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Offline Yerko  
#46 Posted : Wednesday, February 27, 2013 12:57:54 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
Agreed completely.. but in a case like this, a kid looking for redemption and a ticket to potential millions.. showing up and only hitting a low number on one of the core events is going to raise more questions than anything.

He would have been better served passing on the event/test, even though that might have drawn criticism as well.


True. Everything that I have read about his combine performance (minus the bench press) has his stock rising. He excelled in everything but the bench press. It would be nice to see if there was any information on how he lifted in college when he played because I have a suspicion that the 1 year layoff has nothing to do with the lack of his bench press numbers.

The one year layoff and his off field actions are the biggest concerns, not his bench press.

Btw, I don't disagree that four is an awful number. He would have been better off just skipping the test.

I feel that bench press numbers are usually all over the board throughout different positions. Some of the better offensive linemen sometimes only hit the teens on the bench press, but they still excel on the field.

I'm a combine junky but some tests have to be taken with a grain of salt. Sometimes I wish they added a squat test to the combine. How many times can a player properly squat 225 pounds?
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Offline wpr  
#47 Posted : Wednesday, February 27, 2013 1:21:09 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Yerko Go to Quoted Post
True. Everything that I have read about his combine performance (minus the bench press) has his stock rising. He excelled in everything but the bench press. It would be nice to see if there was any information on how he lifted in college when he played because I have a suspicion that the 1 year layoff has nothing to do with the lack of his bench press numbers.

The one year layoff and his off field actions are the biggest concerns, not his bench press.

Btw, I don't disagree that four is an awful number. He would have been better off just skipping the test.

I feel that bench press numbers are usually all over the board throughout different positions. Some of the better offensive linemen sometimes only hit the teens on the bench press, but they still excel on the field.

I'm a combine junky but some tests have to be taken with a grain of salt. Sometimes I wish they added a squat test to the combine. How many times can a player properly squat 225 pounds?



I have to wonder if the whole combine test is a waste of time or not.

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Offline Pack93z  
#48 Posted : Wednesday, February 27, 2013 1:27:41 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Yerko Go to Quoted Post


The one year layoff and his off field actions are the biggest concerns, not his bench press.



But the bench press is a product of work ethic in the weight room.. you get more out of it the more you invest.

What that number tells me, in this case anyway, that he has been out of the program for a year leaving him to continue to workout on his own. That number tells me he isn't putting in the time in the weight room.. either than or he truly lacks strength, upper body strength at that.

Why is the important.. at the NFL level there is increased contact in the 5 yard zone with stronger elite athletes week in and out at receiver. If he lacks the upper body strength to compete with them, that is going to limit the ways I can use him in coverage. But that can be fixed.. so I agree it is limited because in a NFL program you should be able to rectify that with training.

So it goes back to really how hard is he willing to work off the field to get on the field. That is what that number tells me with this case.

I am not a consumer of combine numbers.. I think how they perform on the field greatly outweighs the underwear Olympics.. but in the same regard, some potential red flags can be raised which will require a team to do more homework on a prospect.

Now couple a couple of questions together with a red flag or two at the combine.. and you will have teams the will remove him from their draft board or push him down the board at least.

My opinion.. this kid is sitting their say round 6.. I say I take him. I think his football instincts are noticeable on the field and film.. pop even.

The reason I note his bench press, is I think it may help push him further down the draft board to where for me.. the risk / reward aspect swings in line and I pick him. Not that he will not or can not become a player.


I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline Yerko  
#49 Posted : Wednesday, February 27, 2013 2:03:54 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
But the bench press is a product of work ethic in the weight room.. you get more out of it the more you invest.

What that number tells me, in this case anyway, that he has been out of the program for a year leaving him to continue to workout on his own. That number tells me he isn't putting in the time in the weight room.. either than or he truly lacks strength, upper body strength at that.

Why is the important.. at the NFL level there is increased contact in the 5 yard zone with stronger elite athletes week in and out at receiver. If he lacks the upper body strength to compete with them, that is going to limit the ways I can use him in coverage. But that can be fixed.. so I agree it is limited because in a NFL program you should be able to rectify that with training.

So it goes back to really how hard is he willing to work off the field to get on the field. That is what that number tells me with this case.

