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Offline play2win  
#41 Posted : Monday, March 4, 2013 10:25:34 AM(UTC)
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Pack93z said: Go to Quoted Post
For every Hawk I offer a Brohm (2nd),Lee (2nd), Thompson (4th), Rouse (3rd), Hodge (3rd) for examples.

I think Ted gives a pick every chance to contribute.. and if they can't he moves on. Brohm and Rouse were moved quickly off the roster..


touche. Well done my friend! [laughing]

Yeah, no GM is perfect. It is a tough business. I do wish that he would finally add some players alongside Pick and Raji, and Matthews for that matter. It is almost like he's hunting through the FA scrap heap and late round picks hoping for a miracle. Or is he? What exactly is he looking for?

We need some big time talent added to our D, and the draft alone will not do it.
thanks Post received 1 applause.
yooperfan on 3/4/2013(UTC)
Offline nerdmann  
#42 Posted : Monday, March 4, 2013 10:26:04 AM(UTC)
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What's with all the Brad Jones hate? Dude's our only LB who can really cover. He's an upgrade over Hawk, imo.

Now I've been as critical of Hawk as anyone, but let's keep in mind, the DL is a bit weak. The job of a 3-4 DL is to keep blockers off your LBs, so the LBs can make plays. I wouldn't necessarily say that's been happening consistently.

If we can stack the DL, I think it might help Hawk and Bishop look better.

But I still think the biggest key is having quality depth at OLB.
Offline wpr  
#43 Posted : Monday, March 4, 2013 10:31:45 AM(UTC)
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PackersHome NFL Pick'em - Gold: 2012PackersHome NFL Pick'em - Gold: 2013FleaFlicker Fantasy Football - Silver: 2014FleaFlicker Fantasy Football - Bronze: 2013

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nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
What's with all the Brad Jones hate? Dude's our only LB who can really cover. He's an upgrade over Hawk, imo.

Now I've been as critical of Hawk as anyone, but let's keep in mind, the DL is a bit weak. The job of a 3-4 DL is to keep blockers off your LBs, so the LBs can make plays. I wouldn't necessarily say that's been happening consistently.

If we can stack the DL, I think it might help Hawk and Bishop look better.

But I still think the biggest key is having quality depth at OLB.


Wow. Uncle Teddy and Mike are so stupid. They have been sticking Hawk out there play after play and game after game while leaving Jones to rot on the bench. "What the hell is going on out there?" They don't deserve to be a part of the team if they miss something as simple as this.

Let's make nerdmann GM and HC.
Offline Yerko  
#44 Posted : Monday, March 4, 2013 10:39:49 AM(UTC)
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nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
What's with all the Brad Jones hate? Dude's our only LB who can really cover. He's an upgrade over Hawk, imo.


Disagree.

Please explain.
Offline play2win  
#45 Posted : Monday, March 4, 2013 10:41:17 AM(UTC)
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nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
What's with all the Brad Jones hate? Dude's our only LB who can really cover. He's an upgrade over Hawk, imo.

Now I've been as critical of Hawk as anyone, but let's keep in mind, the DL is a bit weak. The job of a 3-4 DL is to keep blockers off your LBs, so the LBs can make plays. I wouldn't necessarily say that's been happening consistently.

If we can stack the DL, I think it might help Hawk and Bishop look better.

But I still think the biggest key is having quality depth at OLB.


I don't hate Brad Jones, and I thought last season was his best in a Packers uniform. I just think we need better talent all around at LB outside of Matthews. Jones is not one of those true ILB types. He was chosen as more of an edge rusher in the end of the 2009 draft. He did next to nothing in 2011, but played well on STs. Yes, he could improve beyond what he did in 2012.

I'm just thinking we need to be more formidable. If you have an edge rusher type filling the middle of your D.... I doubt that is what we are after in terms of improving. Our run stopping was abysmal, this after not being able to stop the pass at all the previous season. We gave up epic rushing yards last season with Hawk and Jones in the middle. I'm not saying it is all their fault. Raji looked to have regressed. CJ Wilson was just OK. Pickett was our best DL. Worthy appeared to struggle. Neal seemed inconsistent, but he flashed some promise. Hawk's play was improved last season too in my eyes. But, we need upgrades to dominant football players at both of those positions, and many others.

Your point about the DL and how their play affects the LBs is well taken. I thought, overall, our DL had another down year, making it two in a row. Better than 2011, but not by a whole lot. That down play did nothing for our LBs. Surround some of our current players with better players, and we might see some real improvement. We need at least a top LB and DL added.

