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Offline macbob  
#31 Posted : Sunday, March 3, 2013 4:12:42 PM(UTC)
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buckeyepackfan said: Go to Quoted Post
What I don't pretend to be is a GM or a coach, thinking that I can evaluate what a player is or isn't worth.


I'm not pretending to be a GM or a coach when I say I think he needs to restructure his contract down or the Packers should go another route. I'm expressing my opinion. Which is what people do on this site.

Time will tell whether or not the Packers GM decides to keep AJ at his current cost or asks him to restructure lower. Time will also tell if AJ agress to restructure and what the Packers GM will do if he doesn't.

That's what they're paying Ted Thompson to do.

I like AJ. He's assignment sure, and a good leader on defense. But do I like him $5.5M worth (his base + misc bonuses)? No.

I'm expressing the opinion that if I were GM I think there are bigger needs on the team that I would rather spend those millions on than a two-down LB.

If it's now a requirement that we have to be a GM or a coach to express an opinion on how a player is playing, what a player is worth, etc, then I think
Offline warhawk  
#32 Posted : Sunday, March 3, 2013 5:29:39 PM(UTC)
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Hawk is a steady player but not dynamic so the question is what is steady worth? He doesn't sack the QB or force a lot of fumbles or even make many tackles behind the LOS. He's not really even stout against the run although I did see him more involved up by the LOS then I have in past years.
Again, you have LB's that make dynamic plays but screw up assignments too but you don't hear about that as much as the sack in the 4th qtr with the opposing team driving the ball.
If he did that a little more often there wouldn't be the need for this much discussion.
Offline steveishere  
#33 Posted : Sunday, March 3, 2013 10:35:07 PM(UTC)
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lol buckeye why are you acting like people here have some personal problem with Hawk? Some of your comments are completely absurd. If Hawk was the baddest ass linebacker in the world (or even a top 20 baddest ass linebacker) everyone here would love him. Nobody here dislikes Hawk because he's AJ Hawk, they dislike him because he makes a shit ton of cash and is completely meh. Regardless of where he was drafted he's just not that great of a player.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#34 Posted : Monday, March 4, 2013 5:49:56 AM(UTC)
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steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
lol buckeye why are you acting like people here have some personal problem with Hawk? Some of your comments are completely absurd. If Hawk was the baddest ass linebacker in the world (or even a top 20 baddest ass linebacker) everyone here would love him. Nobody here dislikes Hawk because he's AJ Hawk, they dislike him because he makes a shit ton of cash and is completely meh. Regardless of where he was drafted he's just not that great of a player.


Shouldn't that disdain feeling be aimed towards Ted Thompson though? He's the one who approved the contract.
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yooperfan on 3/4/2013(UTC)
Offline Yerko  
#35 Posted : Monday, March 4, 2013 9:34:05 AM(UTC)
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AJ Hawk is a serviceable ILB. Serviceable ILBs do not deserve to be the 4th highest paid on a team. Restructure or bring your talents to another team.

Desmond Bishop is coming off a nasty injury and still is in rehab. Last heard, he said he was around 80%. Risk of re-injury...high.

DJ Smith is coming off a nasty injury as well. No news on recovery so far. Knee injury so mark it as a risk of re-injury...high.

Brad Jones is a career back-up.
Quote:
Would you rather allocate those dollars to a younger player like Brad Jones?

No.

Dezman Moses is still a rookie. I like what he has done but it isn't enough to put stock in a starting role for him.

With all that said, while I think the best option is to keep AJ Hawk with the Packers with a restructured contract and also draft an ILB within the first 3 rounds that can come in and have an instant impact. To me, it just seems like regardless of what the Packers do with this position, they are gambling for next season.
Offline play2win  
#36 Posted : Monday, March 4, 2013 9:36:15 AM(UTC)
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Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
Shouldn't that disdain feeling be aimed towards Ted Thompson though? He's the one who approved the contract.