I am not a consumer of combine numbers.. I think how they perform on the field greatly outweighs the underwear Olympics.. but in the same regard, some potential red flags can be raised which will require a team to do more homework on a prospect.

Now couple a couple of questions together with a red flag or two at the combine.. and you will have teams the will remove him from their draft board or push him down the board at least.

My opinion.. this kid is sitting their say round 6.. I say I take him. I think his football instincts are noticeable on the field and film.. pop even.

The reason I note his bench press, is I think it may help push him further down the draft board to where for me.. the risk / reward aspect swings in line and I pick him. Not that he will not or can not become a player.




I totally agree with you and what you said does make sense. However, I really do not think he will be there round 6. If he is, then I am on board with you in taking him. I just think everything else he did in the draft "popped" and it is being said it can elevate his draft value. I'm wondering if he got into a school's pro day. I would like to see his testing done there to see if anything changes from now to then.

I see a team taking him at the earliest, 5th round. Maybe even a real desperate team late in the 4th.

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Offline Zero2Cool  
#50 Posted : Friday, April 12, 2013 9:55:03 AM(UTC)
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“I quit counting at 10,” Mathieu answered. “I really don’t know.”

The assistant who passed along that story also told USA Today that Mathieu’s statement had him questioning LSU as much as he questions Mathieu.

“If he flunked 10 tests before they suspended him, it shows that he got no kind of help,” the coach said.





...


geez
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play2win on 4/12/2013(UTC)
Offline play2win  
#51 Posted : Saturday, April 13, 2013 5:36:34 AM(UTC)
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This is a guy who is a great natural player, but just too high of a risk to take a chance on. I wonder if he'll even be drafted....

Reminds me A LOT of Vontaze Burfict from last year's draft:

"Vontaze Burfict was awful in every possible way at the NFL Combine last year.
He ran slower than any linebacker, jumped poorly, and failed his interviews with NFL teams.
The performance was so bad that he went undrafted despite being a consensus first-round pick last winter.
But in a twist that makes you question the value of the Combine, ultimately none of that mattered. He signed with the Bengals as a free agent, got promoted to starter early in the year, and was the team's best linebacker by the playoffs.
Burfict looked to be a total mess at this time last year, so it's unfair to criticize the writers who bashed him too badly.
But his story just goes to show yow how a Combine performance (good or bad) can be blown totally out of proportion.
Here's what people were saying about Burfict last year.
Bob Young, The Arizona Republic:
"He didn't even bother with the bench-press test or shuttle runs. So, let's see: No speed. No explosiveness. No competitive spirit.
"Yep, you want to invest millions of dollars in this guy."
Don Banks, SI, who gave him the "Career Self-Destruction Award":
"Burfict had a nice week. He proclaimed himself the "best linebacker in this draft,'' blamed everyone else but himself for his shaky 2011 season, defended his decision to "swing on'' a teammate in a locker-room fight last year, and then ran a disappointing 5.09 and broad-jumped just 8 feet, 7 inches. This is a guy who came across to the league as having blind spots the size of, well, the Grand Canyon, which coincidentally is in Arizona.
"Burfict thinks he's a misunderstood first-round talent. The league is more likely to give him an underachiever's third-round grade. And factoring in his winning personality and personal baggage, don't be surprised if you don't hear his name called on draft weekend until the third and final day."
Mike Mayock, NFL Network:
“I put his tape on with absolutely zero preconceived notions. I watched three tapes and really didn’t like him as a football player. I think he’s a non-draftable kid. For me, he’s a free agent.”
An unnamed NFL scout (via CBS Sports):
"I wouldn't touch him. He does have some talent, but he is so undisciplined on and off the field. The guy is completely out of control. There's no way you could trust him. I can't believe they (ASU coaching staff) didn't cut him loose."
ESPN Scouts Inc.:
"Burfict's 2011 film says he's a third-rounder, and when you add in those results along with character baggage and poor interviews his stock is beginning to plummet."


Read more: http://www.businessinsid...ers-2013-2#ixzz2QLWSoOs6

Burfict was regarded a head case, and too high of a risk to draft. But the kid has insane talent and wound up topping all players in the NFL's Performance Based Pay Program.

Mathieu, while a giant risk, has the football intangibles and instincts to become a great player. Any team that takes him or signs him as a UFA will be assuming almost the same kind of risk, and they may reap huge rewards. It is on this level a tough call.
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