hasslebeck –
RB – Henderson – – Ahman Green
O-line – Winters – Flanagan – Clifton - Tauscher – Wahle – Andruzzi – Riverra – Dotson
WR – Driver – Freeman – Schroeder – Bradford
TE – Franks – Thomason - Davis
DL – Gilbert – Dotson – Holliday – K McKenzie – Hunt
LB – Bernardo Harris – Koonce – Brian Williams
CB – Mike McKenzie – Ty Wiilliams
S – Sharper – Butler
Even the specialists – Longwell – Bidwell – Rossum

Look at Sherman’s last two drafts… Ahmad Carroll, Joey Thomas, Donnell Washington, B.J. Sander, Corey Williams, Scott Wells, Nick Barnett, Kenny Peterson, James Lee, Hunter Hillenmeyer, Brennan Curtin, Chris Johnson, DeAndrew Rubin, Carl Ford and Steve Josue.

Regardless of how he got there, he WAS the GM and is accountable for what he did. Blame Harlan if you like. Call it what you will, but as a GM, he was a train wreck at best.




http://www.packershome.c...ics3_We-Welcome-You.aspx

thanks Post received 1 applause.
Zero2Cool on 2/21/2013(UTC)
Offline JustJeff  
#23 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2013 1:49:24 PM(UTC)
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dfosterf said: Go to Quoted Post
http://www.packershome.com/yaf_topics3_We-Welcome-You.aspx


I'm not sure what to do with this information [grin1]

http://www.packershome.c...6312_Sup.aspx#post236312
Offline dfosterf  
#24 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2013 2:14:38 PM(UTC)
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JustJeff said: Go to Quoted Post
I'm not sure what to do with this information [grin1]

http://www.packershome.c...6312_Sup.aspx#post236312


We would like you to really tell us about yourself. I'm personally impressed, thusfar. Get Pack93z to give you the "interview". You look like a big-league contributor.
Your "Sup?" is good, we like to standardize, as we are kinda dumb, lol
Here's mine:

Just follow the script, or add to as needed--

http://www.packershome.c...Interview--Dfosterf.aspx

I think I can speak for all when I say it's one of our favorite things to read...
Offline wpr  
#25 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2013 3:15:19 PM(UTC)
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dfosterf said: Go to Quoted Post
We would like you to really tell us about yourself. I'm personally impressed, thusfar. Get Pack93z to give you the "interview". You look like a big-league contributor.
Your "Sup?" is good, we like to standardize, as we are kinda dumb, lol
Here's mine:

Just follow the script, or add to as needed--

http://www.packershome.c...Interview--Dfosterf.aspx

I think I can speak for all when I say it's one of our favorite things to read...


you can and you frequently do. [laughing]
Offline buckeyepackfan  
#26 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2013 3:49:55 PM(UTC)
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JustJeff said: Go to Quoted Post
First of all “Reign of Terror” was a light-hearted jab at the inadequacies of Sherman as a GM.

As a GM, Sherman was a reign of terror. He took a stacked roster. He sacrificed the salary cap to keep the starters together (I viewed that as a proper strategy), but he didn’t replenish depth at all.

At the end of his run, what did he have to show for it? A roster that had grown old and massive salary cap problems.

The roster he was handed as a HC included
QB – Favre – Hasslebeck –
RB – Henderson – – Ahman Green
O-line – Winters – Flanagan – Clifton - Tauscher – Wahle – Andruzzi – Riverra – Dotson
WR – Driver – Freeman – Schroeder – Bradford
TE – Franks – Thomason - Davis
DL – Gilbert – Dotson – Holliday – K McKenzie – Hunt
LB – Bernardo Harris – Koonce – Brian Williams
CB – Mike McKenzie – Ty Wiilliams
S – Sharper – Butler
Even the specialists – Longwell – Bidwell – Rossum

Look at Sherman’s last two drafts… Ahmad Carroll, Joey Thomas, Donnell Washington, B.J. Sander, Corey Williams, Scott Wells, Nick Barnett, Kenny Peterson, James Lee, Hunter Hillenmeyer, Brennan Curtin, Chris Johnson, DeAndrew Rubin, Carl Ford and Steve Josue.

Regardless of how he got there, he WAS the GM and is accountable for what he did. Blame Harlan if you like. Call it what you will, but as a GM, he was a train wreck at best.




