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play2win  
#41 Posted : Monday, March 4, 2013 10:25:34 AM(UTC)
Pack93z said: Go to Quoted Post
For every Hawk I offer a Brohm (2nd),Lee (2nd), Thompson (4th), Rouse (3rd), Hodge (3rd) for examples.

I think Ted gives a pick every chance to contribute.. and if they can't he moves on. Brohm and Rouse were moved quickly off the roster..


touche. Well done my friend! [laughing]

Yeah, no GM is perfect. It is a tough business. I do wish that he would finally add some players alongside Pick and Raji, and Matthews for that matter. It is almost like he's hunting through the FA scrap heap and late round picks hoping for a miracle. Or is he? What exactly is he looking for?

We need some big time talent added to our D, and the draft alone will not do it.
nerdmann  
#42 Posted : Monday, March 4, 2013 10:26:04 AM(UTC)
What's with all the Brad Jones hate? Dude's our only LB who can really cover. He's an upgrade over Hawk, imo.

Now I've been as critical of Hawk as anyone, but let's keep in mind, the DL is a bit weak. The job of a 3-4 DL is to keep blockers off your LBs, so the LBs can make plays. I wouldn't necessarily say that's been happening consistently.

If we can stack the DL, I think it might help Hawk and Bishop look better.

But I still think the biggest key is having quality depth at OLB.
wpr  
#43 Posted : Monday, March 4, 2013 10:31:45 AM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
What's with all the Brad Jones hate? Dude's our only LB who can really cover. He's an upgrade over Hawk, imo.

Now I've been as critical of Hawk as anyone, but let's keep in mind, the DL is a bit weak. The job of a 3-4 DL is to keep blockers off your LBs, so the LBs can make plays. I wouldn't necessarily say that's been happening consistently.

If we can stack the DL, I think it might help Hawk and Bishop look better.

But I still think the biggest key is having quality depth at OLB.


Wow. Ted and Mike are so stupid. They have been sticking Hawk out there play after play and game after game while leaving Jones to rot on the bench. "What the hell is going on out there?" They don't deserve to be a part of the team if they miss something as simple as this.

Let's make nerdmann GM and HC.
Yerko  
#44 Posted : Monday, March 4, 2013 10:39:49 AM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
What's with all the Brad Jones hate? Dude's our only LB who can really cover. He's an upgrade over Hawk, imo.


Disagree.

Please explain.
play2win  
#45 Posted : Monday, March 4, 2013 10:41:17 AM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
What's with all the Brad Jones hate? Dude's our only LB who can really cover. He's an upgrade over Hawk, imo.

Now I've been as critical of Hawk as anyone, but let's keep in mind, the DL is a bit weak. The job of a 3-4 DL is to keep blockers off your LBs, so the LBs can make plays. I wouldn't necessarily say that's been happening consistently.

If we can stack the DL, I think it might help Hawk and Bishop look better.

But I still think the biggest key is having quality depth at OLB.


I don't hate Brad Jones, and I thought last season was his best in a Packers uniform. I just think we need better talent all around at LB outside of Matthews. Jones is not one of those true ILB types. He was chosen as more of an edge rusher in the end of the 2009 draft. He did next to nothing in 2011, but played well on STs. Yes, he could improve beyond what he did in 2012.

I'm just thinking we need to be more formidable. If you have an edge rusher type filling the middle of your D.... I doubt that is what we are after in terms of improving. Our run stopping was abysmal, this after not being able to stop the pass at all the previous season. We gave up epic rushing yards last season with Hawk and Jones in the middle. I'm not saying it is all their fault. Raji looked to have regressed. CJ Wilson was just OK. Pickett was our best DL. Worthy appeared to struggle. Neal seemed inconsistent, but he flashed some promise. Hawk's play was improved last season too in my eyes. But, we need upgrades to dominant football players at both of those positions, and many others.