You are correct Sir!

I really, really like Ted Thompson, and I think we are lucky to have such a dedicated GM heading our team. However, he does have some misgivings in hanging onto "his" players a bit too tightly. The Hawk contract was a pretty severe overpay, only made so because Hawk made ZERO FFs, ZERO FRs, ZERO INTs, and only 3 PDef since signing that contract after winning the SB. He had ZERO PDef through 16 games last season.

I appreciate his 4.5 sacks in 2 years, and his leading the team in tackles, his seemingly improved play in 2012. But I am aware, fully aware, that he does not make many, if any, game changing plays that are often required of the QB of your defense in the middle. His being paid as one of the best LBs in the NFL, and not delivering top LB play. That is what most fans find fault with.

Ted signed him to that monster contract.

I think Ted holds to maxims a bit too often. Draft and develop. Re-sign your own players. Don't overpay. Well, if you are re-signing players who can't get you to the next level just because they are yours, your draft and develop players, that may be problematic. And, if he refuses to pay a top talent at an important position on our team to let him "test the market," he ought to make certain that he has a plan in place to cover that loss of talent. I believe that may be one of his greatest faults. It can take years for him to cover the loss of true impact players.

Getting a stud FA, or two, can go a long way toward assembling a serious talent group to go all the way. As for Hawk, his contract is limiting our options. He is a giant cap hit, and we are not getting the value for that in his level of play.
Offline play2win  
#37 Posted : Monday, March 4, 2013 9:45:23 AM(UTC)
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Yerko said: Go to Quoted Post
AJ Hawk is a serviceable ILB. Serviceable ILBs do not deserve to be the 4th highest paid on a team. Restructure or bring your talents to another team.

Desmond Bishop is coming off a nasty injury and still is in rehab. Last heard, he said he was around 80%. Risk of re-injury...high.

DJ Smith is coming off a nasty injury as well. No news on recovery so far. Knee injury so mark it as a risk of re-injury...high.

Brad Jones is a career back-up.

No.

Dezman Moses is still a rookie. I like what he has done but it isn't enough to put stock in a starting role for him.

With all that said, while I think the best option is to keep AJ Hawk with the Packers with a restructured contract and also draft an ILB within the first 3 rounds that can come in and have an instant impact. To me, it just seems like regardless of what the Packers do with this position, they are gambling for next season.


What the Packers really need, are 3 more top talents at LB. We have one. Pretty important to have exceptional LB play if your D is running a 3-4...

Brad Jones is just into the OK category - that was an improvement from the NOTHING category of the previous year. We shouldn't be counting on Jones, Smith, Hawk, Walden, Lattimore, Zombo. Bishop is a question mark, and so is Perry. I'm hopeful for Moses and Manning. The only one we can count on is Matthews, and even he has trouble staying healthy through 16 games!

This really makes me feel badly for Capers, because it is clear he has not had a whole lot to work with. Our DL sucks. Our Safeties have been struggling since losing Collins. IMO, we must add DE, NT, ILB (2) OLB (1) and S (1) this offseason to improve that talent base. Hell, why not a DT too? All of those positions require upgrades.

Ted has been "Bargain Basementing" our defense, while severely overpaying Hawk as some kind of crazy overcompensation for what? His selecting him #5 overall all those years ago? Look what that has done. Now he's got the only two DL that matter on this team coming up for re-signings in Raji and Pickett. Should be interesting. He has GOT to throw some cash at this front 7 group.
Offline Pack93z  
#38 Posted : Monday, March 4, 2013 9:46:46 AM(UTC)
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play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
You are correct Sir!

I really, really like Ted Thompson, and I think we are lucky to have such a dedicated GM heading our team. However, he does have some misgivings in hanging onto "his" players a bit too tightly. The Hawk contract was a pretty severe overpay, only made so because Hawk made ZERO FFs, ZERO FRs, ZERO INTs, and only 3 PDef since signing that contract after winning the SB. He had ZERO PDef through 16 games last season.