"Train Wreck" is a much better description.

Mike Sherman was put in a "No win" situation, that nobody could forsee until it all played out.

I do blame Harlan and co.

They had the chance to give Holmgren the same power but refused, why??? I don't know, all I know is 2 years after they let Holmgren go, they decided Mike Sherman was the man who could handle both jobs.

I never said Sherman wasn't accountable.

He was the GM/HC,the failed experiment of several NFL operations.

1 man cannot do both jobs.

Unlike some on this forum, I don't begrudge ex-players and ex-coaches.

Packer history is what it is.

I'm pretty sure Mike Sherman did the best he could, the decisions he made,were in his mind the ones that needed to be made to keep The Packers competitivie.

He missed on quite a few players his last 2 drafts, and he was replaced as GM and Fired as HC.

I still respect the guy as a HC, and am glad to see he is back in the NFL.
thanks Post received 2 applause.
JustJeff on 2/21/2013(UTC), macbob on 3/2/2013(UTC)
Offline dfosterf  
#27 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2013 3:59:50 PM(UTC)
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I don't remember reading an interview from Andy. I'm gettin' older, so if he threw one up, I apologize.
Offline JustJeff  
#28 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2013 5:45:21 PM(UTC)
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buckeyepackfan said: Go to Quoted Post

I still respect the guy as a HC, and am glad to see he is back in the NFL.

I like to laugh at Sherman because it's easy to do. If you think I'm not a fan, you've greatly misread me. I agree with your assessment that as a GM he was in over his head.

As a coach, he had a few teams overachieve and a few that disappointed. That goes with the territory. Overall, he was a very good coach. I rooted for him to nail down the Bills job that he interviewed for right after we let him go.

Sherman bought permanent admiration from his locker-room - and the fans whether the know it or not - when he sought out Warren Sapp after the ultimate cheap shot he laid on Clifton. Sherman was downright heroic that night.

I know I'm the new guy, so my quirks and idiosyncrasies aren't obvious yet. I can also be keyboard verbose. I was poking at Sherman for fun - not out of disdain.

Offline macbob  
#29 Posted : Saturday, March 2, 2013 11:10:10 AM(UTC)
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buckeyepackfan said: Go to Quoted Post
Just to b e clear:
Mike Sherman took over an 8-8 team after the 1999 season.

2000 as Head coach only.......9-7 missed playoffs

Named GM/HC after 2000 season

2001 12-4 reg season....1-1 playoffs(beat SF, loss to Rams)
2002 12-4 reg season....0-1 playoffs(loss to Falcons)
2003 10-6 reg season....1-1 playoffs(beat Seattle loss to Philly)
2004 9-7 reg season....0-1 playoffs(loss to Vikings)

5 years.....52-28 reg season....2-4 playoffs

Reign of terror????

How can you blame Mike Sherman?

The whole thing started 2 years before mike Sherman ever came to Green Bay.

Anyone remember why Holmgren got on a plane in SF and went to Seattle instead of coming back to Green Bay??????
Because he wanted more player control, he wanted to be GM/HC, those in charge at the time refused his wishes so he left.

Ray Rhodes 1 yr wonder(whoops those in charge realize they have made a HUGE mistake)

Enter Mike Sherman after 1 year of being HC, he is given the power that was refused to MiKe Holmgen.

The GM/HC experiment was a total disaster in most places, blame Mike Sherman if you want, but remember it was THE GUYS UPSTAIRS who made these dumbass moves.

Who knows what would have happened if Mike Holmgren would have stayed in Green Bay?

I know it's "the in thing" around here to Make fun of The Mike Sherman years, but when you take a look back at what really happened, it wasn't bad at all, The Packers could never get over the hump in his 5 years and win it all.

Reign of terror???? I think not
Overwelmed after 4years of being GM/HC, that's probably closer to the truth.


IMO, Mike Sherman was a terrific head coach, and one of the lousiest GMs ever. The constant trading up in the draft left us with fewer draft picks each year, which meant we really had to hit on the picks or we were in trouble. The depth on the team was declining year after year, and with misses like Sanders and Ahmad Carroll we were doomed to years of mediocrity if Sherman had remained on as GM. We were OK as long as our starters were on the field, but if an injury occured we were road kill.
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