Your point about the DL and how their play affects the LBs is well taken. I thought, overall, our DL had another down year, making it two in a row. Better than 2011, but not by a whole lot. That down play did nothing for our LBs. Surround some of our current players with better players, and we might see some real improvement. We need at least a top LB and DL added.

FWIW, here is a little bit on Jones possibly being sought by NYG: http://www.bigblueview.c...brad-jones-mlb-green-bay
nerdmann  
#46 Posted : Monday, March 4, 2013 11:38:13 AM(UTC)
Yerko said: Go to Quoted Post
Disagree.

Please explain.


Hawk is the type of LB who is losing relevance in the NFL right now. He's not a guy who's gonna cover a TE or RB down the seam or out into the flat. He's a guy who's gonna come up and stuff the run. He will also occasionally blitz and not get home.

The fact that he never hits anyone BEHIND the LoS and also usually gets dragged for about 3-5 yards aside, he's just not the type of ILB that is needed in today's NFL. The fact is, the rules (and referee calls) in today's NFL FAVOR THE PASSING GAME. In Lombardi's day, Hawk would probably be an important part of your team. Not so today.

As for Jones, the dude can turn and run. He's never gonna hit somebody like Dez Bishop lit up Apete a few years ago, but I'd put him on a TE in coverage. Dude came on and exceeded expectations.
nerdmann  
#47 Posted : Monday, March 4, 2013 11:39:37 AM(UTC)
wpr said: Go to Quoted Post
Wow. Ted and Mike are so stupid. They have been sticking Hawk out there play after play and game after game while leaving Jones to rot on the bench. "What the hell is going on out there?" They don't deserve to be a part of the team if they miss something as simple as this.

Let's make nerdmann GM and HC.


Your words to God's ears.
QCHuskerFan  
#48 Posted : Monday, March 4, 2013 12:44:03 PM(UTC)
play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
touche. Well done my friend! [laughing]

Yeah, no GM is perfect. It is a tough business. I do wish that he would finally add some players alongside Pick and Raji, and Matthews for that matter. It is almost like he's hunting through the FA scrap heap and late round picks hoping for a miracle. Or is he? What exactly is he looking for?

We need some big time talent added to our D, and the draft alone will not do it.


Who was our 1st rd pick last year? We had 2 2nd rd picks. How'd they do? The top 5 picks were all on D and all made an impact. They weren't all Pro Bowl caliber players but they were rookies. They need a little patience.

But don't say that he is looking to late round picks for miracles.
play2win  
#49 Posted : Monday, March 4, 2013 12:59:50 PM(UTC)
QCHuskerFan said: Go to Quoted Post
Who was our 1st rd pick last year? We had 2 2nd rd picks. How'd they do? The top 5 picks were all on D and all made an impact. They weren't all Pro Bowl caliber players but they were rookies. They need a little patience.

But don't say that he is looking to late round picks for miracles.


Dude, he needs to do more than draft players and hope they can start and make a significant impact. A GM should be more than a glorified draft scout. Make some trades. Sign some FAs. Make the team better.
PackFanWithTwins  
#50 Posted : Monday, March 4, 2013 1:09:05 PM(UTC)
I think the positions Hawk has played, and how the team has used him has hurt his marketability. When he was drafted at #5, he was said to be the safest pick in the draft, blue collar. He hasn't been asked to be the playmaker. He has been asked to be guy the is there in case the playmaker, misses. Hawk is asked to be the lead blitzer who frees up others. When there are stretch plays to the opposite side, you see Bishop or Barnett before him, trying to slip past the lead blockers to make the tackle for loss. Which sometimes workes and sometimes doesn't. When it works it is great, when it doesn't, it usually results in a bigger gain because the blockers are still there. When plays come Hawks way, he will take out the blockers so others can make the tackle. It doesn't produce the big loss, but it usually doesn't result in big gains either.