FWIW, here is a little bit on Jones possibly being sought by NYG: http://www.bigblueview.c...brad-jones-mlb-green-bay
Offline nerdmann  
#46 Posted : Monday, March 4, 2013 11:38:13 AM(UTC)
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Yerko said: Go to Quoted Post
Disagree.

Please explain.


Hawk is the type of LB who is losing relevance in the NFL right now. He's not a guy who's gonna cover a TE or RB down the seam or out into the flat. He's a guy who's gonna come up and stuff the run. He will also occasionally blitz and not get home.

The fact that he never hits anyone BEHIND the LoS and also usually gets dragged for about 3-5 yards aside, he's just not the type of ILB that is needed in today's NFL. The fact is, the rules (and referee calls) in today's NFL FAVOR THE PASSING GAME. In Lombardi's day, Hawk would probably be an important part of your team. Not so today.

As for Jones, the dude can turn and run. He's never gonna hit somebody like Dez Bishop lit up Apete a few years ago, but I'd put him on a TE in coverage. Dude came on and exceeded expectations.
Offline nerdmann  
#47 Posted : Monday, March 4, 2013 11:39:37 AM(UTC)
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wpr said: Go to Quoted Post
Wow. Uncle Teddy and Mike are so stupid. They have been sticking Hawk out there play after play and game after game while leaving Jones to rot on the bench. "What the hell is going on out there?" They don't deserve to be a part of the team if they miss something as simple as this.

Let's make nerdmann GM and HC.


Your words to God's ears.
Offline QCHuskerFan  
#48 Posted : Monday, March 4, 2013 12:44:03 PM(UTC)
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play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
touche. Well done my friend! [laughing]

Yeah, no GM is perfect. It is a tough business. I do wish that he would finally add some players alongside Pick and Raji, and Matthews for that matter. It is almost like he's hunting through the FA scrap heap and late round picks hoping for a miracle. Or is he? What exactly is he looking for?

We need some big time talent added to our D, and the draft alone will not do it.


Who was our 1st rd pick last year? We had 2 2nd rd picks. How'd they do? The top 5 picks were all on D and all made an impact. They weren't all Pro Bowl caliber players but they were rookies. They need a little patience.

But don't say that he is looking to late round picks for miracles.
Offline play2win  
#49 Posted : Monday, March 4, 2013 12:59:50 PM(UTC)
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QCHuskerFan said: Go to Quoted Post
Who was our 1st rd pick last year? We had 2 2nd rd picks. How'd they do? The top 5 picks were all on D and all made an impact. They weren't all Pro Bowl caliber players but they were rookies. They need a little patience.

But don't say that he is looking to late round picks for miracles.


Dude, he needs to do more than draft players and hope they can start and make a significant impact. A GM should be more than a glorified draft scout. Make some trades. Sign some FAs. Make the team better.
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#50 Posted : Monday, March 4, 2013 1:09:05 PM(UTC)
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I think the positions Hawk has played, and how the team has used him has hurt his marketability. When he was drafted at #5, he was said to be the safest pick in the draft, blue collar. He hasn't been asked to be the playmaker. He has been asked to be guy the is there in case the playmaker, misses. Hawk is asked to be the lead blitzer who frees up others. When there are stretch plays to the opposite side, you see Bishop or Barnett before him, trying to slip past the lead blockers to make the tackle for loss. Which sometimes workes and sometimes doesn't. When it works it is great, when it doesn't, it usually results in a bigger gain because the blockers are still there. When plays come Hawks way, he will take out the blockers so others can make the tackle. It doesn't produce the big loss, but it usually doesn't result in big gains either.

In coverage, I am not sure what people expect. Most of the time, when his guy gets the ball, Hawk is on him immediately for the tackle. In most cases, they are not plays where he could do anything to prevent the pass. They are TE dragging across the field in front of him. He could PI or hold and stop the catch but that doesn't help. No he isn't going to be able to run downfield with Vernon Davis, neither are any of the other LBers we have including Clay. Our other LBers are faster and better in coverage than AJ, ok so he only plays when there is a running threat. He may be the worst in coverage of our MLBers. He is also the best run defender of them. Neither Bishop or Smith could replace Hawk, Neither could Barnett. they are different types of players. Jones, might be able to, he has the size, not sure about the discipline.

That being said. I think our best option is to restructure AJ, and Sign Jones. I like them playing together. Jones is bigger and faster than both Bishop and Smith. Let Jones be the full time ILB with Hawk on the backside to protect.
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