I appreciate his 4.5 sacks in 2 years, and his leading the team in tackles, his seemingly improved play in 2012. But I am aware, fully aware, that he does not make many, if any, game changing plays that are often required of the QB of your defense in the middle. His being paid as one of the best LBs in the NFL, and not delivering top LB play. That is what most fans find fault with.

Ted signed him to that monster contract.

I think Ted holds to maxims a bit too often. Draft and develop. Re-sign your own players. Don't overpay. Well, if you are re-signing players who can't get you to the next level just because they are yours, your draft and develop players, that may be problematic. And, if he refuses to pay a top talent at an important position on our team to let him "test the market," he ought to make certain that he has a plan in place to cover that loss of talent. I believe that may be one of his greatest faults. It can take years for him to cover the loss of true impact players.

Getting a stud FA, or two, can go a long way toward assembling a serious talent group to go all the way. As for Hawk, his contract is limiting our options. He is a giant cap hit, and we are not getting the value for that in his level of play.


Actually I think it was a move, that at the time, there were some serious questions in the depth department at the interior linebacker coupled with the release of Nick Barnett. Remember this team was coming off a SB win with a ton of players sitting on the IR.

Basically it was maybe an overpay to ensure some continuity for the defense.. especially one that calls out the plays.

If anything, especially with Jennings as an example, Ted has shown that he is impartial in terms of "his" players vs not his. I think it always comes back to the same formula, with these variables:(Value, Supply, Age and duration of contract)

Supply being on difficult it may be to replace the player.. IE do we have a suitable replacement on the roster or can I obtain one via the Draft or at value on the FA market.

Offline play2win  
#39 Posted : Monday, March 4, 2013 10:00:00 AM(UTC)
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Pack93z said: Go to Quoted Post
Actually I think it was a move, that at the time, there were some serious questions in the depth department at the interior linebacker coupled with the release of Nick Barnett. Remember this team was coming off a SB win with a ton of players sitting on the IR.

Basically it was maybe an overpay to ensure some continuity for the defense.. especially one that calls out the plays.

If anything, especially with Jennings as an example, Ted has shown that he is impartial in terms of "his" players vs not his. I think it always comes back to the same formula, with these variables:(Value, Supply, Age and duration of contract)

Supply being on difficult it may be to replace the player.. IE do we have a suitable replacement on the roster or can I obtain one via the Draft or at value on the FA market.



I would offer Hawk, Finley and Justin Harrell as some examples... impartial? Jennings is a very simple case ala James Jones. We'll see what other teams are willing to pony up. Ted has been stockpiling WRs, so the loss of Jennings to a monster offer won't hurt quite as much.

The "at value" re FA market thing is starting to get me a bit. The only impact FAs Ted has really signed to our D are Pickett and Woodson. Those signings happened at the beginning of his tenure. Since that time, any FAs signed have been strictly bottom of scale types who were 2nd or 3rd string players on their respective teams.

Ted has not had an impact signing in FA for our defense in years.
Offline Pack93z  
#40 Posted : Monday, March 4, 2013 10:17:38 AM(UTC)
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play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
I would offer Hawk, Finley and Justin Harrell as some examples... impartial?


For every Hawk I offer a Brohm (2nd),Lee (2nd), Thompson (4th), Rouse (3rd), Hodge (3rd) for examples.

I think Ted gives a pick every chance to contribute.. and if they can't he moves on. Brohm and Rouse were moved quickly off the roster..

Hawk and Finley contribute.. I think Finley contributes more in presence than overall production in terms of what strain he places on the defense in terms of match up.

Further more.. if the worst offense Ted makes is overpaying a solid NFL linebacker in Hawk.. well then I think we are in pretty good shape. :)

This from a guy that has been banging on Hawk since about 2008 for his reactive play in place of using his instincts that made him special in college.
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