In coverage, I am not sure what people expect. Most of the time, when his guy gets the ball, Hawk is on him immediately for the tackle. In most cases, they are not plays where he could do anything to prevent the pass. They are TE dragging across the field in front of him. He could PI or hold and stop the catch but that doesn't help. No he isn't going to be able to run downfield with Vernon Davis, neither are any of the other LBers we have including Clay. Our other LBers are faster and better in coverage than AJ, ok so he only plays when there is a running threat. He may be the worst in coverage of our MLBers. He is also the best run defender of them. Neither Bishop or Smith could replace Hawk, Neither could Barnett. they are different types of players. Jones, might be able to, he has the size, not sure about the discipline.

That being said. I think our best option is to restructure AJ, and Sign Jones. I like them playing together. Jones is bigger and faster than both Bishop and Smith. Let Jones be the full time ILB with Hawk on the backside to protect.
QCHuskerFan  
#51 Posted : Monday, March 4, 2013 3:33:07 PM(UTC)
play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
Dude, he needs to do more than draft players and hope they can start and make a significant impact. A GM should be more than a glorified draft scout. Make some trades. Sign some FAs. Make the team better.


So he should throw big money at a player someone else has decided isn't worth it and 'hope they can start and make a significant impact'?

Last year he signed Cedric Benson, Jeff Saturday, Ryan Grant, Anthony Hargrove, Daniel Muir. Everyone of them was someone else's rejects. How did that work out?

Or should we ignore reality and just pretend that there is an All-Pro starting DE FA that is waiting to sign with the Packers for $450,000/ year on a 10 yr, no bonus contract? By all means, he should sign that one.

Or we could trade Andrew Datko for JJ Watt. Who wouldn't want to make that trade? Well, besides the Texans...

Using your language, who is the free agent that is guaranteed to 'start and make an impact' for the Packers that is not going to break the bank? Because if they are going to break the bank, I'm not interested.



nerdmann  
#52 Posted : Monday, March 4, 2013 3:46:18 PM(UTC)
QCHuskerFan said: Go to Quoted Post
So he should throw big money at a player someone else has decided isn't worth it and 'hope they can start and make a significant impact'?

Last year he signed Cedric Benson, Jeff Saturday, Ryan Grant, Anthony Hargrove, Daniel Muir. Everyone of them was someone else's rejects. How did that work out?

Or should we ignore reality and just pretend that there is an All-Pro starting DE FA that is waiting to sign with the Packers for $450,000/ year on a 10 yr, no bonus contract? By all means, he should sign that one.

Or we could trade Andrew Datko for JJ Watt. Who wouldn't want to make that trade? Well, besides the Texans...

Using your language, who is the free agent that is guaranteed to 'start and make an impact' for the Packers that is not going to break the bank? Because if they are going to break the bank, I'm not interested.





Ted also signed a free agent named Don Barclay who worked out pretty decently.
macbob  
#53 Posted : Monday, March 4, 2013 9:20:56 PM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
The fact that he never hits anyone BEHIND the LoS


Nerdmann--this is not aimed at you. There are a lot of similar comments out there. I'm not understanding all of the emnity aimed AJ's way.

Looking at the 2012 stats:

Only 3 guys had more sacks on the team than AJ last year.

AJ led the team in tackles for a loss and was 2nd on the team with sacks + tackles for a loss:

CMIII...13...5...18
AJ......3....6...9
Jones...2....4...6

AJ was second in tackles (behind Burnett) and WAY ahead of the 3rd guy.

The fact that Brad Jones ranked 3rd on the team in sacks + tackles for a loss (and only had 6 of those plays) says something pretty damning about the defense.

But the numbers would lead me to believe that AJ was NOT the problem on defense.

I agree (and have previously stated) that for his production I think he's not worth the contract. But that doesn't make him a bad player, just an overpaid player.
nerdmann  
#54 Posted : Monday, March 4, 2013 10:50:36 PM(UTC)
macbob said: Go to Quoted Post
Nerdmann--this is not aimed at you. There are a lot of similar comments out there. I'm not understanding all of the emnity aimed AJ's way.

Looking at the 2012 stats:

Only 3 guys had more sacks on the team than AJ last year.

AJ led the team in tackles for a loss and was 2nd on the team with sacks + tackles for a loss:

CMIII...13...5...18
AJ......3....6...9
Jones...2....4...6

AJ was second in tackles (behind Burnett) and WAY ahead of the 3rd guy.

The fact that Brad Jones ranked 3rd on the team in sacks + tackles for a loss (and only had 6 of those plays) says something pretty damning about the defense.

But the numbers would lead me to believe that AJ was NOT the problem on defense.

I agree (and have previously stated) that for his production I think he's not worth the contract. But that doesn't make him a bad player, just an overpaid player.


This is true, and he also might look better with some bigger butts in front of him.

Still...
play2win  
#55 Posted : Tuesday, March 5, 2013 6:56:26 AM(UTC)
I would say AJ Hawk would benefit from added talent at OLB, NT, DE, DT. The guy is a good, solid LB, but just not in the great category. The uproar is really all about how much he is being paid, because the contract lacks value.

People say we shouldn't pay top dollar to FAs. Well, we pay top dollar to both Hawk and Finley. That, to me, is crazy. Neither player merits top pay at his position against those in the rest of the NFL. I'd rather cut both players loose and pay for players like Dashon Goldson S from SF, Osi Umenyiora DE from NYG, Alan Branch NT from SEA. Maybe Cliff Avril DE from DET.
QCHuskerFan  
#56 Posted : Tuesday, March 5, 2013 12:29:49 PM(UTC)
play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
I would say AJ Hawk would benefit from added talent at OLB, NT, DE, DT. The guy is a good, solid LB, but just not in the great category. The uproar is really all about how much he is being paid, because the contract lacks value.

People say we shouldn't pay top dollar to FAs. Well, we pay top dollar to both Hawk and Finley. That, to me, is crazy. Neither player merits top pay at his position against those in the rest of the NFL. I'd rather cut both players loose and pay for players like Dashon Goldson S from SF, Osi Umenyiora DE from NYG, Alan Branch NT from SEA. Maybe Cliff Avril DE from DET.


Goldson- Good player. Sign him and turn your back on the safeties drafted the last 2 years.
Osi Umenyiora- Perfect example of a used up, old player that has minimal value but is available in FA. Jeff Saturday, anyone? Let's not forget he is a 4-3 DE and doesn't fit in GB's defensive scheme.
Alan Branch, NT- He has had a couple good years in Seattle after a poor 4 years in AZ. But if we sign him, it ignores the DE issue and gives us another body at NT, which is a strength compared to DE. So more salary at a position that is not the biggest weakness. So we are signing a backup to Raji and expecting impact from that?
Cliff Avril- Another DE from a 4-3. Not strong against the run. So other than that he is perfect for us. We need more DL that aren't strong against the run...

Play2 Win,
I am not trying to pointedly criticize you. I am just trying to get the point across to everyone that FA is not the promised land. Players available typically have major flaws and/ or don't fit what your team is doing.
play2win  
#57 Posted : Tuesday, March 5, 2013 12:37:51 PM(UTC)
We need players like Branch and Goldson. Need. Must have. That is my opinion. It is time we added some top quality veterans to our team in GB. Chris Canty wouldn't hurt either. I also believe Umenyiora would be able to play DE in a 3-4. You obviously don't. That is fine.

BTW, I agree on Avril, but if they feel the need to bring him in I wouldn't complain. Doesn't seem a fit though.

There are a bunch of players out there who could help us. I guess Q that I am just tired of these low, low, low level FAs that Ted signs that really go nowhere. Most get cut before the first game of the season.

I really thought we needed some balance after the 2011 season, being one of the youngest teams, again. Had we had some balance, we might have competed a bit better. You know, those games that can seem larger than life. First game of the season v. SF. Then getting shell shocked when we had no business being so in SEA. NYG comes to mind. Playoffs...

Seems a veteran S, especially a really good one like Goldson would be perfect. Same with a vet NT to jump in and rotate through at NT with Raji and Pickett.

All I know is Ted has proven through the last two years that all of these needs cannot be met through the draft alone. They just can't. We need some vets. Good ones.
DakotaT  
#58 Posted : Tuesday, March 5, 2013 6:20:43 PM(UTC)
All I know is that we are paying fillet mignon prices for Hawk's marinaded sirloin. If that sits all right with some of you cause you don't know any better, or you root for whoever the Packers put on the field; so be it. Hawk has us over a barrell this year. He should probably volunteer to restructure, but that would be a humility move most people don't have the character for.

We need a major upgrade at linebacker. You can't play the 3-4 with mediocre linebackers.
buckeyepackfan  
#59 Posted : Tuesday, March 5, 2013 6:26:06 PM(UTC)
DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
All I know is that we are paying fillet mignon prices for Hawk's marinaded sirloin. If that sits all right with some of you cause you don't know any better, or you root for whoever the Packers put on the field; so be it. Hawk has us over a barrell this year. He should probably volunteer to restructure, but that would be a humility move most people don't have the character for.

We need a major upgrade at linebacker. You can't play the 3-4 with mediocre linebackers.


WHOA WHOA WHOA Mr. "this is a business". Goes both ways buddy.

Just another futile attempt by you to make A.J. Hawk out to be the bad guy.

It wasn't Hawk who stormed into Ted Thompsons office demanding to be paid.

Try to remember(the facts) Ted released Hawk one day, then signed him the next day.

I guess that would mean Ted and A.J. and his agent met and dicussed the situation at the time and decided what was best for The Green Bay Packers and A.J. Hawk.

Now I haven't heard or read one thing about Ted going to Hawk or his agent to talk about a restructure.

It's the GM's job to initiate such an action, it's not the players responsibility.

Now you're questioning A.J. Hawks character???????

What a joke you have become on this subject.

[horse] [horse] [horse] [horse] [horse] [horse] [horse] [horse] [horse] [horse] [horse]
[roflmao] [roflmao] [roflmao] [roflmao] [roflmao] [roflmao] [roflmao] [roflmao] [roflmao]
DakotaT  
#60 Posted : Tuesday, March 5, 2013 8:59:29 PM(UTC)
buckeyepackfan said: Go to Quoted Post
WHOA WHOA WHOA Mr. "this is a business". Goes both ways buddy.

Just another futile attempt by you to make A.J. Hawk out to be the bad guy.

It wasn't Hawk who stormed into Ted Thompsons office demanding to be paid.

Try to remember(the facts) Ted released Hawk one day, then signed him the next day.

I guess that would mean Ted and A.J. and his agent met and dicussed the situation at the time and decided what was best for The Green Bay Packers and A.J. Hawk.

Now I haven't heard or read one thing about Ted going to Hawk or his agent to talk about a restructure.

It's the GM's job to initiate such an action, it's not the players responsibility.

Now you're questioning A.J. Hawks character???????

What a joke you have become on this subject.

[horse] [horse] [horse] [horse] [horse] [horse] [horse] [horse] [horse] [horse] [horse]
[roflmao] [roflmao] [roflmao] [roflmao] [roflmao] [roflmao] [roflmao] [roflmao] [roflmao]


I love the way you interpret my posts - you're the only one to interpret them that way which makes you special I guess. I didn't say anything about AJ's character. I said it would take special character to volunteer to take a pay cut, and it would be shrewd move by Hawk.

It's funny you didn't learn anything from the beatdown you took from other posters on this topic the other day. It was thoroughly enjoyable on my end, and I didn't have to utter a post.
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